Cyprus-Forum.com

[runaway]

Here is the genocide: 1992 Hocalı Massacre

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

Here is the genocide: 1992 Hocalı Massacre

Timed to the anniversary of Sumgait pogroms – massacres of Armenians in the Azerbaijani Sumgait between 26 and 28 February 1988, Azerbaijan held events in memory of tragic events in Khojalu of 1992 on 26 February, Sergei Zvyagin wrote in his article "Khodjalu: truth and fiction” in Nezavisimaya Gazeta.

"The very definition of "Khojalu events" of February 1992 is not correct. During suppression of firing points near the Khojalu village there were virtually no casualties among civilians in the village, since they had the opportunity to leave the village via the corridor created by Karabakh for the unarmed civilian population. The availability of that corridor never been questioned by observers, including Azerbaijan.

Nearly a hundred dead residents Khojalu were found at 11-12 km from the village, on the field between the Armenian village Nakhichevanik, situated at the administrative border with the former Aghdam region of Azerbaijan SSR, and the Azerbaijani positions near Aghdam. That area then was fully controlled by the National Front of Azerbaijan (NFA), being in opposition to pro-communist President Mutalibov.

Moreover, a day after journalists arrived at this place, including foreign ones, some people again returned to the field to desecrate some corpses before the visit of foreign media representatives," Zvyagin wrote.

"The massacre in Khojaly can be included in the "track record" of the Azerbaijani militants," the newspaper wrote. It pursued two aims: firstly, to remove from the political arena Ayaz Mutalibov, unnecessary after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and secondly, to obtain a pretext to start supported by Ankara a noisy campaign on charging the Armenians in the inhuman methods of warfare.

"Today the promotion of "Khojali project" has different political and ideological goals, while the means have remained unchanged: the lies and falsification.

The massacre of Khojalu inhabitants near Aghdam is the same crime of Azerbaijani national chauvinism, as pogroms of Armenians in Sumgait in February 1988, in Baku in January 1990, the massacre in the Karabakh village of Maraga in April 1992.

Unfortunately, these events have not received adequate legal, political and moral assessment so far that leads to the cynical distortion of reality in advocacy for official Baku," Sergei Zvyagin said.

The Sumgait pogroms (also known as the Sumgait Massacre or February Events) was an Azeri-led pogroms of the Armenian population of Azerbaijani Sumgait from 26 to 29 February 1988. On February 27, 1988, large mobs made up of Azeris formed into groups that went on to attack and killed Armenians both on the streets and in their apartments. Sumgait pogroms lasted three days and were accompanied by widespread violence, looting and murder. Sumgait events signaled the beginning of another unprecedented wave of anti-Armenian persecutions and violence in Azerbaijan, a new genocide. The victims of this of anti-Armenian persecutions and violence were Armenians of Kirovabad, Kazakhs, Khanlar, Dashkesan, Mingechaur, Baku and other towns and villages of Azerbaijan. This has led to floods of refugees from Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia.

[DTA]

I have a very good Turkish friend in the US, who couple of years ago accepted the slaughter of the Armenians by then the Ottomans, but he did not want to call it genocide, just because that use of the word was only created after WWII, therefore, since the word "Genocide" was not in our vocabulary at the time of this atrocities taking place, then the word Genocide should not be used today according to him.!

At that time, his wife and I rolled our eyes as if to say, .....You What.???

But does he have a point with his explanation, however.???

Hey its the undercover GC

Ok I really dont know much about this so maybe someone can answer a few questions for me:

1 what was the population (numbers) of armenians in the ottoman empire the last time a census was taken before WW1

2. the Armenia diaspora now is mainly from the survivors of the 'genocide' is that right? what is the size of the diaspora population?

3. Does the figures that you correlate between one and two match up?

4. what is the proof that this was a systematic attempt to kill all the Armenians?

5. Why are the Armenian archives not open?

Do you really expect an answer from a south cypriot?

The hate peddler dares question anything with the bullshit that you post vre Homar

Hiya I know this maybe a very sensitive subject to you, but the questions that I ask are from a place of wanting to find out more not an attack in any way, could you answer them (if you want to of course)

[DTA]

I have a very good Turkish friend in the US, who couple of years ago accepted the slaughter of the Armenians by then the Ottomans, but he did not want to call it genocide, just because that use of the word was only created after WWII, therefore, since the word "Genocide" was not in our vocabulary at the time of this atrocities taking place, then the word Genocide should not be used today according to him.!

At that time, his wife and I rolled our eyes as if to say, .....You What.???

But does he have a point with his explanation, however.???

Hey its the undercover GC

Ok I really dont know much about this so maybe someone can answer a few questions for me:

1 what was the population (numbers) of armenians in the ottoman empire the last time a census was taken before WW1

2. the Armenia diaspora now is mainly from the survivors of the 'genocide' is that right? what is the size of the diaspora population?

3. Does the figures that you correlate between one and two match up?

4. what is the proof that this was a systematic attempt to kill all the Armenians?

5. Why are the Armenian archives not open?

Idiots come, Idiots go.!

It's idiots coming again.!

I hope you are not implying DTA is....

'Bilmemek ayıp değil sormamak ayıptır'.

I expected you to give a learned response Kiks.

Hey its the undercover GC

Hi Deniz,

My response to DTA was for the above statement by him.

It didn't warrant reading the rest of his post.!

My response to him still stands.!

Yadda yadda yadda!!

as does my initial impression of you!!

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

I have a very good Turkish friend in the US, who couple of years ago accepted the slaughter of the Armenians by then the Ottomans, but he did not want to call it genocide, just because that use of the word was only created after WWII, therefore, since the word "Genocide" was not in our vocabulary at the time of this atrocities taking place, then the word Genocide should not be used today according to him.!

At that time, his wife and I rolled our eyes as if to say, .....You What.???

But does he have a point with his explanation, however.???

Hey its the undercover GC

Ok I really dont know much about this so maybe someone can answer a few questions for me:

1 what was the population (numbers) of armenians in the ottoman empire the last time a census was taken before WW1

2. the Armenia diaspora now is mainly from the survivors of the 'genocide' is that right? what is the size of the diaspora population?

3. Does the figures that you correlate between one and two match up?

4. what is the proof that this was a systematic attempt to kill all the Armenians?

5. Why are the Armenian archives not open?

Do you really expect an answer from a south cypriot?

The hate peddler dares question anything with the bullshit that you post vre Homar

Hiya I know this maybe a very sensitive subject to you, but the questions that I ask are from a place of wanting to find out more not an attack in any way, could you answer them (if you want to of course)

No problem bro, I promise you I shall .

[denizaksulu]

I have a very good Turkish friend in the US, who couple of years ago accepted the slaughter of the Armenians by then the Ottomans, but he did not want to call it genocide, just because that use of the word was only created after WWII, therefore, since the word "Genocide" was not in our vocabulary at the time of this atrocities taking place, then the word Genocide should not be used today according to him.!

At that time, his wife and I rolled our eyes as if to say, .....You What.???

But does he have a point with his explanation, however.???

Hey its the undercover GC

Ok I really dont know much about this so maybe someone can answer a few questions for me:

1 what was the population (numbers) of armenians in the ottoman empire the last time a census was taken before WW1

2. the Armenia diaspora now is mainly from the survivors of the 'genocide' is that right? what is the size of the diaspora population?

3. Does the figures that you correlate between one and two match up?

4. what is the proof that this was a systematic attempt to kill all the Armenians?

5. Why are the Armenian archives not open?

Do you really expect an answer from a south cypriot?

The hate peddler dares question anything with the bullshit that you post vre Homar

Hiya I know this maybe a very sensitive subject to you, but the questions that I ask are from a place of wanting to find out more not an attack in any way, could you answer them (if you want to of course)

No problem bro, I promise you I shall .

I trust your answer to DTA will be unbiassed.

It would also be good if you did not take Runaways bait. I know he has a filthy mouth and you retaliated, but he cant help it. You can.

Regards

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

I have a very good Turkish friend in the US, who couple of years ago accepted the slaughter of the Armenians by then the Ottomans, but he did not want to call it genocide, just because that use of the word was only created after WWII, therefore, since the word "Genocide" was not in our vocabulary at the time of this atrocities taking place, then the word Genocide should not be used today according to him.!

At that time, his wife and I rolled our eyes as if to say, .....You What.???

But does he have a point with his explanation, however.???

Hey its the undercover GC

Ok I really dont know much about this so maybe someone can answer a few questions for me:

1 what was the population (numbers) of armenians in the ottoman empire the last time a census was taken before WW1

2. the Armenia diaspora now is mainly from the survivors of the 'genocide' is that right? what is the size of the diaspora population?

3. Does the figures that you correlate between one and two match up?

4. what is the proof that this was a systematic attempt to kill all the Armenians?

5. Why are the Armenian archives not open?

Do you really expect an answer from a south cypriot?

The hate peddler dares question anything with the bullshit that you post vre Homar

Hiya I know this maybe a very sensitive subject to you, but the questions that I ask are from a place of wanting to find out more not an attack in any way, could you answer them (if you want to of course)

No problem bro, I promise you I shall .

I trust your answer to DTA will be unbiassed.

It would also be good if you did not take Runaways bait. I know he has a filthy mouth and you retaliated, but he cant help it. You can.

Regards

Thanks Deniz

[denizaksulu]

I have a very good Turkish friend in the US, who couple of years ago accepted the slaughter of the Armenians by then the Ottomans, but he did not want to call it genocide, just because that use of the word was only created after WWII, therefore, since the word "Genocide" was not in our vocabulary at the time of this atrocities taking place, then the word Genocide should not be used today according to him.!

At that time, his wife and I rolled our eyes as if to say, .....You What.???

But does he have a point with his explanation, however.???

Hey its the undercover GC

Ok I really dont know much about this so maybe someone can answer a few questions for me:

1 what was the population (numbers) of armenians in the ottoman empire the last time a census was taken before WW1

2. the Armenia diaspora now is mainly from the survivors of the 'genocide' is that right? what is the size of the diaspora population?

3. Does the figures that you correlate between one and two match up?

4. what is the proof that this was a systematic attempt to kill all the Armenians?

5. Why are the Armenian archives not open?

Do you really expect an answer from a south cypriot?

The hate peddler dares question anything with the bullshit that you post vre Homar

Hiya I know this maybe a very sensitive subject to you, but the questions that I ask are from a place of wanting to find out more not an attack in any way, could you answer them (if you want to of course)

No problem bro, I promise you I shall .

I trust your answer to DTA will be unbiassed.

It would also be good if you did not take Runaways bait. I know he has a filthy mouth and you retaliated, but he cant help it. You can.

Regards

Thanks Deniz

You are welcome my Cypriot brother.

[Bananiot]

Its always the same with the nationalists. For them, only the "others" are capable of committing a genocide. In reality, any nation can do it and history has proved this many times. Even civilised and democratic nations can misbehave, given the right circumstances. The Greek army did terrible things in 1913 during the Balkan wars and later in Asia minor. The "deeds" of the Greek army are very well documented in the book "War and ethnic cleansing". The Ottoman Turks sent millions of Armenians on long marches in 1914-15 probably because they were scared that the Russian occupation army of Pontus would find support within the Armenian Christian community. This is no excuse for a genocide but, remember, even the best of us can become animals, given the right condition.

Kikapu, I believe GR gave the answer you were looking for. Your response shows that you probably missed the point I was making, but never mind, I was only having a laugh.

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

Great article, I hope it helps you. I can also post for you letters from the Austrian, Danish, Norwegian, German, Japanese, American and Russian archives if you wish well here is the first.

Kemal Ataturk A liar??? Or, Did it really happen.
In June 1926 a group of disgruntled Turks, headed by a certain Ziya Hurshid, planned to assassinate the “father of the Turkish Republic,” Mustapha Kemal. In mid_June, Kemal was scheduled to visit Izmir after an extended tour of the country. The plotters secretly assembled in that city and finalized their plan to the minutest detail. The plot was given away by one of the conspirators, and almost all of them were arrested, tried and punished. Kemal arrived in Izmir and personally took charge of the arrests. He himself interrogated a few of the prisoners, who were his former friends. The infamous Independence Tribunal was summoned from Ankara, and at the conclusion of the mock trial, fifteen conspirators were sentenced to death. Those who belonged to the former Union and Progress (Ittihad ve Terakki) Party of the Young Turks, were later tried in Ankara, found guilty and executed.

In July of the same year, a Swiss journalist, Emile Hilderbrand, interviewed Kemal, who openly blamed the Young Turks for the massacre of “millions of our Christian subjects.” The interview originally appeared in the August 1, 1926 issue of the Los Angeles Examiner. This newspaper interview is an important document, since, in the ninth paragraph, Kemal Ataturk admits the reality of the Armenian Genocide.



Kemal Promises More Hangings
of Political Antagonists in Turkey

I shall not stop until every guilty person, no matter how high his rank, has been hung from the gallows as a grim warning to all incipient plotters against the security of the Turkish Republic. Since the very hour of its reincarnation in the rejuvenated body of the Republic, our nation has endured travails no other nation has ever experienced.

When we were fighting external enemies, or enemies whom we were certain were sympathetic with foreign intriguers, nearly all of the rank and file of our population were enthusiastically, even fanatically, united to deliver the nation from the multiple foreign yokes. But no sooner had the nation proved its worth to its foreign detractors than certain elements, bred in the old school of political intrigue, began to show their claws. We were face to face with a menace to the life of the republic from two elements.

One was the group who combined religious fanaticism and ignorance with political imbecility and who, in the past, under different Sultans had come to believe that the state was an organism to be exploited through debauchery, corruption and brazen bribery for personal ends. I put the ax in the dual root of this sinister and reprehensible theory of government by destroying the Khalif and the Sultan. I sent into exile the persons in whom this theory was personified. Large numbers, adherents of this school of politics, attempted to interpret any act as atheistic, and, under the aegis of religion, began to intrigue against the life of the republic.


Sixty Leaders Hang at Dawn

In several instances in the past when, in Kurdistan and other interior regions of Anatolia, they showed a disposition to challenge the will of the republic, I crushed them with an iron hand, and for example, had over sixty of their leaders hanged at dawn.

That element had its lesson and will not again attempt to measure swords with 'me.

The second element, I am now about to deal with ruthlessly, is the group of men who in the pre_republic days were known in the world as the Committee of the Union of the Young Turks. The ranks of this element were recruited from a questionable assortment of political adventurers, half_educated progressives and men of dissolute habits. In the days when we were battling against foes from within and without, this element joined us and fought in our ranks. Yet from the early days I had misgivings as to their motives. But I wished, hoped and then prayed that once our country was redeemed from the foreign yoke, this element would mend its methods and become infused with the seal of patriotism. I soon began to realize that my hopes were doomed to be disillusioned and my prayers were [not] to be answered. I patiently waited, keeping a sharp eye on their movements.


Seditious Movements Cloaked

They formed themselves into a political opposition. I do not pretend to be a dictator, bent to suppress sincere and honest political opposition, because a republic is a misnomer when it ceases to brook criticism. But when a group of dissolute, corrupt and unscrupulous political adventurers begin to organize seditious movements under the cloak of political opposition, it becomes the sacred duty of those who are in charge of the machinery of the government to suppress it and suppress it with an exemplary ruthlessness that will prevent the eventual shedding of rivers of blood.

I am about to show these plotters that the Republic of Turkey cannot be overthrown by murderers or through their murderous designs...

These left_overs from the former Young Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the lives of millions of our Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse, from their homes and massacred, have been restive under the republican rule. They have hitherto lived on plunder, robbery and bribery and become inimical to any idea, or suggestion to enlist in useful labor and earn their living by the honest sweat of their brow.

Under the cloak of the opposition party, this element, who forced our country into the Great
War against the will of the people, who caused the shedding of rivers of blood of the Turkish
youth to satisfy the criminal ambition of Enver Pasha, has, in a cowardly fashion, intrigued against my life, as well as the lives of the members of my cabinet.

I would have more respect for them had they planned an armed revolution, taking the field in a manly fashion, to overthrow my government. But being conscious of the fact that they could
not muster out even one regiment to give battle to the zealous adherents to, and upholders of, the glorious republic, they have resorted to beastial methods of assassination. They have hired murderers and even debauched women to commit their murderous acts.

In the middle of June last I had planned to make a tour of the country. My itinerary was published. A group of these assassins, placed on the route of procession, were to “rain” hand grenades at the automobiles which were to carry me and my staff.

They went even further and seduced a woman who had been for years identified with my cause and who had been my loyal political friend and on occasion, even adviser. They induced this woman to accept the reprehensible assignment to present me with a bouquet which concealed a bomb that would, on my receiving it, explode and obliterate everyone in sight. This ill_advised woman deserves pity, for she was made to believe that she would thus sacrifice her own life for the good of the fatherland. I was the enemy of the nation. She will be forgiven for her part in the plot, for she conscience_stricken, confessed to the proper authorities in time for me to cancel my intended tour.

__________________

"All truth passes through three stages:

First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:15 am
Big Al
instructor



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 742




ARMENIAN CYPRIOT wrote:
Kemal Ataturk A liar??? Or, Did it really happen.
In June 1926 a group of disgruntled Turks, headed by a certain Ziya Hurshid, planned to assassinate the “father of the Turkish Republic,” Mustapha Kemal. In mid_June, Kemal was scheduled to visit Izmir after an extended tour of the country. The plotters secretly assembled in that city and finalized their plan to the minutest detail. The plot was given away by one of the conspirators, and almost all of them were arrested, tried and punished. Kemal arrived in Izmir and personally took charge of the arrests. He himself interrogated a few of the prisoners, who were his former friends. The infamous Independence Tribunal was summoned from Ankara, and at the conclusion of the mock trial, fifteen conspirators were sentenced to death. Those who belonged to the former Union and Progress (Ittihad ve Terakki) Party of the Young Turks, were later tried in Ankara, found guilty and executed.

In July of the same year, a Swiss journalist, Emile Hilderbrand, interviewed Kemal, who openly blamed the Young Turks for the massacre of “millions of our Christian subjects.” The interview originally appeared in the August 1, 1926 issue of the Los Angeles Examiner. This newspaper interview is an important document, since, in the ninth paragraph, Kemal Ataturk admits the reality of the Armenian Genocide.



Kemal Promises More Hangings
of Political Antagonists in Turkey

I shall not stop until every guilty person, no matter how high his rank, has been hung from the gallows as a grim warning to all incipient plotters against the security of the Turkish Republic. Since the very hour of its reincarnation in the rejuvenated body of the Republic, our nation has endured travails no other nation has ever experienced.

When we were fighting external enemies, or enemies whom we were certain were sympathetic with foreign intriguers, nearly all of the rank and file of our population were enthusiastically, even fanatically, united to deliver the nation from the multiple foreign yokes. But no sooner had the nation proved its worth to its foreign detractors than certain elements, bred in the old school of political intrigue, began to show their claws. We were face to face with a menace to the life of the republic from two elements.

One was the group who combined religious fanaticism and ignorance with political imbecility and who, in the past, under different Sultans had come to believe that the state was an organism to be exploited through debauchery, corruption and brazen bribery for personal ends. I put the ax in the dual root of this sinister and reprehensible theory of government by destroying the Khalif and the Sultan. I sent into exile the persons in whom this theory was personified. Large numbers, adherents of this school of politics, attempted to interpret any act as atheistic, and, under the aegis of religion, began to intrigue against the life of the republic.


Sixty Leaders Hang at Dawn

In several instances in the past when, in Kurdistan and other interior regions of Anatolia, they showed a disposition to challenge the will of the republic, I crushed them with an iron hand, and for example, had over sixty of their leaders hanged at dawn.

That element had its lesson and will not again attempt to measure swords with 'me.

The second element, I am now about to deal with ruthlessly, is the group of men who in the pre_republic days were known in the world as the Committee of the Union of the Young Turks. The ranks of this element were recruited from a questionable assortment of political adventurers, half_educated progressives and men of dissolute habits. In the days when we were battling against foes from within and without, this element joined us and fought in our ranks. Yet from the early days I had misgivings as to their motives. But I wished, hoped and then prayed that once our country was redeemed from the foreign yoke, this element would mend its methods and become infused with the seal of patriotism. I soon began to realize that my hopes were doomed to be disillusioned and my prayers were [not] to be answered. I patiently waited, keeping a sharp eye on their movements.


Seditious Movements Cloaked

They formed themselves into a political opposition. I do not pretend to be a dictator, bent to suppress sincere and honest political opposition, because a republic is a misnomer when it ceases to brook criticism. But when a group of dissolute, corrupt and unscrupulous political adventurers begin to organize seditious movements under the cloak of political opposition, it becomes the sacred duty of those who are in charge of the machinery of the government to suppress it and suppress it with an exemplary ruthlessness that will prevent the eventual shedding of rivers of blood.

I am about to show these plotters that the Republic of Turkey cannot be overthrown by murderers or through their murderous designs...

These left_overs from the former Young Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the lives of millions of our Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse, from their homes and massacred, have been restive under the republican rule. They have hitherto lived on plunder, robbery and bribery and become inimical to any idea, or suggestion to enlist in useful labor and earn their living by the honest sweat of their brow.

Under the cloak of the opposition party, this element, who forced our country into the Great
War against the will of the people, who caused the shedding of rivers of blood of the Turkish
youth to satisfy the criminal ambition of Enver Pasha, has, in a cowardly fashion, intrigued against my life, as well as the lives of the members of my cabinet.

I would have more respect for them had they planned an armed revolution, taking the field in a manly fashion, to overthrow my government. But being conscious of the fact that they could
not muster out even one regiment to give battle to the zealous adherents to, and upholders of, the glorious republic, they have resorted to beastial methods of assassination. They have hired murderers and even debauched women to commit their murderous acts.

In the middle of June last I had planned to make a tour of the country. My itinerary was published. A group of these assassins, placed on the route of procession, were to “rain” hand grenades at the automobiles which were to carry me and my staff.

They went even further and seduced a woman who had been for years identified with my cause and who had been my loyal political friend and on occasion, even adviser. They induced this woman to accept the reprehensible assignment to present me with a bouquet which concealed a bomb that would, on my receiving it, explode and obliterate everyone in sight. This ill_advised woman deserves pity, for she was made to believe that she would thus sacrifice her own life for the good of the fatherland. I was the enemy of the nation. She will be forgiven for her part in the plot, for she conscience_stricken, confessed to the proper authorities in time for me to cancel my intended tour.

__________________

"All truth passes through three stages:

First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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