Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

No, I accept no blame whatsoever, we are totally innocent of all that has happened since 1960.

It's funny you say that because we feel totally innocent since 1570 when something terrible happened...

Obviously Pissartists relentless piss-posts are working. So, its fine for me to be penalised for what happened 400 odd years back, if so then fuck me, I have a lot to answer for.

400 years back? Today you are illegally occupying 1/3rd of Cyprus keeping 100s of thousands of people out of their homes. Today is not "400 odd years back" is it?

You don't want to be blamed for what you are doing today and yet you want to blame us for what happened about half a century ago, even though you are the ones who started the problems back then as well (in June 1958)? How come?

When we talk about 1571 we are not talking about something that you did once 439 years ago. We are talking about what you are doing constantly - NON STOP since then and until today.

And now you are looking for excuses to continue with more of the same crimes against us in the future as well, by repeating over and over your own distorted version of a single decade that happened half a century ago!

Piratis,
Please open your ears and your eyes and your mind and listen...
The TCs of today had nothing to do with what happened in 1571...
Cyprus was captured by the Ottomans,and most of our ancestors had no choice in the matter...Nobody asked them if they wanted Cyprus invaded...And nobody asked them if they wanted to go there to settle...They were ordered to do it and they knew better not to refuse..

The Ottoman rule ended in 1878...That is 132 years ago...How long do you need to move on? How can you talk about "doing it constantly...Non Stop since then"...??? Even in Ottoman times the majority of the TC people had nothing to do with State power...They were poor farmers and tradesmen who struggled to make a living and fed their families...Why are you so blind? You must know the difference between state power and the people subjected to that power...The TCs were as much the subjects of the Ottoman state/empire power as anybody else...Would the Iraqis be right to blame the ordinary Americans for what the American government and military are doing to them??? Why are you blaming the ordinary TCs for the Ottoman rule which ended in 1878???And why are you not prepared to look at our recent history,say from WWII onwards,which is much more relevant to what is happening today??? Do you believe that if you repeat your nonsensical arguments enough time they will become valid...Get some reality check,Piratis..Do yourself and us a favour...Take a good objective look at the ENOSIS dream,and the EOKA era,and all that was done in the name of Enosis since the 1950s...Because that is why we are where we are today...And if we want to get out of this mess people like yourself will have to eat humble pie and admit that it was all mindless and pointless and self destructive...Above all it was treacherous...
Accept your mistakes and pay the price...The price is the compromises you will have to make to see Cyprus reunited...There is no other way around it...

[Get Real!]

Accept your mistakes and pay the price...

We know our mistake alright and the next time there won’t be one!

[Piratis]

No, I accept no blame whatsoever, we are totally innocent of all that has happened since 1960.

It's funny you say that because we feel totally innocent since 1570 when something terrible happened...

Obviously Pissartists relentless piss-posts are working. So, its fine for me to be penalised for what happened 400 odd years back, if so then fuck me, I have a lot to answer for.

400 years back? Today you are illegally occupying 1/3rd of Cyprus keeping 100s of thousands of people out of their homes. Today is not "400 odd years back" is it?

You don't want to be blamed for what you are doing today and yet you want to blame us for what happened about half a century ago, even though you are the ones who started the problems back then as well (in June 1958)? How come?

When we talk about 1571 we are not talking about something that you did once 439 years ago. We are talking about what you are doing constantly - NON STOP since then and until today.

And now you are looking for excuses to continue with more of the same crimes against us in the future as well, by repeating over and over your own distorted version of a single decade that happened half a century ago!

Piratis,
Please open your ears and your eyes and your mind and listen...
The TCs of today had nothing to do with what happened in 1571...
Cyprus was captured by the Ottomans,and most of our ancestors had no choice in the matter...Nobody asked them if they wanted Cyprus invaded...And nobody asked them if they wanted to go there to settle...They were ordered to do it and they knew better not to refuse..

The Ottoman rule ended in 1878...That is 132 years ago...How long do you need to move on? How can you talk about "doing it constantly...Non Stop since then"...??? Even in Ottoman times the majority of the TC people had nothing to do with State power...They were poor farmers and tradesmen who struggled to make a living and fed their families...Why are you so blind? You must know the difference between state power and the people subjected to that power...The TCs were as much the subjects of the Ottoman state/empire power as anybody else...Would the Iraqis be right to blame the ordinary Americans for what the American government and military are doing to them??? Why are you blaming the ordinary TCs for the Ottoman rule which ended in 1878???And why are you not prepared to look at our recent history,say from WWII onwards,which is much more relevant to what is happening today??? Do you believe that if you repeat your nonsensical arguments enough time they will become valid...Get some reality check,Piratis..Do yourself and us a favour...Take a good objective look at the ENOSIS dream,and the EOKA era,and all that was done in the name of Enosis since the 1950s...Because that is why we are where we are today...And if we want to get out of this mess people like yourself will have to eat humble pie and admit that it was all mindless and pointless and self destructive...Above all it was treacherous...
Accept your mistakes and pay the price...The price is the compromises you will have to make to see Cyprus reunited...There is no other way around it...

Bir, the Turks have been commiting crimes against us from the day they set their foot on our island until this very moment. We are talking about a no-stop violence and oppression, and not merely something that happened "x years ago". It is something constant.

The only time they stopped commiting crimes against us was for 80 years between 1878 and 1958. And during that time we lived together in peace. The Cypriot people during those years forgave you. They didn't demand that you had to "accept your mistakes and pay the price", otherwise we wouldn't have peace during those years either.

On the other hand, the Turks want to punish us for seeking nothing more than our freedom from foreign Imperialists. They did this in 1821:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

And they did it again in 1958, helping the British Empire this time.

But according to Bir, the blame lies not with the invaders who came here to enslave and exploit the Cypriot people, but with the Cypriot people who wanted to be free like every other Greek island!!! There would be no need for any EOKA and any armed struggled if the foreign Imperialists (Ottomans and then British) had simply allowed the Cypriot people to freely and democratically choose the destiny of their own island. You come here to oppress and exploit us, and then you blame us because we revolt seeking our freedom? Ridiculous!

Then Bir goes on to say how innocent the "ordinary TC" is. But apparently he things that the ordinary GC is guilty. Every GC is guilty according to him, and all of us should now "pay the price"!!!

Unlike your demands against us, I do not demand that the "ordinary TC" should be punished and be made to "pay the price". I support that all Cypriots should have the 100% of their human and democratic rights and be equal Cypriots without any racist or other discriminations.

We forgave you after 300+ years of brutal oppression against us, and this is why we managed to live in peace for those 80 years after the Ottoman rule ended. We didn't made you "pay the price". Similarly, we are again willing to forgive you and forgive the massive crimes you are commiting today and for the last several decades, so we can again live together in peace. Unfortunately you are trying to find excuses to continue with yet more crimes against us, by repeating your own distorted version of events that happened about half a century ago.

[B25]

Excellent post Piratis, but it is wasted on Bir who is hell bent on teaching us a lesson and demanding we surrender to his demands and even to say sorry for wanting to stand up for ourselves and be counted.

The cheek!

[BirKibrisli]

No, I accept no blame whatsoever, we are totally innocent of all that has happened since 1960.

It's funny you say that because we feel totally innocent since 1570 when something terrible happened...

Obviously Pissartists relentless piss-posts are working. So, its fine for me to be penalised for what happened 400 odd years back, if so then fuck me, I have a lot to answer for.

400 years back? Today you are illegally occupying 1/3rd of Cyprus keeping 100s of thousands of people out of their homes. Today is not "400 odd years back" is it?

You don't want to be blamed for what you are doing today and yet you want to blame us for what happened about half a century ago, even though you are the ones who started the problems back then as well (in June 1958)? How come?

When we talk about 1571 we are not talking about something that you did once 439 years ago. We are talking about what you are doing constantly - NON STOP since then and until today.

And now you are looking for excuses to continue with more of the same crimes against us in the future as well, by repeating over and over your own distorted version of a single decade that happened half a century ago!

Piratis,
Please open your ears and your eyes and your mind and listen...
The TCs of today had nothing to do with what happened in 1571...
Cyprus was captured by the Ottomans,and most of our ancestors had no choice in the matter...Nobody asked them if they wanted Cyprus invaded...And nobody asked them if they wanted to go there to settle...They were ordered to do it and they knew better not to refuse..

The Ottoman rule ended in 1878...That is 132 years ago...How long do you need to move on? How can you talk about "doing it constantly...Non Stop since then"...??? Even in Ottoman times the majority of the TC people had nothing to do with State power...They were poor farmers and tradesmen who struggled to make a living and fed their families...Why are you so blind? You must know the difference between state power and the people subjected to that power...The TCs were as much the subjects of the Ottoman state/empire power as anybody else...Would the Iraqis be right to blame the ordinary Americans for what the American government and military are doing to them??? Why are you blaming the ordinary TCs for the Ottoman rule which ended in 1878???And why are you not prepared to look at our recent history,say from WWII onwards,which is much more relevant to what is happening today??? Do you believe that if you repeat your nonsensical arguments enough time they will become valid...Get some reality check,Piratis..Do yourself and us a favour...Take a good objective look at the ENOSIS dream,and the EOKA era,and all that was done in the name of Enosis since the 1950s...Because that is why we are where we are today...And if we want to get out of this mess people like yourself will have to eat humble pie and admit that it was all mindless and pointless and self destructive...Above all it was treacherous...
Accept your mistakes and pay the price...The price is the compromises you will have to make to see Cyprus reunited...There is no other way around it...

Bir, the Turks have been commiting crimes against us from the day they set their foot on our island until this very moment. We are talking about a no-stop violence and oppression, and not merely something that happened "x years ago". It is something constant.

The only time they stopped commiting crimes against us was for 80 years between 1878 and 1958. And during that time we lived together in peace. The Cypriot people during those years forgave you. They didn't demand that you had to "accept your mistakes and pay the price", otherwise we wouldn't have peace during those years either.

On the other hand, the Turks want to punish us for seeking nothing more than our freedom from foreign Imperialists. They did this in 1821:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

And they did it again in 1958, helping the British Empire this time.

But according to Bir, the blame lies not with the invaders who came here to enslave and exploit the Cypriot people, but with the Cypriot people who wanted to be free like every other Greek island!!! There would be no need for any EOKA and any armed struggled if the foreign Imperialists (Ottomans and then British) had simply allowed the Cypriot people to freely and democratically choose the destiny of their own island. You come here to oppress and exploit us, and then you blame us because we revolt seeking our freedom? Ridiculous!

Then Bir goes on to say how innocent the "ordinary TC" is. But apparently he things that the ordinary GC is guilty. Every GC is guilty according to him, and all of us should now "pay the price"!!!

Unlike your demands against us, I do not demand that the "ordinary TC" should be punished and be made to "pay the price". I support that all Cypriots should have the 100% of their human and democratic rights and be equal Cypriots without any racist or other discriminations.

We forgave you after 300+ years of brutal oppression against us, and this is why we managed to live in peace for those 80 years after the Ottoman rule ended. We didn't made you "pay the price". Similarly, we are again willing to forgive you and forgive the massive crimes you are commiting today and for the last several decades, so we can again live together in peace. Unfortunately you are trying to find excuses to continue with yet more crimes against us, by repeating your own distorted version of events that happened about half a century ago.

Piratis,
I repeat...The average TC had nothing to do with with the Ottoman oppression and rule...I will give you my family's example,on Mum's side...
My grandfather came from a very poor family...He studied and became a school teacher,but that profession did not suit him...He gave it up and started buying and selling goods on donkey-back...He walked barefeet all around the Paphos district to earn his money to buy land...In time he became a big land owner,and employed many GCs to work in his fields for many years till mid 1950s when all this shit started to hit the fan...He went into survival mode in 1963 when the "troubles" began...They managed to survive in Istinco,and helped us to survive in Nicosia by sending us monthly food supplies from his fields...Our family lost everything in 1974,and we are still waiting for a solution to obtain some justice...Now,how can you blame this man for the oppression you suffered in the hands of the Ottomans between 1571 and 1878....??? If there was no demand for Enosis with Greece on your part we might've had a chance to have a resonable coexistence in Cyprus....Now if you were me,who would you blame for the calamity that befell on my family??? The Ottomans for coming there in 1571??? Is that reasonable and logical???

[Epiktitos]

Now,how can you blame this man for the oppression you suffered in the hands of the Ottomans between 1571 and 1878....???

By being a turk, and by thinking that he had any business being in Cyprus. He did not, you do not.

[Epiktitos]

Now if you were me,who would you blame for the calamity that befell on my family???

What about perhaps some close family member of yours who was a tmt murderer?

[Piratis]

No, I accept no blame whatsoever, we are totally innocent of all that has happened since 1960.

It's funny you say that because we feel totally innocent since 1570 when something terrible happened...

Obviously Pissartists relentless piss-posts are working. So, its fine for me to be penalised for what happened 400 odd years back, if so then fuck me, I have a lot to answer for.

400 years back? Today you are illegally occupying 1/3rd of Cyprus keeping 100s of thousands of people out of their homes. Today is not "400 odd years back" is it?

You don't want to be blamed for what you are doing today and yet you want to blame us for what happened about half a century ago, even though you are the ones who started the problems back then as well (in June 1958)? How come?

When we talk about 1571 we are not talking about something that you did once 439 years ago. We are talking about what you are doing constantly - NON STOP since then and until today.

And now you are looking for excuses to continue with more of the same crimes against us in the future as well, by repeating over and over your own distorted version of a single decade that happened half a century ago!

Piratis,
Please open your ears and your eyes and your mind and listen...
The TCs of today had nothing to do with what happened in 1571...
Cyprus was captured by the Ottomans,and most of our ancestors had no choice in the matter...Nobody asked them if they wanted Cyprus invaded...And nobody asked them if they wanted to go there to settle...They were ordered to do it and they knew better not to refuse..

The Ottoman rule ended in 1878...That is 132 years ago...How long do you need to move on? How can you talk about "doing it constantly...Non Stop since then"...??? Even in Ottoman times the majority of the TC people had nothing to do with State power...They were poor farmers and tradesmen who struggled to make a living and fed their families...Why are you so blind? You must know the difference between state power and the people subjected to that power...The TCs were as much the subjects of the Ottoman state/empire power as anybody else...Would the Iraqis be right to blame the ordinary Americans for what the American government and military are doing to them??? Why are you blaming the ordinary TCs for the Ottoman rule which ended in 1878???And why are you not prepared to look at our recent history,say from WWII onwards,which is much more relevant to what is happening today??? Do you believe that if you repeat your nonsensical arguments enough time they will become valid...Get some reality check,Piratis..Do yourself and us a favour...Take a good objective look at the ENOSIS dream,and the EOKA era,and all that was done in the name of Enosis since the 1950s...Because that is why we are where we are today...And if we want to get out of this mess people like yourself will have to eat humble pie and admit that it was all mindless and pointless and self destructive...Above all it was treacherous...
Accept your mistakes and pay the price...The price is the compromises you will have to make to see Cyprus reunited...There is no other way around it...

Bir, the Turks have been commiting crimes against us from the day they set their foot on our island until this very moment. We are talking about a no-stop violence and oppression, and not merely something that happened "x years ago". It is something constant.

The only time they stopped commiting crimes against us was for 80 years between 1878 and 1958. And during that time we lived together in peace. The Cypriot people during those years forgave you. They didn't demand that you had to "accept your mistakes and pay the price", otherwise we wouldn't have peace during those years either.

On the other hand, the Turks want to punish us for seeking nothing more than our freedom from foreign Imperialists. They did this in 1821:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

And they did it again in 1958, helping the British Empire this time.

But according to Bir, the blame lies not with the invaders who came here to enslave and exploit the Cypriot people, but with the Cypriot people who wanted to be free like every other Greek island!!! There would be no need for any EOKA and any armed struggled if the foreign Imperialists (Ottomans and then British) had simply allowed the Cypriot people to freely and democratically choose the destiny of their own island. You come here to oppress and exploit us, and then you blame us because we revolt seeking our freedom? Ridiculous!

Then Bir goes on to say how innocent the "ordinary TC" is. But apparently he things that the ordinary GC is guilty. Every GC is guilty according to him, and all of us should now "pay the price"!!!

Unlike your demands against us, I do not demand that the "ordinary TC" should be punished and be made to "pay the price". I support that all Cypriots should have the 100% of their human and democratic rights and be equal Cypriots without any racist or other discriminations.

We forgave you after 300+ years of brutal oppression against us, and this is why we managed to live in peace for those 80 years after the Ottoman rule ended. We didn't made you "pay the price". Similarly, we are again willing to forgive you and forgive the massive crimes you are commiting today and for the last several decades, so we can again live together in peace. Unfortunately you are trying to find excuses to continue with yet more crimes against us, by repeating your own distorted version of events that happened about half a century ago.

Piratis,
I repeat...The average TC had nothing to do with with the Ottoman oppression and rule...I will give you my family's example,on Mum's side...
My grandfather came from a very poor family...He studied and became a school teacher,but that profession did not suit him...He gave it up and started buying and selling goods on donkey-back...He walked barefeet all around the Paphos district to earn his money to buy land...In time he became a big land owner,and employed many GCs to work in his fields for many years till mid 1950s when all this shit started to hit the fan...He went into survival mode in 1963 when the "troubles" began...They managed to survive in Istinco,and helped us to survive in Nicosia by sending us monthly food supplies from his fields...Our family lost everything in 1974,and we are still waiting for a solution to obtain some justice...Now,how can you blame this man for the oppression you suffered in the hands of the Ottomans between 1571 and 1878....??? If there was no demand for Enosis with Greece on your part we might've had a chance to have a resonable coexistence in Cyprus....Now if you were me,who would you blame for the calamity that befell on my family??? The Ottomans for coming there in 1571??? Is that reasonable and logical???

Bir, the average TC and the average GC can not be blamed for anything. Now explain to me why you want the average GC to "pay the price". Is this reasonable and logical?

You can have keep your own views about the past and I will keep mine. However history can not be used as an excuse to violate the human rights of innocent people.

As I said, the only time of peace between us on this island was between 1878 and 1958. Those were the 80 years where you didn't have some kind of privileges on our expense and we were all equal Cypriots. This was possible because we forgave Turks for the centuries of oppression against us and we didn't seek revenge on the expense of the average TC.

If there is one lesson that you should learn from history is that peace can not come by trying to punish and give "lessons", but by forgiving each other and accepting to live on this island as equal Cypriots without racist discriminations. We did this in 1878 and we had 80 years of peace and friendship. We can do it again now and that is what you should do as well.

[Viewpoint]

Would that involve surrending our future to GCs to do with as they wish just because they are the majority?

[bill cobbett]

Would that involve surrending our future to GCs to do with as they wish just because they are the majority?

So when are you going to turn up at the UN Sponsored talks to discuss your future with the Leader of the majority population on the basis of UN Resolutions ???????