Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

I think a far more interesting question is why the AKP is supporting EU membership. Back when the Islamic fundamentalists in Turkey were headed by Erbakan, the position was simple. They opposed EU membership and instead wanted Turkey to realign itself with its Islamic neighbours to the east. Suddenly and pardoxically, the Islamists have become more pro-EU than the secularists. I wonder if this is:

1) because the AKP, even though all of its leading lights have their roots in political Islam, has undergone a deep ideological transformation and now heartily backs Mustafa Kemal's vision of Turkey joining the ranks of Western nations,

2) for instrumental reasons, given that the AKP can be argued to have its base among people who have become rich and powerful as a result of industrialisation in more conservative regions of Anatolia, and who are socially conservative but economically liberal and see opportunities to grow their businesses within the EU, or

3) simply a cynical ploy, either to keep the army of their backs while they gradually roll back the achievements of the Republic, as the secularists would see it, or even because they have calculated that the EU will ultimately close its doors on Turkey thus leading to a groundswell of support in favour of building closer ties with the Islamic world.

or

4) It's the only way the Islamic religious political parties can survive in Turkey from the military coups by being in the EU, which will protect their freedom of religious expression, Tim.!

Sure, that's what I meant by "keeping the army off their backs". In fact, I believe that the answer is a mixture of the above three.

So USA has no say in what the turks do in Turkey?

Sure. If it were not for the US there would have been a coup by now.

[YFred]

I think a far more interesting question is why the AKP is supporting EU membership. Back when the Islamic fundamentalists in Turkey were headed by Erbakan, the position was simple. They opposed EU membership and instead wanted Turkey to realign itself with its Islamic neighbours to the east. Suddenly and pardoxically, the Islamists have become more pro-EU than the secularists. I wonder if this is:

1) because the AKP, even though all of its leading lights have their roots in political Islam, has undergone a deep ideological transformation and now heartily backs Mustafa Kemal's vision of Turkey joining the ranks of Western nations,

2) for instrumental reasons, given that the AKP can be argued to have its base among people who have become rich and powerful as a result of industrialisation in more conservative regions of Anatolia, and who are socially conservative but economically liberal and see opportunities to grow their businesses within the EU, or

3) simply a cynical ploy, either to keep the army of their backs while they gradually roll back the achievements of the Republic, as the secularists would see it, or even because they have calculated that the EU will ultimately close its doors on Turkey thus leading to a groundswell of support in favour of building closer ties with the Islamic world.

or

4) It's the only way the Islamic religious political parties can survive in Turkey from the military coups by being in the EU, which will protect their freedom of religious expression, Tim.!

Sure, that's what I meant by "keeping the army off their backs". In fact, I believe that the answer is a mixture of the above three.

So USA has no say in what the turks do in Turkey?

Sure. If it were not for the US there would have been a coup by now.

No Tim. I wish it was as simple as that, but it is not. There are the hawks in US who instigated the coup and there those who prevented it. Both orders came from the USA.

[CopperLine]

Like any other bunch of people, there will be a range of views. Some would support the military, some the AKP, some - most in my view - would support neither. Others would like to support the democratic process in which case by default they'd be against the military, but that doesn't mean they'd give support to the AKP.

It is, unfortunately, a poorly worded question.

[YFred]

Like any other bunch of people, there will be a range of views. Some would support the military, some the AKP, some - most in my view - would support neither. Others would like to support the democratic process in which case by default they'd be against the military, but that doesn't mean they'd give support to the AKP.

It is, unfortunately, a poorly worded question.

I being one of the moderates on the forum said neither but they keep insisting I must choose. Perhaps you can aslo say your view of those who insist on selecting one or the other. Are they fascists or not? Should they be lined up and shot or not?

[aussieturk]

Go back to brokeback mountain and practise what you invented if you are going to post rubbish

Your answer AussieTurk proves to everyone with half a mind how backwards the Turkish mentality is.....keep proving the whole world correct by posting your stupidity for all to see....

Looks like (so far) you Cyprus Turks would rather deny your Anatolian civilian cousins the chance for reform, democracy and progress towards EU - just so hired killers can secure your illegalities. Call yourselves real Turks, with such treachery to your people?

So the EU prefers Turkey to turn into an Islamic state? The military is there to guard the secular ways and if that means some minority groups have to be scrutinized closely and lose some of their human rights, so be it. The alternative under Islam is worse.

[apc2010]

Apart from the fact you have ended your last TWO posts "dumb fuck" . Do you deny that iraq and afghanistan got the shit bombed out of them ??

[aussieturk]

Looks like (so far) you Cyprus Turks would rather deny your Anatolian civilian cousins the chance for reform, democracy and progress towards EU - just so hired killers can secure your illegalities. Call yourselves real Turks, with such treachery to your people?

So the EU prefers Turkey to turn into an Islamic state?

Probably not, but I wasn't asking the EU, who want to see reform and democracy - which won't come from the military. I was asking the Cyprus Turks.

The military is there to guard the secular ways and if that means some minority groups have to be scrutinized closely and lose some of their human rights, so be it. The alternative under Islam is worse.

So you voted for the military. Fair enough.

Yes I voted for the military. One day when the country is more developed and people are better educated and have a high standard of living, then the military should stay out of politics. In the meantime, rural people know no better and turn to the most backward religion in the world, ie Islam. These people need to be kept in check not to interfer with the secular ways.

[aussieturk]

Apart from the fact you have ended your last TWO posts "dumb fuck" . Do you deny that iraq and afghanistan got the shit bombed out of them ??

Bombed, but not defeated.

[apc2010]

When the country is "developed and people are better educated" ,I hope you include yourself in this after that comment!!!!!

[aussieturk]

When the country is "developed and people are better educated" ,I hope you include yourself in this after that comment!!!!!

eerrrrr derrghhhh what did use say.


You have no idea do you