Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

What have I been telling you? Bananiot gives credibility and humanity to all GCs in eyes of the TCs...This thread has proven it once again...DT had the wrong end of the stick,jumped the gun and wrongfully accused Bananiot of something he did not say or mean...The two of them had a civilised dialogue,and most of the confusion has been clarified...
Bananiot then told us a story,a terrible tragedy,unforgetable crime against humanity...Did the TCs here jumped on Bananiot,insulted him and accused him of lying or exaggerating or making it all up...???NOOOO... Did we ask him for "credible" links??? NOOOO ...Why? Because we trust him and we believe him...He has tonnes of credibility...So,instead of hanging their their heads in shame,what do the dogs of war do??? They come out barking,taking single lines out of paragraphs of wisdom and attacking Bananiot again...

The bitter,twisted,fanatical minds full of hatred and anger...If we had any doubt what kind of people are responsible for the tragedy that is Cyprus we don't have to look far...They are here barking day in day out...But you know what? I think they are the ones who need help the most...They obviously can't help themselves..Their minds are wired to distord and twist the information which comes in,in order to justify their extremist thoughts,beliefs and feelings...One even told us he would take great pleasure in lining people up and shooting them personally...He can't even see the irony when in his next breath he says he will never accept Turkey as a guarantor of TC safety...I am not sure if I should laugh or cry...

Sorry Bir,

but thats not what happened at all (apart from the civilised discussion I guess) Gotta run now but will explain why later.

[BirKibrisli]

What have I been telling you? Bananiot gives credibility and humanity to all GCs in eyes of the TCs...This thread has proven it once again...DT had the wrong end of the stick,jumped the gun and wrongfully accused Bananiot of something he did not say or mean...The two of them had a civilised dialogue,and most of the confusion has been clarified...

Bananiot then told us a story,a terrible tragedy,unforgetable crime against humanity...Did the TCs here jumped on Bananiot,insulted him and accused him of lying or exaggerating or making it all up...???NOOOO... Did we ask him for "credible" links??? NOOOO ...Why? Because we trust him and we believe him...He has tonnes of credibility...So,instead of hanging their their heads in shame,what do the dogs of war do??? They come out barking,taking single lines out of paragraphs of wisdom and attacking Bananiot again...

The bitter,twisted,fanatical minds full of hatred and anger...If we had any doubt what kind of people are responsible for the tragedy that is Cyprus we don't have to look far...They are here barking day in day out...But you know what? I think they are the ones who need help the most...They obviously can't help themselves..Their minds are wired to distord and twist the information which comes in,in order to justify their extremist thoughts,beliefs and feelings...One even told us he would take great pleasure in lining people up and shooting them personally...He can't even see the irony when in his next breath he says he will never accept Turkey as a guarantor of TC safety...I am not sure if I should laugh or cry... :(

Bir, If I'm not mistaken, the person you are referring to (B25) was not implying that he would shoot the TCs by lining them up, but instead "shooting" the GCs for going over to the north to gamble and paying a visit to the whorehouses at the time when the RoC is officially at war with the occupying power, Turkey, in the north. That being the case, Turkey being a guarantor power to save the TCs does not come to play here.

Kikapu,
If I had a neighbour I knew would take great pleasure in putting hundreds of people against a wall and shooting them personally,I would want special protection to live with them,even side by side...If B25 would kill hundreds of innocent people with pleasure for visiting the trnc,what would he do to the hated TCs if he got the chance?????

Yes but, he was talking about his own people, now, at a time of "war" where he feels that they are traitors for aiding the "enemy", Turkey, as a occupying power in his country and he was not directing his anger at the TCs on this occasion, so lets not bring the TCs into the picture, because if he was going to be a murderer of the TCs during peace time as you have stated your concerns about the TCs needing special protection by someone living next door to him, i.e, the Turkey's guarantees as you have mentioned it on your previous post, then why isn't B25 killing any of the thousands of TCs going to the south now, where the Turkey's guarantors and security cannot reach them, so lets keep our eye on the ball here and not go off on the what ifs when there isn't one to talk about. Personally, B25 needs to apologise for making such a statement, and since he hasn't (as far as we know) lined up any GCs and shot them for going to the north, then it is safe to say he will not do such a thing during peace time either as your neighbour. If we have settlement based on the Annan Plan where many Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights would be violated, then I would say the chances of the repeat of 1963 happening again would be very likely. Are we going to ask other nations to become our guarantor just because we will have a Racist, undemocratic and violations of Human Rights for a "peace settlement" or are we going to have a peace settlement based on Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and the EU Principles which would not require any guarantor rights from any nations. If the rest of Europe can function without guarantor just because they have a democratic systems in place, then we should have one also and sod the guarantors since they have done no good to the Cypriots anyway, except for their own self interests only.

I am happy for you,Kikapu,that you have such trust in the democratic system as it is practised in Cyprus that you would bet your and your loved ones life on it...Most TCs seem to disagree with you...I guess if the majority of the TCs say they want special protection from the likes of B25 and some of the others who post here,we would have to accept their democratic right to demand such protection ,would we not??? Forcing them to forego what they overwhelmingly and democratically tell us they want would not be very democratic ,would it?

[DT.]

I am happy for you,Kikapu,that you have such trust in the democratic system as it is practised in Cyprus that you would bet your and your loved ones life on it...Most TCs seem to disagree with you...I guess if the majority of the TCs say they want special protection from the likes of B25 and some of the others who post here,we would have to accept their democratic right to demand such protection ,would we not??? Forcing them to forego what they overwhelmingly and democratically tell us they want would not be very democratic ,would it?

The best person I think that can answer your question to Kikapu Bir, is Bir...

The point is why would I want to put the future of my own family in danger by insisting on reunification?

I have gone blue in the face arguing this point:The times have changed and most GCs have moved on from the dream of Enosis. They now know it was a folly which cost them and Cyprus dearly.There are no more EOKA fighters running around killing those who disagreed with their aims.There are no more TMT fighters doing the same on the other side.
RoC is a prosperous European country run democratically(more or less).
As far as I know there are no religious leaders doubling up as politicians.
So the line that the GCs are wolves in sheep's clothes waiting to pounce on us is,to say the least,not very credible. On the other hand,given the certainty that the TRNC will never be recognised by the UN as a legitimate state,and the certain loss of TC national identity if the status quo remains for another couple of decades,I am finding it extremely difficult to understand the position of those advocating partition.The only reason can be the persistence of a pathological fear and anxiety caused by the traumas of the 50s and 60s...In other words persistance of a collective Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which has turned those TCs still living in the TRNC into paranoid psychological weaklings unable to imagine standing on their own two feet on a level playing field...A sad and tragic situation. One that I could not bear to watch from either side of the divide for longer than one week at a time...Hence I am condemned to live and die in exile,but hey,there must be worse things in life than that prospect,though I am finding it difficult to think of one at the moment...

I agree with everyhting you say mate..

[BirKibrisli]

I am happy for you,Kikapu,that you have such trust in the democratic system as it is practised in Cyprus that you would bet your and your loved ones life on it...Most TCs seem to disagree with you...I guess if the majority of the TCs say they want special protection from the likes of B25 and some of the others who post here,we would have to accept their democratic right to demand such protection ,would we not??? Forcing them to forego what they overwhelmingly and democratically tell us they want would not be very democratic ,would it?

The best person I think that can answer your question to Kikapu Bir, is Bir...

The point is why would I want to put the future of my own family in danger by insisting on reunification?

I have gone blue in the face arguing this point:The times have changed and most GCs have moved on from the dream of Enosis. They now know it was a folly which cost them and Cyprus dearly.There are no more EOKA fighters running around killing those who disagreed with their aims.There are no more TMT fighters doing the same on the other side.
RoC is a prosperous European country run democratically(more or less).
As far as I know there are no religious leaders doubling up as politicians.
So the line that the GCs are wolves in sheep's clothes waiting to pounce on us is,to say the least,not very credible. On the other hand,given the certainty that the TRNC will never be recognised by the UN as a legitimate state,and the certain loss of TC national identity if the status quo remains for another couple of decades,I am finding it extremely difficult to understand the position of those advocating partition.The only reason can be the persistence of a pathological fear and anxiety caused by the traumas of the 50s and 60s...In other words persistance of a collective Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which has turned those TCs still living in the TRNC into paranoid psychological weaklings unable to imagine standing on their own two feet on a level playing field...A sad and tragic situation. One that I could not bear to watch from either side of the divide for longer than one week at a time...Hence I am condemned to live and die in exile,but hey,there must be worse things in life than that prospect,though I am finding it difficult to think of one at the moment...

I agree with everyhting you say mate..

I am happy you do,DT...
But you agreeing with me is not enough...The majority of the TCs do not...That is the sticking point...What are we going to do? Hit them on the head till they see the world as you and I do...That wouldn't be very democratic now,Would it???

I am telling you again...It is not what I think or wish that is important...I am only the messenger...You can abuse me all you like...The message is clear : The TCs will never agree to a solution that will remove Turkey as a guarantor...If the GCs want a solution they will have to like it or lump it...I finally got the message...The question is,when will you??? And if you don't, what next???

[BirKibrisli]

Check and mate Bir you two faced, double standard, double crossing git.

So,I am a nice guy if I tell you what you want to hear...But if I tell you what you don't want to hear,I am a double crossing git....

[B25]

Check and mate Bir you two faced, double standard, double crossing git.

So,I am a nice guy if I tell you what you want to hear...But if I tell you what you don't want to hear,I am a double crossing git....

Not at all, you said those things because you believed in them and nothing has changed since.

But for some reason you have turned nasty and wanting partition and trying to scare the TCs into something that is not for real. Your TMT father taught you well there, my hat comes off to him.

You have turned on your fellow cypriots to stir tensions and anxiety so that you can continue, as Piratis has told you many times, to keep getting those unfair privilages.

Thats why. Regardless of my writings here, I am not actually like that for real. I will accept something that is fair (although I may still not like it), but not be force fed the shit that comes from your side when you are guilty as sin. It has been said a billion times we are all guilty for many of the crimes done here, but when you occupy this land forcefully and then demand we bend over, well thats just switches me off.

Seems it is us that need the guarantees, you are living proof there mate, one minute you are with us, next against, why should we trust YOU?

[DT.]

I am happy for you,Kikapu,that you have such trust in the democratic system as it is practised in Cyprus that you would bet your and your loved ones life on it...Most TCs seem to disagree with you...I guess if the majority of the TCs say they want special protection from the likes of B25 and some of the others who post here,we would have to accept their democratic right to demand such protection ,would we not??? Forcing them to forego what they overwhelmingly and democratically tell us they want would not be very democratic ,would it?

The best person I think that can answer your question to Kikapu Bir, is Bir...

The point is why would I want to put the future of my own family in danger by insisting on reunification?

I have gone blue in the face arguing this point:The times have changed and most GCs have moved on from the dream of Enosis. They now know it was a folly which cost them and Cyprus dearly.There are no more EOKA fighters running around killing those who disagreed with their aims.There are no more TMT fighters doing the same on the other side.
RoC is a prosperous European country run democratically(more or less).
As far as I know there are no religious leaders doubling up as politicians.
So the line that the GCs are wolves in sheep's clothes waiting to pounce on us is,to say the least,not very credible. On the other hand,given the certainty that the TRNC will never be recognised by the UN as a legitimate state,and the certain loss of TC national identity if the status quo remains for another couple of decades,I am finding it extremely difficult to understand the position of those advocating partition.The only reason can be the persistence of a pathological fear and anxiety caused by the traumas of the 50s and 60s...In other words persistance of a collective Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which has turned those TCs still living in the TRNC into paranoid psychological weaklings unable to imagine standing on their own two feet on a level playing field...A sad and tragic situation. One that I could not bear to watch from either side of the divide for longer than one week at a time...Hence I am condemned to live and die in exile,but hey,there must be worse things in life than that prospect,though I am finding it difficult to think of one at the moment...

I agree with everyhting you say mate..

I am happy you do,DT...
But you agreeing with me is not enough...The majority of the TCs do not...That is the sticking point...What are we going to do? Hit them on the head till they see the world as you and I do...That wouldn't be very democratic now,Would it???

I am telling you again...It is not what I think or wish that is important...I am only the messenger...You can abuse me all you like...The message is clear : The TCs will never agree to a solution that will remove Turkey as a guarantor...If the GCs want a solution they will have to like it or lump it...I finally got the message...The question is,when will you??? And if you don't, what next???

I don't mean to abuse you mate, I just want to remind you of some of the things you and I were in complete agreement off in the past. If you wish to take a more populist method now its your choice Bir and I'll still respect you for it. You're just going to be harder work than I originally thought.

[BirKibrisli]

Check and mate Bir you two faced, double standard, double crossing git.

So,I am a nice guy if I tell you what you want to hear...But if I tell you what you don't want to hear,I am a double crossing git....

Not at all, you said those things because you believed in them and nothing has changed since.

But for some reason you have turned nasty and wanting partition and trying to scare the TCs into something that is not for real. Your TMT father taught you well there, my hat comes off to him.

You have turned on your fellow cypriots to stir tensions and anxiety so that you can continue, as Piratis has told you many times, to keep getting those unfair privilages.

Thats why. Regardless of my writings here, I am not actually like that for real. I will accept something that is fair (although I may still not like it), but not be force fed the shit that comes from your side when you are guilty as sin. It has been said a billion times we are all guilty for many of the crimes done here, but when you occupy this land forcefully and then demand we bend over, well thats just switches me off.

Seems it is us that need the guarantees, you are living proof there mate, one minute you are with us, next against, why should we trust YOU?

I am sure your are doing your best to understand the situation,B25...And it is very complicated I know...I will try to make it simple for you...

The last thing I want for Cyprus is partition...That would be the end of the TC identity and culture...I have realised that most TCs would rather stick to the devil they know...That is Turkey...So to get Turkey out of the way we need a comprehensive solution...For the TCs to agree to such a solution they want Turkey's gurantee to stay...So unless you agree to that there will be no solution,hence status quo will remain,inevitably leading the way to Partition or annexation of the North by Turkey...Which is what I do not want...Do you get it now???

[Get Real!]

The last thing I want for Cyprus is partition...That would be the end of the TC identity and culture...I have realised that most TCs would rather stick to the devil they know...That is Turkey...So to get Turkey out of the way we need a comprehensive solution...For the TCs to agree to such a solution they want Turkey's gurantee to stay...So unless you agree to that there will be no solution,hence status quo will remain,inevitably leading the way to Partition or annexation of the North by Turkey...Which is what I do not want...Do you get it now???

What the hell… let’s press on with this annexation!

So when does Erdogan plan to confront the EU to ask for their support to annex a portion of EU territory?

[BirKibrisli]

I am happy for you,Kikapu,that you have such trust in the democratic system as it is practised in Cyprus that you would bet your and your loved ones life on it...Most TCs seem to disagree with you...I guess if the majority of the TCs say they want special protection from the likes of B25 and some of the others who post here,we would have to accept their democratic right to demand such protection ,would we not??? Forcing them to forego what they overwhelmingly and democratically tell us they want would not be very democratic ,would it?

The best person I think that can answer your question to Kikapu Bir, is Bir...

The point is why would I want to put the future of my own family in danger by insisting on reunification?

I have gone blue in the face arguing this point:The times have changed and most GCs have moved on from the dream of Enosis. They now know it was a folly which cost them and Cyprus dearly.There are no more EOKA fighters running around killing those who disagreed with their aims.There are no more TMT fighters doing the same on the other side.
RoC is a prosperous European country run democratically(more or less).
As far as I know there are no religious leaders doubling up as politicians.
So the line that the GCs are wolves in sheep's clothes waiting to pounce on us is,to say the least,not very credible. On the other hand,given the certainty that the TRNC will never be recognised by the UN as a legitimate state,and the certain loss of TC national identity if the status quo remains for another couple of decades,I am finding it extremely difficult to understand the position of those advocating partition.The only reason can be the persistence of a pathological fear and anxiety caused by the traumas of the 50s and 60s...In other words persistance of a collective Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which has turned those TCs still living in the TRNC into paranoid psychological weaklings unable to imagine standing on their own two feet on a level playing field...A sad and tragic situation. One that I could not bear to watch from either side of the divide for longer than one week at a time...Hence I am condemned to live and die in exile,but hey,there must be worse things in life than that prospect,though I am finding it difficult to think of one at the moment...

I agree with everyhting you say mate..

I am happy you do,DT...
But you agreeing with me is not enough...The majority of the TCs do not...That is the sticking point...What are we going to do? Hit them on the head till they see the world as you and I do...That wouldn't be very democratic now,Would it???

I am telling you again...It is not what I think or wish that is important...I am only the messenger...You can abuse me all you like...The message is clear : The TCs will never agree to a solution that will remove Turkey as a guarantor...If the GCs want a solution they will have to like it or lump it...I finally got the message...The question is,when will you??? And if you don't, what next???

I don't mean to abuse you mate, I just want to remind you of some of the things you and I were in complete agreement off in the past. If you wish to take a more populist method now its your choice Bir and I'll still respect you for it. You're just going to be harder work than I originally thought.

I am not taking a more populist approach,DT...I am taking a more realistic approach...The reality is that the TCs will not accept any solution that will remove Turkey totally from the equation...If you can find a formula that will accomplish what I now believe is the impossible,I will take my hat off to you...And I will be very happy for Cyprus...Mate,we need to sign an agreement soon before it is too late...Before the status quo turns into fait accompli...We will all lose in that scenario...It is better to have Turkey's guarantee on Paper,than via the presence of 40,000 troops...I am amazed you guys cannot see this...Or perhaps you can see it,but still believe you can get Turkey to remove her troops and the Guarantee at the same time...I believe that is impossible...Prove me wrong and I will give you a case of the best Australian wines I can afford...But you will need to hurry up,I have just turned 59...