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Todays visit to Famagusta-very depressing.....

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby BirKibrisli » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:02 pm

Bananiot wrote:The issue has nothing to do with what GR claims to be. If the Eteocypriots are the indigenous people of Cyprus (according to Wicki encyclopaedia) then we are all outsiders, simply some came earlier than others. If GR wants us to believe that he is an Eteocypriot he will have to prove it, show us a creditable link, lets say. A list of common characteristics would suffice for the time being.

Someone once claimed that the only indigenous creatures in Cyprus are the Cyprus donkeys. He had more sense than most contributors on this topic. And, by the way, this person was not Denktash, as some claim.


I always thought it was one of Denktash's sayings...Who was it Bananiot?
Make sure you have a "credible" link though! :wink:
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Postby Bananiot » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:13 pm

It was Makarios who said it first, I have seen it in a number of books. Simply the Turks stole it from us, as always. Next they will say halloumi is Turkish or even, Turkish coffee is ... Turkish.
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Postby Piratis » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:16 pm

Bananiot wrote:The issue has nothing to do with what GR claims to be. If the Eteocypriots are the indigenous people of Cyprus (according to Wicki encyclopaedia) then we are all outsiders, simply some came earlier than others. If GR wants us to believe that he is an Eteocypriot he will have to prove it, show us a creditable link, lets say. A list of common characteristics would suffice for the time being.

Someone once claimed that the only indigenous creatures in Cyprus are the Cyprus donkeys. He had more sense than most contributors on this topic. And, by the way, this person was not Denktash, as some claim.


Pre-historic people existed everywhere and in some other places they existed for far longer than they did in Cyprus.

If we take Bananiot's way of thinking then Humans can be native only to a certain part of Africa, since that is where the Humans evolved.

If we take GRs way of thinking that indigenous people are the "first people to make contact with the land" then the question is what defines "contact with land"? Does it mean the particular land that is covered by my feet, or does it mean that I have contact with the whole Cyprus ... or the whole world?

Europe, Asia and even Africa (before the opening of the Suez Canal) are connected with land. Does it mean that the first human to set his foot at a particular spot in Africa, is a native of not only that particular spot, but of the whole Africa, the whole Europe and the whole Asia?

Obviously both definitions are flowed.

Also GR should know that the Chirokitians were not the first to set their foot on Cyprus. Others came to Cyprus before them, and while most of them didn't settle, a few did. For example there is a short lived settlement at Aetokremnos which dates back to 10.500 BC. Therefore if we follow GRs theory then the Chirokitians are not native to Cyprus!

What is important in the case of Cyprus is that Cyprus was already a Greek inhabited island long before the Turks came here. After 400 years in Cyprus and after developing their own unique characteristics the TCs can call themselves native as well - absolutely no problem with me, but they should also respect the fact that on the island there is a majority of Greeks who are native on this island for 1000s and not just 100s of years, and that it was their own choice to become a Turkish minority on a Greek island.

Therefore the TCs can not say to us "You want to make as a minority". No. You made yourselves a minority on this island, we didn't make you. If you don't like the fact that you are a minority on a Greek island inhabited by a majority of Greeks then you can only blame your own ancestors, not us.
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:26 pm

Bananiot wrote:The issue has nothing to do with what GR claims to be. If the Eteocypriots are the indigenous people of Cyprus (according to Wicki encyclopaedia) then we are all outsiders, simply some came earlier than others. If GR wants us to believe that he is an Eteocypriot he will have to prove it, show us a creditable link, lets say. A list of common characteristics would suffice for the time being.

Asking a Cypriot to prove that his ancient ancestors are from Cyprus is as daft as asking any other person from anywhere else in the world to do the same with their country!

If anything it is those claiming a Greek ancient ancestry that have to present us with the evidence that they somehow escaped that which is natural! Now start using your head.

Someone once claimed that the only indigenous creatures in Cyprus are the Cyprus donkeys. He had more sense than most contributors on this topic. And, by the way, this person was not Denktash, as some claim.

The Cyprus donkey is an introduced species from the African Somalia region (Nubia ?), so I wouldn’t repeat Denktash’s “wise” sayings ever again, unless you want to have an IQ competition with these donkeys. Once again, start using your head!
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:30 pm

Piratis wrote:What is important in the case of Cyprus is that Cyprus was already a Greek inhabited island long before...

There could never be such a thing as a “Greek inhabited Cyprus” anymore than you can have an “Italian inhabited England”!


It's a DUMB theory and the world does NOT work like that!
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Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:12 pm

cyprus is not "greek" nor is it "turk", neither do you have to be "greek" nor "turk" to be cypriot. similarly, americans are not english (neither australians). Cypriots are this island's dwellers, mostly we are grecophone, although turcophones make up a notable part of the demography. as a State it is Sovereign, although for most of recorded history the people were subjects to foreign powers; Cyprus is an island afterall.
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Postby Piratis » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:34 pm

Cyprus is a Greek island because the vast majority of the population has been Greek for thousands of years. Cyprus is no different than Crete, Rhodes or any other Greek island.

The fact that Cyprus is a separate country is not because this is what the Cypriot people choose (like the Americans or Australians), but because this has been imposed on us by those foreigners who for centuries oppressed us and tried to de-Hellenize our island.

Non Greek minorities exist in Cyprus just like they exist everywhere. Those minorities can be equal Cypriots, but they have no right to undemocratically impose their will on this island.
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Re: Todays visit to Famagusta-very depressing.....

Postby denizaksulu » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:40 pm

Piratis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:No, I accept no blame whatsoever, we are totally innocent of all that has happened since 1960.

It's funny you say that because we feel totally innocent since 1570 when something terrible happened...


Obviously Pissartists relentless piss-posts are working. So, its fine for me to be penalised for what happened 400 odd years back, if so then fuck me, I have a lot to answer for.


400 years back? Today you are illegally occupying 1/3rd of Cyprus keeping 100s of thousands of people out of their homes. Today is not "400 odd years back" is it?

You don't want to be blamed for what you are doing today and yet you want to blame us for what happened about half a century ago, even though you are the ones who started the problems back then as well (in June 1958)? How come?

When we talk about 1571 we are not talking about something that you did once 439 years ago. We are talking about what you are doing constantly - NON STOP since then and until today.

And now you are looking for excuses to continue with more of the same crimes against us in the future as well, by repeating over and over your own distorted version of a single decade that happened half a century ago!


Piratis,
Please open your ears and your eyes and your mind and listen...
The TCs of today had nothing to do with what happened in 1571...
Cyprus was captured by the Ottomans,and most of our ancestors had no choice in the matter...Nobody asked them if they wanted Cyprus invaded...And nobody asked them if they wanted to go there to settle...They were ordered to do it and they knew better not to refuse..

The Ottoman rule ended in 1878...That is 132 years ago...How long do you need to move on? How can you talk about "doing it constantly...Non Stop since then"...??? Even in Ottoman times the majority of the TC people had nothing to do with State power...They were poor farmers and tradesmen who struggled to make a living and fed their families...Why are you so blind? You must know the difference between state power and the people subjected to that power...The TCs were as much the subjects of the Ottoman state/empire power as anybody else...Would the Iraqis be right to blame the ordinary Americans for what the American government and military are doing to them??? Why are you blaming the ordinary TCs for the Ottoman rule which ended in 1878???And why are you not prepared to look at our recent history,say from WWII onwards,which is much more relevant to what is happening today??? Do you believe that if you repeat your nonsensical arguments enough time they will become valid...Get some reality check,Piratis..Do yourself and us a favour...Take a good objective look at the ENOSIS dream,and the EOKA era,and all that was done in the name of Enosis since the 1950s...Because that is why we are where we are today...And if we want to get out of this mess people like yourself will have to eat humble pie and admit that it was all mindless and pointless and self destructive...Above all it was treacherous...
Accept your mistakes and pay the price...The price is the compromises you will have to make to see Cyprus reunited...There is no other way around it...


Bir, the Turks have been commiting crimes against us from the day they set their foot on our island until this very moment. We are talking about a no-stop violence and oppression, and not merely something that happened "x years ago". It is something constant.

The only time they stopped commiting crimes against us was for 80 years between 1878 and 1958. And during that time we lived together in peace. The Cypriot people during those years forgave you. They didn't demand that you had to "accept your mistakes and pay the price", otherwise we wouldn't have peace during those years either.

On the other hand, the Turks want to punish us for seeking nothing more than our freedom from foreign Imperialists. They did this in 1821:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


And they did it again in 1958, helping the British Empire this time.

But according to Bir, the blame lies not with the invaders who came here to enslave and exploit the Cypriot people, but with the Cypriot people who wanted to be free like every other Greek island!!! There would be no need for any EOKA and any armed struggled if the foreign Imperialists (Ottomans and then British) had simply allowed the Cypriot people to freely and democratically choose the destiny of their own island. You come here to oppress and exploit us, and then you blame us because we revolt seeking our freedom? Ridiculous!

Then Bir goes on to say how innocent the "ordinary TC" is. But apparently he things that the ordinary GC is guilty. Every GC is guilty according to him, and all of us should now "pay the price"!!!

Unlike your demands against us, I do not demand that the "ordinary TC" should be punished and be made to "pay the price". I support that all Cypriots should have the 100% of their human and democratic rights and be equal Cypriots without any racist or other discriminations.

We forgave you after 300+ years of brutal oppression against us, and this is why we managed to live in peace for those 80 years after the Ottoman rule ended. We didn't made you "pay the price". Similarly, we are again willing to forgive you and forgive the massive crimes you are commiting today and for the last several decades, so we can again live together in peace. Unfortunately you are trying to find excuses to continue with yet more crimes against us, by repeating your own distorted version of events that happened about half a century ago.




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Postby only me » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:27 pm

ELENI wake up Varosha/Maras was yours in 2004 with the Annan plan but your 'wise' leader decided to reject the plan. You have already killed the golden Goose. Wake up soon to separate countries.

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Postby apc2010 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:45 pm

only me wrote:ELENI wake up Varosha/Maras was yours in 2004 with the Annan plan but your 'wise' leader decided to reject the plan. You have already killed the golden Goose. Wake up soon to separate countries.

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Learn your facts ,not the wise leader a fair referendum
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