Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

I agree each side should be allowed to choose their own guarantor country.

Better proposal- the one side to decide the guarantor for the other!!!!

[georgios100]

Why do you GCs find it difficult to understand that you are not trusted? Thats why guarantees are necessary.

Why do you Cyprus Turks find it difficult to understand that Turkey is not trusted? That's why Russia's guarantee, and intervention rights in Turkey, are necessary.

And who is going to guarantee that Russia will not misuse her guarantee rights in Turkey...

Hi Bir,

I am off the topic with Russia as a guarantor...

Since you are one of the better TC posters on CF, I would like to ask you this:

Why the TCs don't trust the EU to guarantee the peace in Cyprus via a special force to be assign on the island comprised of several EU members?

Please try to provide me a reasonable explanation. The way that I see it, Cyprus is European land now, so who else can do a better job than the Europeans themselves, protecting their own land? I don't think an EU force will be bias against either community.

Georgios100

Georgio,the answer lies in the recent past...During the dark years between 63-74 the TCs were essentially left to survive whichever way they could...Not even Turkey came to their aid physically...Then in 1974 when the coup happened and the murdering thug Sampson was declared President,the TCs were afraid of the worst...They were sure that had Sampson the time to consolidate his rule,the TCs would be his next target,and he would not be taking any prisoners...Ecevit,the Turkish PM at the time, flew to England and tried to convince them they should have a joint Turkish-English intervention to restore the independence and sovereignty of the RoC...The Brits didn't want to have anything to do with it...Hence the unilateral Turkish action followed...Everything that happened since 1974(non-recognition by the UN,the isolation and the embargoes etc) reinforced the TC belief that they have only ONE friend in this world and that is Turkey...That is why they will not trust anybody else with their lives...

Surely, history can explain your trust in Turkey, fair enough.

Today, the TC community wants to join the EU and voted "YES" during the 2004 referendum. By voting "YES", the TC community was making a giant leap of faith towards the EU, distancing it self from Turkey. I am sure EU wants the Turkish troops out of Cyprus. Having said that, Turkey can always invade, intervene again, regardless if Turkey is assigned as a guarantor or not. Nobody can be sure of that.

Implementing what ever solution is found is not easy. Security will always be an issue. Hardliners from both sides will not rest. Stupid hostilities can erupt, sometimes without warning. GCs & TCs must realize, we need someone to keep us from fighting again, stop dreaming we can live in peace.

We need boots on the ground, neutral and unbiased. Neither Turkey, Greece, or England should qualify, the reasons are obvious.

Just wondering how is Christofias-Talat looking at the security issue...perhaps a gradual withdraw over a number of years... I don't know.

Georgios100

[YFred]

Why do you GCs find it difficult to understand that you are not trusted? Thats why guarantees are necessary.

Why do you Cyprus Turks find it difficult to understand that Turkey is not trusted? That's why Russia's guarantee, and intervention rights in Turkey, are necessary.

And who is going to guarantee that Russia will not misuse her guarantee rights in Turkey...

Hi Bir,

I am off the topic with Russia as a guarantor...

Since you are one of the better TC posters on CF, I would like to ask you this:

Why the TCs don't trust the EU to guarantee the peace in Cyprus via a special force to be assign on the island comprised of several EU members?

Please try to provide me a reasonable explanation. The way that I see it, Cyprus is European land now, so who else can do a better job than the Europeans themselves, protecting their own land? I don't think an EU force will be bias against either community.

Georgios100

Georgio,the answer lies in the recent past...During the dark years between 63-74 the TCs were essentially left to survive whichever way they could...Not even Turkey came to their aid physically...Then in 1974 when the coup happened and the murdering thug Sampson was declared President,the TCs were afraid of the worst...They were sure that had Sampson the time to consolidate his rule,the TCs would be his next target,and he would not be taking any prisoners...Ecevit,the Turkish PM at the time, flew to England and tried to convince them they should have a joint Turkish-English intervention to restore the independence and sovereignty of the RoC...The Brits didn't want to have anything to do with it...Hence the unilateral Turkish action followed...Everything that happened since 1974(non-recognition by the UN,the isolation and the embargoes etc) reinforced the TC belief that they have only ONE friend in this world and that is Turkey...That is why they will not trust anybody else with their lives...

Surely, history can explain your trust in Turkey, fair enough.

Today, the TC community wants to join the EU and voted "YES" during the 2004 referendum. By voting "YES", the TC community was making a giant leap of faith towards the EU, distancing it self from Turkey. I am sure EU wants the Turkish troops out of Cyprus. Having said that, Turkey can always invade, intervene again, regardless if Turkey is assigned as a guarantor or not. Nobody can be sure of that.

Implementing what ever solution is found is not easy. Security will always be an issue. Hardliners from both sides will not rest. Stupid hostilities can erupt, sometimes without warning. GCs & TCs must realize, we need someone to keep us from fighting again, stop dreaming we can live in peace.

We need boots on the ground, neutral and unbiased. Neither Turkey, Greece, or England should qualify, the reasons are obvious.

Just wondering how is Christofias-Talat looking at the security issue...perhaps a gradual withdraw over a number of years... I don't know.

Georgios100

If GCs as a nation have no intention of attacking the TCs, what is their fear? The best guarantee the GCs have is to control their extreme bastards so they do not attcak the TCs. That way they protect themselves. If they can't guarantee that, than that's when Turkey comes in. If they have another sampson as president, I would not want to explain to the next generation of TCs why we let the guarantorship slip.
It's all very well people here saying they are not going to attack. World in a dangerous place and insurance against future risks is something we need. When we insure , we choose our insurer, becasue we want them to be there when needed.
What is this obsessive pre-occupation with the GCs wanting to control TCs and their guarantor. Get your furking guarantor for yourselvs and we'll have ours. Simple ain it? You trust yours and we'll trust ours. Where does it say we have to have the same?:twisted:

[Malapapa]

If GCs as a nation have no intention of attacking the TCs, what is their fear? The best guarantee the GCs have is to control their extreme bastards so they do not attcak the TCs. That way they protect themselves. If they can't guarantee that, than that's when Turkey comes in. If they have another sampson as president, I would not want to explain to the next generation of TCs why we let the guarantorship slip.
What is this obsessive pre-occupation with the GCs wanting to control TCs and their guarantor. Get your furking guarantor for yourselvs and we'll have ours. Simple ain it? You trust yours and we'll trust ours. Where does it say we have to have the same?:twisted:

If Turkey as a nation have no intention of attacking Cyprus, what is their fear? The best guarantee Turkey have is to control their extreme bastards so they do not attack Cyprus. That way they protect themselves. If they can't guarantee that, than that's when Russia comes in. If they have another Attila operation, I would not want to explain to the next generation of Cypriots why we let the guarantorship slip.
What is this obsessive pre-occupation with Cyprus Turks wanting to control all other Cypriots and their Russian guarantor? Our guarantor can have furking intervention rights in Turkey and yours can have furking intervention rights in Cyprus. Simple ain it? You trust yours and we'll trust ours. Where does it say we have to have the same arrangement?:twisted:

[YFred]

If GCs as a nation have no intention of attacking the TCs, what is their fear? The best guarantee the GCs have is to control their extreme bastards so they do not attcak the TCs. That way they protect themselves. If they can't guarantee that, than that's when Turkey comes in. If they have another sampson as president, I would not want to explain to the next generation of TCs why we let the guarantorship slip.
What is this obsessive pre-occupation with the GCs wanting to control TCs and their guarantor. Get your furking guarantor for yourselvs and we'll have ours. Simple ain it? You trust yours and we'll trust ours. Where does it say we have to have the same?:twisted:

If Turkey as a nation have no intention of attacking Cyprus, what is their fear? The best guarantee Turkey have is to control their extreme bastards so they do not attack Cyprus. That way they protect themselves. If they can't guarantee that, than that's when Russia comes in. If they have another Attila operation, I would not want to explain to the next generation of Cypriots why we let the guarantorship slip.
What is this obsessive pre-occupation with Cyprus Turks wanting to control all other Cypriots and their Russian guarantor? Our guarantor can have furking intervention rights in Turkey and yours can have furking intervention rights in Cyprus. Simple ain it? You trust yours and we'll trust ours. Where does it say we have to have the same arrangement?:twisted:

Ma nomizzo ehases da prilliuthgasu bale.

[Malapapa]

If GCs as a nation have no intention of attacking the TCs, what is their fear? The best guarantee the GCs have is to control their extreme bastards so they do not attcak the TCs. That way they protect themselves. If they can't guarantee that, than that's when Turkey comes in. If they have another sampson as president, I would not want to explain to the next generation of TCs why we let the guarantorship slip.
What is this obsessive pre-occupation with the GCs wanting to control TCs and their guarantor. Get your furking guarantor for yourselvs and we'll have ours. Simple ain it? You trust yours and we'll trust ours. Where does it say we have to have the same?:twisted:

If Turkey as a nation have no intention of attacking Cyprus, what is their fear? The best guarantee Turkey have is to control their extreme bastards so they do not attack Cyprus. That way they protect themselves. If they can't guarantee that, than that's when Russia comes in. If they have another Attila operation, I would not want to explain to the next generation of Cypriots why we let the guarantorship slip.
What is this obsessive pre-occupation with Cyprus Turks wanting to control all other Cypriots and their Russian guarantor? Our guarantor can have furking intervention rights in Turkey and yours can have furking intervention rights in Cyprus. Simple ain it? You trust yours and we'll trust ours. Where does it say we have to have the same arrangement?:twisted:

Ma nomizzo ehases da prilliuthgasu bale.

Ah, so when you insist on Turkish intervention rights in Cyprus, you're being sane, but when I insist on Russian intervention rights in Turkey, I'm losing my marbles. The principle is exactly the same.

[Khan]

Turkey - being so close to Cyprus - has a strategic imperative to intervene, Russia or China does not have such an imperative. So even if the GC community were to appoint these as their guarantors it would be a mistake since they would be worthless protectors.

[Malapapa]

Turkey - being so close to Cyprus - has a strategic imperative to intervene, Russia or China does not have such an imperative. So even if the GC community were to appoint these as their guarantors it would be a mistake since they would be worthless protectors.

What's a strategic imperative? And Russia is very close to Turkey.

[Khan]

It means Cyprus is strategically important to Turkey, important for its security on the southern flank. Cyprus has no such strategic significance for Russia or China, and therefore they will not spend billions of dollars to launch an invasion to come protect you.

[Malapapa]

It means Cyprus is strategically important to Turkey, important for its security on the southern flank.

I see. So that's why the Turks of Cyprus insist on Turkey having intervention rights on the island. So Turkey can enter at will, to secure its southern flank.

Cyprus has no such strategic significance for Russia or China, and therefore they will not spend billions of dollars to launch an invasion to come protect you.

But they'd only have to launch such an invasion in the unlikely event Turkey 'intervened' in Cyprus.

An insurance premium could be paid to Russia, to protect Cyprus's northern flank from any foreign aggression. Certainly Turkey can appreciate this need for security.