Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Your thinking is warped. The question you should be asking is why do TCs wish to be guaranteed by Turkey and nobody else?
Perhaps in the past they were rather let down? could that be a reason?

Didn't Turkey let down the TCs from 1963-1974 by allowing them to be in enclaves when they should have fulfilled their guarantor obligations to restore the RoC government with the involvement of the TCs. No, they just looked from a distance and made few bombing runs instead, so don't preach to us that Turkey had the TCs best interest in their hearts then or now. The fact that Turkey NEVER had a mandate to ONLY secure the TCs interest in Cyprus, but rather the best interest of ALL Cypriots along with Greece and Britain, which they have ALL failed to do with flying colours I may add, stands the reason why the TCs cannot choose who they want as a guarantor for their community in a unified Cyprus, in a sovereign nation. It is the sovereign nation of unified Cyprus who will decide if they want any guarantors from anyone and not the individual communities themselves. If you have any examples where such practices takes place in other countries, feel free to show us, otherwise stop making a fool of yourself over and over again by telling us what the TCs want for the north in a unified country. If and when the TCs get their own country anywhere in the world, then they can ask Turkey to provide all the guarantees they want. Until then, the next best thing for those TCs who want Turkey to be their guarantor, is best that they move to Turkey.!

Kicks baby you really have to grow up some time in your life. Restore what? it was the roc government that was doing the plotting not some external entity. How could it possibly restore the government that plotted enosis ( Akritas plan).
Put your thinking head on for once. There was only one way to protect the TCs and that was the plan that was implemented.
You didn't live it, some of us did.

Answer the damn question regarding my post and don't give me no double talk..

What difference does it make why the RoC government needed restoring with the TCs in there.? It needed restoring with the TCs there, end of story. Turkey took the role as a guarantor to protect the integrity of the RoC as a whole, so why did Turkey let the TCs suffer for 11 years if they felt that the RoC was not functioning as a government, and if not, why did Turkey continue to recognise the RoC up until 1974 when they invaded and occupied northern part of Cyprus.?

[Gasman]

why did Turkey continue to recognise the RoC up until 1974 when they invaded and occupied northern part of Cyprus.?

Everything I've read about it says they were plotting it for many years and that they did not just decide to 'invade' one day in 1974, having been quite happy with the status quo up until then.

[YFred]

Your thinking is warped. The question you should be asking is why do TCs wish to be guaranteed by Turkey and nobody else?
Perhaps in the past they were rather let down? could that be a reason?

Didn't Turkey let down the TCs from 1963-1974 by allowing them to be in enclaves when they should have fulfilled their guarantor obligations to restore the RoC government with the involvement of the TCs. No, they just looked from a distance and made few bombing runs instead, so don't preach to us that Turkey had the TCs best interest in their hearts then or now. The fact that Turkey NEVER had a mandate to ONLY secure the TCs interest in Cyprus, but rather the best interest of ALL Cypriots along with Greece and Britain, which they have ALL failed to do with flying colours I may add, stands the reason why the TCs cannot choose who they want as a guarantor for their community in a unified Cyprus, in a sovereign nation. It is the sovereign nation of unified Cyprus who will decide if they want any guarantors from anyone and not the individual communities themselves. If you have any examples where such practices takes place in other countries, feel free to show us, otherwise stop making a fool of yourself over and over again by telling us what the TCs want for the north in a unified country. If and when the TCs get their own country anywhere in the world, then they can ask Turkey to provide all the guarantees they want. Until then, the next best thing for those TCs who want Turkey to be their guarantor, is best that they move to Turkey.!

Kicks baby you really have to grow up some time in your life. Restore what? it was the roc government that was doing the plotting not some external entity. How could it possibly restore the government that plotted enosis ( Akritas plan).
Put your thinking head on for once. There was only one way to protect the TCs and that was the plan that was implemented.
You didn't live it, some of us did.

Answer the damn question regarding my post and don't give me no double talk..

What difference does it make why the RoC government needed restoring with the TCs in there.? It needed restoring with the TCs there, end of story. Turkey took the role as a guarantor to protect the integrity of the RoC as a whole, so why did Turkey let the TCs suffer for 11 years if they felt that the RoC was not functioning as a government, and if not, why did Turkey continue to recognise the RoC up until 1974 when they invaded and occupied northern part of Cyprus.?

What with the original plotters in their place? Yeah right and now for your next joke old man?
The Turks were never that clever. Perhaps?

[fwnh]

OK fwnh - all GCs and TCs love one another and always have done (including those on here calling each other criminals, murderers, perverts and rapists) - it was just the pesky politicians.

I see.

very well then, lets wrap it up and go home because some people like to bark a lot

[Kikapu]

Your thinking is warped. The question you should be asking is why do TCs wish to be guaranteed by Turkey and nobody else?
Perhaps in the past they were rather let down? could that be a reason?

Didn't Turkey let down the TCs from 1963-1974 by allowing them to be in enclaves when they should have fulfilled their guarantor obligations to restore the RoC government with the involvement of the TCs. No, they just looked from a distance and made few bombing runs instead, so don't preach to us that Turkey had the TCs best interest in their hearts then or now. The fact that Turkey NEVER had a mandate to ONLY secure the TCs interest in Cyprus, but rather the best interest of ALL Cypriots along with Greece and Britain, which they have ALL failed to do with flying colours I may add, stands the reason why the TCs cannot choose who they want as a guarantor for their community in a unified Cyprus, in a sovereign nation. It is the sovereign nation of unified Cyprus who will decide if they want any guarantors from anyone and not the individual communities themselves. If you have any examples where such practices takes place in other countries, feel free to show us, otherwise stop making a fool of yourself over and over again by telling us what the TCs want for the north in a unified country. If and when the TCs get their own country anywhere in the world, then they can ask Turkey to provide all the guarantees they want. Until then, the next best thing for those TCs who want Turkey to be their guarantor, is best that they move to Turkey.!

Kicks baby you really have to grow up some time in your life. Restore what? it was the roc government that was doing the plotting not some external entity. How could it possibly restore the government that plotted enosis ( Akritas plan).
Put your thinking head on for once. There was only one way to protect the TCs and that was the plan that was implemented.
You didn't live it, some of us did.

Answer the damn question regarding my post and don't give me no double talk..

What difference does it make why the RoC government needed restoring with the TCs in there.? It needed restoring with the TCs there, end of story. Turkey took the role as a guarantor to protect the integrity of the RoC as a whole, so why did Turkey let the TCs suffer for 11 years if they felt that the RoC was not functioning as a government, and if not, why did Turkey continue to recognise the RoC up until 1974 when they invaded and occupied northern part of Cyprus.?

What with the original plotters in their place? Yeah right and now for your next joke old man?
The Turks were never that clever. Perhaps?

I don't know why I bother to respond to your posts at times, because as soon as I ask questions to counter your posts, you come up with idiotic answers, hence the waste of cyberspace.!

YFred, you do not need to respond to others posts with the first thing that comes to your mind, as if you were a psychiatric patient who is asked to tell the psychiatrist the first thing that comes to his mind after hearing a word from the psychiatrist. Your responses hardly ever make a proper sense. Now, go back to my post and answer the questions put to you if you don't want to be know as cyberspace waster.!

[BirKibrisli]

from the same link:

Turkish Cypriots (TC) and Greek Cypriots(GC) still managed to live together. Fast forward 40 years to opening of Green Line in 2005, when tens of thousands of Cypriots crossed without incident.

IF what you say is genuine, which is why i doubt you... then why not accept a UN army to look after both sides?

UN army is in control of the Permenant members of the secutity council. Do you really think the TCS will trust Russia and the damn frogs for their protection. Pleas pull the other one the middle one has bells on it. We don't need the Turkish armu in Cyprus, but without the gurantee there will never be peace. You will understand it eventually, in about 10 thousand years.

I fail to understand the logic in your argument.

Why does the invader require a guarantee to remain in Cyprus ! Please kindly explain.

The invader does not require a guarantee to stay...It requires a guarantee to leave...To realise how totally useless the UN forces are anywhere you only need to look at the Rowandan situation not so long ago...More than 500,000 people were slaughtered while the UN forces practically stood and watched...
The TCs will not accept anyone else'e guarantee,only Turkey's...That is one of their red lines...No guarantee no agreement....In don't like it any more than you do,Byron...But that is the reality given our bloody past....Take it or leave it...

[BirKibrisli]

but we are not the negotiators just anonymous civilians

But you are the very people that any 'solution' is supposed to enable to live together in harmony, aren't you?

If no amount of legislation, nor concessions, nor apologies, is going to achieve that (and it does seem that that's what caused all the trouble in the first place - your inability for the most part to live in harmony together), what's the point of talks?

and we did live together...
*Remember that the tragedy of the island is not its people but its politicians

Historical revisionism again...The tragedy of the island is that her people did not want to aspire to be her people (Cypriots) but something else....Time we all agreed on that...When we do we will start making headways towards assessing the situation of today realistically...then we might have a chance of finding a solution...

[Kikapu]

from the same link:

Turkish Cypriots (TC) and Greek Cypriots(GC) still managed to live together. Fast forward 40 years to opening of Green Line in 2005, when tens of thousands of Cypriots crossed without incident.

IF what you say is genuine, which is why i doubt you... then why not accept a UN army to look after both sides?

UN army is in control of the Permenant members of the secutity council. Do you really think the TCS will trust Russia and the damn frogs for their protection. Pleas pull the other one the middle one has bells on it. We don't need the Turkish armu in Cyprus, but without the gurantee there will never be peace. You will understand it eventually, in about 10 thousand years.

I fail to understand the logic in your argument.

Why does the invader require a guarantee to remain in Cyprus ! Please kindly explain.

The invader does not require a guarantee to stay...It requires a guarantee to leave...To realise how totally useless the UN forces are anywhere you only need to look at the Rowandan situation not so long ago...More than 500,000 people were slaughtered while the UN forces practically stood and watched...
The TCs will not accept anyone else'e guarantee,only Turkey's...That is one of their red lines...No guarantee no agreement....In don't like it any more than you do,Byron...But that is the reality given our bloody past....Take it or leave it...

Bir, there is the NATO forces that can protect any one in Cyprus. It was the NATO forces that gave Kosovo their liberation from the Serbs. It is the NATO forces who are fighting and dying in Afghanistan. In both the cases, they are fighting/fought to save the non Christians, so if the UN is not up to the job, what's the reason why NATO can't do the job.? Is this not the perfect compromise where each side will have Turks and Greeks as well as other NATO members on the streets of Cyprus to provide what ever security that may be needed for all Cypriots.?

[B25]

from the same link:

Turkish Cypriots (TC) and Greek Cypriots(GC) still managed to live together. Fast forward 40 years to opening of Green Line in 2005, when tens of thousands of Cypriots crossed without incident.

IF what you say is genuine, which is why i doubt you... then why not accept a UN army to look after both sides?

UN army is in control of the Permenant members of the secutity council. Do you really think the TCS will trust Russia and the damn frogs for their protection. Pleas pull the other one the middle one has bells on it. We don't need the Turkish armu in Cyprus, but without the gurantee there will never be peace. You will understand it eventually, in about 10 thousand years.

I fail to understand the logic in your argument.

Why does the invader require a guarantee to remain in Cyprus ! Please kindly explain.

The invader does not require a guarantee to stay...It requires a guarantee to leave...To realise how totally useless the UN forces are anywhere you only need to look at the Rowandan situation not so long ago...More than 500,000 people were slaughtered while the UN forces practically stood and watched...
The TCs will not accept anyone else'e guarantee,only Turkey's...That is one of their red lines...No guarantee no agreement....In don't like it any more than you do,Byron...But that is the reality given our bloody past....Take it or leave it...

Bir, there is the NATO forces that can protect any one in Cyprus. It was the NATO forces that gave Kosovo their liberation from the Serbs. It is the NATO forces who are fighting and dying in Afghanistan. In both the cases, they are fighting/fought to save the non Christians, so if the UN is not up to the job, what's the reason why NATO can't do the job.? Is this not the perfect compromise where each side will have Turks and Greeks as well as other NATO members on the streets of Cyprus to provide what ever security that may be needed for all Cypriots.?

Kiks do not be drawn into the conspiracy. This all assumes that as soon as the Turkish troops leave the GCs are going to go charging over and murder everyone.

This is totally rubbish and it is being used as a fear factor to get the TCs all wound up fearing for their lives.

How many TCs have been massacred since the opening of the crossing?? its not a fear of the TA that has prevented it, it is that we have no intention of doing it. Don't give me the rubbish about "if you have nothing to fear ...." story, it doesn't work.

Turkey wants to retain a presence in Cyprus at will and she wants us to mandate it. We would be utter fools to do that, although there are 1 or 2 GC idiots that would.

No Guarantee rights, No Turkey, No red lines. Simple as ABC.

[Kikapu]

from the same link:

Turkish Cypriots (TC) and Greek Cypriots(GC) still managed to live together. Fast forward 40 years to opening of Green Line in 2005, when tens of thousands of Cypriots crossed without incident.

IF what you say is genuine, which is why i doubt you... then why not accept a UN army to look after both sides?

UN army is in control of the Permenant members of the secutity council. Do you really think the TCS will trust Russia and the damn frogs for their protection. Pleas pull the other one the middle one has bells on it. We don't need the Turkish armu in Cyprus, but without the gurantee there will never be peace. You will understand it eventually, in about 10 thousand years.

I fail to understand the logic in your argument.

Why does the invader require a guarantee to remain in Cyprus ! Please kindly explain.

The invader does not require a guarantee to stay...It requires a guarantee to leave...To realise how totally useless the UN forces are anywhere you only need to look at the Rowandan situation not so long ago...More than 500,000 people were slaughtered while the UN forces practically stood and watched...
The TCs will not accept anyone else'e guarantee,only Turkey's...That is one of their red lines...No guarantee no agreement....In don't like it any more than you do,Byron...But that is the reality given our bloody past....Take it or leave it...

Bir, there is the NATO forces that can protect any one in Cyprus. It was the NATO forces that gave Kosovo their liberation from the Serbs. It is the NATO forces who are fighting and dying in Afghanistan. In both the cases, they are fighting/fought to save the non Christians, so if the UN is not up to the job, what's the reason why NATO can't do the job.? Is this not the perfect compromise where each side will have Turks and Greeks as well as other NATO members on the streets of Cyprus to provide what ever security that may be needed for all Cypriots.?

Kiks do not be drawn into the conspiracy. This all assumes that as soon as the Turkish troops leave the GCs are going to go charging over and murder everyone.

This is totally rubbish and it is being used as a fear factor to get the TCs all wound up fearing for their lives.

How many TCs have been massacred since the opening of the crossing?? its not a fear of the TA that has prevented it, it is that we have no intention of doing it. Don't give me the rubbish about "if you have nothing to fear ...." story, it doesn't work.

Turkey wants to retain a presence in Cyprus at will and she wants us to mandate it. We would be utter fools to do that, although there are 1 or 2 GC idiots that would.

No Guarantee rights, No Turkey, No red lines. Simple as ABC.

I do not any convincing, B25. I know what the game Turkey is playing via the TCs. "Red Flags" are only there for not to have a settlement, which is different than each side making compromises to reach a settlement that does not violate anyone's Democratic and Human Rights.

Then again, I can be very cavalier about security concerns of the TCs in Cyprus, just because I have a Swiss girlfriend to protect me from all those revenge seeking GCs.!