Cyprus-Forum.com

[paliometoxo]

Piratis who will administer those rights?

Our guarantor.... Russia!

why russia?

[Kikapu]

Piratis who will administer those rights?

I already gave you the BBF Power sharing plan, so that's who will administer rights of all Cypriots.!

So you are selling us out to the GCs.

How so.??

By peddling your camaflouged plan of TC capitulation.

So you can't answer the question, because you know that you can't. So thanks for the proof that you can't shoot my BBF plan down with real issues, so you resort to fear instead by lies. I do admit, that my plan does not allow you to break away with the north from the Union by causing a constitutional crises by removing the MP's from the parliament if only "Turks" were elected in the north and only GCs in the south. True Federation means both north and south states will be joined at the hip together with no possibility of ever breaking away, much to your disappointment. You also have to give back 50% of the north to the south, or else, you won't have only "Turks" as MP's from the north in the parliament.! Did I miss anything.??

[Viewpoint]

We have discussed your flawed plan over and over again coming to the same conclusion that it is an opportunity which the GCs will sieze to take control of the whole island and a free hand to do as they wish. Therefore it was exposed and rejected by me as capitulation plan which in time would leave te TCs at the mercy of the GCs.

[Kikapu]

We have discussed your flawed plan over and over again coming to the same conclusion that it is an opportunity which the GCs will sieze to take control of the whole island and a free hand to do as they wish. Therefore it was exposed and rejected by me as capitulation plan which in time would leave te TCs at the mercy of the GCs.

Well, that's not true, because as an unnecessary back up safety valve plan just for your benefit to stop you from finding excuses that does not exists in my BBF plan, was to have a derogation where the growth of the GC population in the north state will be set at the same rate as the TCs population growth, so, once you have given enough land back where you will have so few GCs left in the north state since their land will now be part of the south state, the north will remain permanently "Turkish" majority, unless all the "Turks" leave the north, then you will have a problem. If that were to happen, that means that the "Turks" no longer care who represents them in the government, which would mean that, we would have gone from politics based on ethnic lines to politics based on political ideology, which is the only health way to have Democracy in anyway, so I would say to all Cypriots, Well Done.!

[Piratis]

However history can not be used as an excuse to violate the human rights of innocent people.

Indeed Piratis, indeed. So stop using history to violate the human rights of innocent people today. ALL TCs of today are innocent of crimes committed in 1571, 1878 and 1915. And ALL ordinary TCs are innocent of crimes committed in 1958, 1963, 1974, etc.


What I've just said about TCs applies to GCs. And what applies to GCs applies to Turks and Greeks. You on the other hand constantly repeat the calumny that the crime of one individual member of a 'community' merits the collective punishment of all of that community and for all time. History, for you, is a a sword to be used amok. And 'human rights', for you, does not refer to all human beings, just the ones of which you approve.

Your calumny is without question a prima facie breach of :

Article 11 Universal Declaration of Human Rights
and
Articles 6 and 7 European Convention of Human Rights

What you are suggesting regarding the sins of the fathers (if they be sins) is biblically jealous in its stupidity. It's not even medieval in its cruelty, it is barbarically pre-modern.

And where did I suggest that the human rights of innocent people should be violated based on what happened in the past??? Are you having illusions again CopperLine? I am not the one who said that TCs today should "pay the price". This is what Bir wrote about GCs.

On the contrary what I support is that all Cypriots should be allowed to have the 100% of their human and democratic rights.

This, Piratis, is one of the many occasions you issue your absurd abuses :

We forgave you after 300+ years of brutal oppression against us, and this is why we managed to live in peace for those 80 years after the Ottoman rule ended. We didn't made you "pay the price". Similarly, we are again willing to forgive you and forgive the massive crimes you are commiting today and for the last several decades, so we can again live together in peace.

The "we" refers to Piratis/GCs, and insodoing you make yourself and all GCs identical. You make yourself the voice of GCs. Then that "we" forgives "you", who are the TCs of today, for 300+ years of brutal oppression (which, by definition, the TCs of today could not have possibly committed) against "us" (the "us" being all GCs,not just Piratis, not just GCs of today, but all GCs for 300+ years. And so it goes on....... we Piratis/GCs accuse you TCs today and forever of crimes that we allege that you committed (though you were not even born) and it is only us GCs who can forgive you TCs for these (falsely-levelled) crimes.

Yours is, Piratis, a monstrous self-serving distortion from beginning to end.

"We" and "you" is a response to comments such as these:

Let's not forget the blame is solely on your community for these sad state of affairs.

Accept your mistakes and pay the price.

I replied within the same context (communities, not individuals), but instead of asking from the TC community to "pay the price" (like your TC friends did) I talked about forgiveness. And yet you found nothing wrong with their position but you are trying to find something wrong with mine. Coincidence? Definitely not, because we all know what you are and the crimes against Cyprus that you support. You can not hide.

[BirKibrisli]

Cooperline,

The GC mindset represented here by Piratis and the many others was what made me stop and think about the whole situation...I was horrified to realise these people held us (TCs) responsible for 1571...They are still burning with anger and bitterness...The whole ENOSIS episode was about getting even...I could see the glint in Piratis' eye..."Wait till we get you on your own,then you will pay for the sins of the Ottomans..." There is nothing we can say to change this deep-rooted hatred...Another notorious Turk-hater believes we have no right or place in Cyprus...Yet another one is actively planning to blow us to Hell with his war machine...Thank heavens there are other decent,sensible GCs here who lighten the darkness of these twisted souls...But unfortunately,history has proven that it is the fanatical extremists who win the day during any inter- communal conflict...I was proven wrong,and the TC viewpoint represented by Viewpoint here was proven right...It is far too early to trust the majority of the GCs with our lives and the lives of our children...Hence the TC redlines...And the agony will continue for another few generations...

[Epiktitos]

I could see the glint in Piratis' eye..."Wait till we get you on your own,then you will pay for the sins of the Ottomans..."

The sins of the father shall be visited upon the son. Does this hold any special meaning for you?

[BirKibrisli]

I could see the glint in Piratis' eye..."Wait till we get you on your own,then you will pay for the sins of the Ottomans..."

The sins of the father shall be visited upon the son. Does this hold any special meaning for you?

Not at all...Because my Father committed no sins...He played his part protecting his people from blood-thirsty EOKA thugs in the late 50s,without having to fire one shot...Then he was out of there...
My conscience is clear..What about yours???

[Epiktitos]

.He played his part protecting his people from blood-thirsty EOKA thugs in the late 50s

Was he "just following orders"? "Trying to provide for his poor family"?

By applying irrationality anything can be rationalised.

Good luck with your conscience.

[repulsewarrior]

...my family stayed because they believed in their neighbours, many, my uncles and cousins disappeared, but that does not diminish my love for those who love as well, only the murderers that they have to live with, now, who chose this opportunity to plunder.

...and, i know that we are still friends (even with the gates closed we found ways to communicate), close to our village, our customs, and our land.

we were not "greeks"or "turks", we were farmers, we sustained ourselves, respectful and giving people, a "mixed" village according to the subjugators who came and went.

indeed, politics was a world away, even with modern devices, we did not stray, and to this day we do not forget; it is unfortunate that turkey is no stranger to denial, even the treaty of lausanne, i believe. cash has no value without Justice, i root for the displaced who like myself choose to deny the privelage of either side to dismiss the acts which left us victims. things can't go back to the way they were, facts on the ground, things cannot stay the same, but for some at least, like the citizens of Famagusta, we ask to return as communities. you don't like greeks bir, if they are like the turks i don't like then we don't like the same people, i'd bet.

...you don't even have to be cypriot to feel that way. and most importantly the Constitution for our State, should respect these Human Values, this basically is what cannot be refused. Within a Unitary State, two National Assemblies which have as components a number of constituencies: that's BBF.

cheers!

...oh and, please read my manifesto.

(thanks.)