Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Unlike Piratis, who seems to think that “you go there and we go here” policies (BBF/BBC/etc) is the solution, I’m convinced that “Turkish Cypriots” can NEVER blend in with the indigenous Cypriots in any way or form, so I for one am not prepared to make any special arrangements for them.

Turkey will ALWAYS be a constant problem to Cyprus unless she is militarily confronted, which will result in the loss of many lives but treaties will then be established to force Turkey to (1)TAKE HER PEOPLE back to where they belong, and (2) respect the indigenous people here and their homeland.

There is no other solution if the indigenous people of Cyprus are the priority as they should be.

[BirKibrisli]

Unlike Piratis, who seems to think that “you go there and we go here” policies (BBF/BBC/etc) is the solution, I’m convinced that “Turkish Cypriots” can NEVER blend in with the indigenous Cypriots in any way or form, so I for one am not prepared to make any special arrangements for them.

Turkey will ALWAYS be a constant problem to Cyprus unless she is militarily confronted, which will result in the loss of many lives but treaties will then be established to force Turkey to (1)TAKE HER PEOPLE back to where they belong, and (2) respect the indigenous people here and their homeland.

There is no other solution if the indigenous people of Cyprus are the priority as they should be.

And what if the next military confrontation with Turkey results in even greater catastrophy for the "indigenous Cypriots" as you call them...Who will take the responsibility for that??? YOU???

[repulsewarrior]

You couldn't get more stupid than this Piratis. So, you think that serious political thinkers build their cases on wishful thinking ... one can only laugh.

That was not my thinking, but Bir's. I am not the one who said that Turkey will turn into an "Islamic Republic" soon. I simply said that I would welcome such development because it would be for the benefit of Cyprus.

Serious political thinkers do what is best for their people given the available options. Today the options are:

1) 2/3rds of Cyprus being Free and prosperous ruled by the Cypriot people in a democratic way, while at the same time maintaining all our rights over the the other 3rd and being able to inflict damage to our enemies.

2) Making the whole of Cyprus a puppet of Turkey under some undemocratic regime, while at the same time giving up all our rights over 1/3rd of Cyprus which will then become officially Turkish.

The choice between the 2 is obvious.

Would you care to explain to us how Cyprus would become "a puppet of Turkey under some undemocratic regime" if there is a BBF solution???
This fear might only be in your mind,Piratis...Talking about it might lighten your paranoia...

Not a paranoia at all dear Bir.

I am not talking about any BBF solution, but about something like Annan plan that would give to the Turkish minority the power to veto anything they want in Cyprus, and even direct executive power if we have something like rotating presidency.

Under such a "solution" the Turks (they will not be TCs anymore, since most of them will be Turkish settlers) would get much more than any other minority, which is way way more than what they deserve. They will know fully well that they got all that not because they deserved such powers, but because of the brute force applied by Turkey on the Cypriot people. Therefore your leadership will be indebted to Turkey. They will know that they got their position not because they were democratically elected to that position by the majority of the Cypriot people, but because of the undemocratic racist system that Turkey imposed in Cyprus. This means those people will serve the interests of Turkey first and above everything else.

This is what happens today and for the last several decades in the occupied areas. Your pseudo presidents and pseudo prime-ministers know that they own their positions to Turkey. This is why they serve the Turkish interests first and above everything else. Today the "trnc" is nothing more than a pseudo puppet state of Turkey. If we accept something like the Annan plan, then the puppets of Turkey will get the power to control the whole of Cyprus, against the will of the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

So forget about it my friend. This is our island and we will rule it in a democratic way. 2/3rds of our island free is much better than enslaving the whole of it and giving control to Turkey and her puppets. The aim is to liberate the 1/3rd still under foreign occupation, not to make the whole island enslaved again!

Can you briefly describe a BBF version which will not give Turkey or the TCs some influence in Cyprus???

I am not talking about "some influence" but about controlling influence.

The TCs can have a proportional influence and Turkey which is a foreign country should have no influence at all, either directly or indirectly.

A BBF which can be acceptable is one where the TCs control one of the two component states (sized at about 18% of land and coastline), but do not have controlling power over the central government. The central government should be elected democratically by the whole population. (in which case the influence of the TCs will be proportional to their population). The only thing that TCs can have veto power is changes to the agreed constitution.

but the issue is of Rights as Persons and as Individuals, our Principal is Bicommunal, at least three governing bodies (two levels). similarly, if Bizonal is a geographic representation of this aim, many components can make a political constituency while the State remains Sovereign.

frankly, varosha will be returned one day, when it is absolutely worthless, (if this impasse continues). and i don't doubt that it's children will rebuild it.

[Bananiot]

Turkish Cypriots are indigenous (native) Cypriots and GR has lost it all together, to the point of being embarrassed to be seen talking with.

[Epiktitos]

Turkish Cypriots are indigenous (native) Cypriots

Are you for real?!

[Get Real!]

Turkish Cypriots are indigenous (native) Cypriots and GR has lost it all together, to the point of being embarrassed to be seen talking with.

Ottoman remnants are indigenous to Cyprus? Whatever next…

It must be an honorary indigenousness Bananiot gave them for all their “contributions” to Cyprus!

[Get Real!]

Unlike Piratis, who seems to think that “you go there and we go here” policies (BBF/BBC/etc) is the solution, I’m convinced that “Turkish Cypriots” can NEVER blend in with the indigenous Cypriots in any way or form, so I for one am not prepared to make any special arrangements for them.

Turkey will ALWAYS be a constant problem to Cyprus unless she is militarily confronted, which will result in the loss of many lives but treaties will then be established to force Turkey to (1)TAKE HER PEOPLE back to where they belong, and (2) respect the indigenous people here and their homeland.

There is no other solution if the indigenous people of Cyprus are the priority as they should be.

And what if the next military confrontation with Turkey results in even greater catastrophy for the "indigenous Cypriots" as you call them...Who will take the responsibility for that??? YOU???

I’d rather die fighting taking out plenty of Turks in the process, than allow them the gradual but certain strangulation of Cyprus and her people.

I don’t just think about today or the next ten years, but what will be happening on Cyprus in 50 or 100 years time to our children and unless we do something drastic today Turkification is guaranteed!

[YFred]

Unlike Piratis, who seems to think that “you go there and we go here” policies (BBF/BBC/etc) is the solution, I’m convinced that “Turkish Cypriots” can NEVER blend in with the indigenous Cypriots in any way or form, so I for one am not prepared to make any special arrangements for them.

Turkey will ALWAYS be a constant problem to Cyprus unless she is militarily confronted, which will result in the loss of many lives but treaties will then be established to force Turkey to (1)TAKE HER PEOPLE back to where they belong, and (2) respect the indigenous people here and their homeland.

There is no other solution if the indigenous people of Cyprus are the priority as they should be.

And what if the next military confrontation with Turkey results in even greater catastrophy for the "indigenous Cypriots" as you call them...Who will take the responsibility for that??? YOU???

I’d rather die fighting taking out plenty of Turks in the process, than allow them the gradual but certain strangulation of Cyprus and her people.

I don’t just think about today or the next ten years, but what will be happening on Cyprus in 50 or 100 years time to our children and unless we do something drastic today Turkification is guaranteed!

You are a brainwashed twit. If it's death you are after, it can be arranged, but what is this selfishness of taking others with you all about. How bloody selfish can you get.

[Piratis]

You couldn't get more stupid than this Piratis. So, you think that serious political thinkers build their cases on wishful thinking ... one can only laugh.

That was not my thinking, but Bir's. I am not the one who said that Turkey will turn into an "Islamic Republic" soon. I simply said that I would welcome such development because it would be for the benefit of Cyprus.

Serious political thinkers do what is best for their people given the available options. Today the options are:

1) 2/3rds of Cyprus being Free and prosperous ruled by the Cypriot people in a democratic way, while at the same time maintaining all our rights over the the other 3rd and being able to inflict damage to our enemies.

2) Making the whole of Cyprus a puppet of Turkey under some undemocratic regime, while at the same time giving up all our rights over 1/3rd of Cyprus which will then become officially Turkish.

The choice between the 2 is obvious.

Would you care to explain to us how Cyprus would become "a puppet of Turkey under some undemocratic regime" if there is a BBF solution???
This fear might only be in your mind,Piratis...Talking about it might lighten your paranoia...

Not a paranoia at all dear Bir.

I am not talking about any BBF solution, but about something like Annan plan that would give to the Turkish minority the power to veto anything they want in Cyprus, and even direct executive power if we have something like rotating presidency.

Under such a "solution" the Turks (they will not be TCs anymore, since most of them will be Turkish settlers) would get much more than any other minority, which is way way more than what they deserve. They will know fully well that they got all that not because they deserved such powers, but because of the brute force applied by Turkey on the Cypriot people. Therefore your leadership will be indebted to Turkey. They will know that they got their position not because they were democratically elected to that position by the majority of the Cypriot people, but because of the undemocratic racist system that Turkey imposed in Cyprus. This means those people will serve the interests of Turkey first and above everything else.

This is what happens today and for the last several decades in the occupied areas. Your pseudo presidents and pseudo prime-ministers know that they own their positions to Turkey. This is why they serve the Turkish interests first and above everything else. Today the "trnc" is nothing more than a pseudo puppet state of Turkey. If we accept something like the Annan plan, then the puppets of Turkey will get the power to control the whole of Cyprus, against the will of the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

So forget about it my friend. This is our island and we will rule it in a democratic way. 2/3rds of our island free is much better than enslaving the whole of it and giving control to Turkey and her puppets. The aim is to liberate the 1/3rd still under foreign occupation, not to make the whole island enslaved again!

Can you briefly describe a BBF version which will not give Turkey or the TCs some influence in Cyprus???

I am not talking about "some influence" but about controlling influence.

The TCs can have a proportional influence and Turkey which is a foreign country should have no influence at all, either directly or indirectly.

A BBF which can be acceptable is one where the TCs control one of the two component states (sized at about 18% of land and coastline), but do not have controlling power over the central government. The central government should be elected democratically by the whole population. (in which case the influence of the TCs will be proportional to their population). The only thing that TCs can have veto power is changes to the agreed constitution.

So what you really want is Partition...Because there is no way you will fit all the returning GCs and the TCs into 18%...You don't want the GCs and TCs to live together,why? because you know no GC will return to live in the TC constituent state??? god forbid if any GC would want to live in TC controlled area...You are still trying to get one up over the TCs ,Piratis...You are incurable... good luck!

You got it in REVERSE. I hope you made that comment before thinking about it too much, otherwise your IQ must be quite low.

If the TCs who are the 18% of the population keep the 29% of the land, then in order for those TCs to be the majority in that 29% it requires that:
(1) all TCs stay within that 29%.
(2) that not all GCs return to their homes.

GCs have been the 82% majority in all parts of Cyprus. The 29% of 82% is almost 24%. So if all GC refugees would return to their homes then the GCs would be the majority in the "TC state" as well, even if every single TC stayed in the "TC state".

On the other hand the 18% of 82% is less than 15%. So even if all refugees return to that 18% State, the TCs can still be the majority in it, even if some of them choose to live in the "GC state".

As far as "fitting" goes, they will fit even easier since the population density will not be any higher than what you have now with the 100s of thousands of Settlers and the 40.000 Turkish troops.

So cut the lame excuses Bir. YOU are one who doesn't want GCs and TCs to live together and who wants partition. The ultimate in living together is a unitary state with no kind of separation and segregation.

But "living together" is not what you want. What you want is to Turkify as much of Cyprus as possible.

[BirKibrisli]

Unlike Piratis, who seems to think that “you go there and we go here” policies (BBF/BBC/etc) is the solution, I’m convinced that “Turkish Cypriots” can NEVER blend in with the indigenous Cypriots in any way or form, so I for one am not prepared to make any special arrangements for them.

Turkey will ALWAYS be a constant problem to Cyprus unless she is militarily confronted, which will result in the loss of many lives but treaties will then be established to force Turkey to (1)TAKE HER PEOPLE back to where they belong, and (2) respect the indigenous people here and their homeland.

There is no other solution if the indigenous people of Cyprus are the priority as they should be.

And what if the next military confrontation with Turkey results in even greater catastrophy for the "indigenous Cypriots" as you call them...Who will take the responsibility for that??? YOU???

I’d rather die fighting taking out plenty of Turks in the process, than allow them the gradual but certain strangulation of Cyprus and her people.

I don’t just think about today or the next ten years, but what will be happening on Cyprus in 50 or 100 years time to our children and unless we do something drastic today Turkification is guaranteed!

You are a brainwashed twit. If it's death you are after, it can be arranged, but what is this selfishness of taking others with you all about. How bloody selfish can you get.

Some time ago,Americans devised a fail-safe way of saving the Vietnamees from communism...they killed as many of them as they could...GR seems to be following in the Americans' footsteps...