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EU Objective 1 status for "Northern" Cyprus.

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Postby zan » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:47 pm

Get Real! wrote:
vaughanwilliams wrote:Given that RoC annual revenues only total something less than 3BnEuro,

:? :lol:

Cyprus' GDP (nominal) is $25 billion p/annum

Cyprus' GDP (nominal) p/capita $30,000


The Greek tragedy of my 20-year love affair that's turning into a nightmare
By CHRISTOPHER HUMPHRYS
Last updated at 9:45 AM on 29th April 2010
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A dream job? I thought so. I had left the grey skies of London and the big black hole in my bank account for the sunny skies of Greece. My salary as a cellist playing in a small Greek orchestra was relatively modest, but I could still afford to eat out every night, rent a nice apartment and spend long summer holidays on the Greek islands.
By the time I met my beautiful future wife, Penelope, my mind was made up. I could see no reason for ever wanting to live anywhere else but Greece.
That was 20 years ago. This week, as Greece woke up to the reality that it was effectively a bankrupt nation, I could see many reasons.

Civil unrest: Protesters clash with riot police over Greek 'austerity measures'
Here’s a snapshot of everyday life in a nation on the brink of civil catastrophe.
Before I set out for work on my motorbike yesterday morning, I first had to plan a route that would avoid the latest demonstration and the inevitable tear-gas that would accompany it.
As I passed the debris of the previous night’s riots, I heard the police helicopters buzzing overhead and tried to avoid eye contact with the nervous policemen on almost every street corner, fingering their carbines.
The vibrant but essentially law-abiding city of Athens has become a tense and slightly threatening place to live. It’s all happening because of the Greek economy, which this week collapsed even further as global credit agencies downgraded the rating of Greek government bonds to ‘junk’ status.
But in truth, the rot set in long ago. For decades, Greece has been living a lie. To say the nation has been living beyond its means is the understatement of the century. We have been indulging in an orgy of over- spending and over-borrowing beyond the wildest imagination.

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Let me introduce you to my oldest friend, John, the man I went to school with in Britain and the man who first persuaded me to try for a job in Athens. He was already living here. In the years since then, he has become as Greek as the Elgin Marbles. He has a Greek wife, Greek children and a deep love of the country he thinks of as his own.
But today he is desperately looking for a job back in Britain. And that’s because five years ago he managed to do something we all hankered after: he got a job with the state orchestra.
The important part of that sentence is the word ‘state’. It’s not a very good orchestra, but when you work for it you are on the state’s payroll, and that’s the gravy train that just about everyone in Greece wanted to board. It meant a job for life. The pension was eye-watering by British standards and so were the benefits.
Try this for size: a full year’s maternity leave; a year’s sabbatical if it took your fancy; and no matter how badly you played your music, you were utterly secure in the knowledge that you would never be sacked. These rules applied to every single state job in the land.
Now, in the spending cuts that are surely going to have to be made, John is terrified that his gold-star state job could vanish overnight — a bleak prospect with unemployment spiralling, but one that looks increasingly likely.

Unrealistic: Greeks may protest, but for too long they have relied on EU cash
Take another friend of mine, whose father died when she was only 25 years old. She inherited his state pension even though she was a well-to-do lawyer in her own right.
I have plenty of other friends who work for the state. I use the word ‘work’ loosely. Some of them are conscientious and do their nine-tofive hours with a degree of enthusiasm. But the fact is that some didn’t even bother turning up for work at all; they do other jobs instead, but still collect their state salaries.
I think of them as ‘ghost workers’ — and every Greek knows at least one of them. These ghosts have been milking the taxpayer for every penny they could take.
Now, let’s look at that word ‘ taxpayer’. In Greece, tax has long been something regarded by most people as entirely optional. You may choose to pay it, or you may not. There are a hundred ways of finding loopholes — some of them legal, many of them not.
The state has always acknowledged as much. And so, rather than pursuing the tax cheats with all the might of the law, they offered an amnesty: instead of being investigated for tax evasion, people were able to volunteer a one-off payment to make the problem go away.
How much? Just e2,000. And that’s it. No questions asked, even if you had been avoiding a tax liability of tens of thousands.
But then, why on earth would the politicians seek to end this blatant corruption when they have been at
One government minister was found to have built an enormous villa on the side of a mountain in a highly desirable location just outside Athens. Not only did he have no planning permission, but he built it with cheap labour supplied by illegal immigrants. His penalty, when the papers made a big fuss about it, was to be demoted — but his house still stands.
It’s impossible to calculate how many houses in Athens have been built illegally. What is certain is that somebody, somewhere, has been making a huge amount of money in bribes from the owners.
The standard way of doing business in this country is to resort to a ‘little brown envelope’. It’s not only corruption, such dishonesty
denies the state income that should be paying for the schools, the hospitals and every other public service.
And here’s the strange thing. Those public services are, by most standards, very good. I have always found the health service here to be at least as good as Britain’s, probably better. And it’s entirely free.
So how can they afford it when people don’t pay their taxes? The answer, of course, is: Greece can’t. It’s bankrupt.
Nor can the country afford those staggeringly generous state pensions (my father-in-law’s pension is rather higher than my salary), nor the ghost jobs nor — God forbid — the Olympics that they staged with such fanfare in 2004. They cost more than e10 billion, and the long-term benefits from them have been effectively zero.
Yes, there’s a shiny new Metro underground train system and whole areas of the city have been tarted up — but it was done with borrowed money that has yet to be paid back. And those magnificent new stadiums are decaying before our eyes — a sad reminder of why hubris is a Greek word.
Perhaps the greatest corruption of all was the way Greece managed to join the euro. There was no way in the world the government could have met the strict financial criteria, so they took another route: they lied.

Symbol of failure: The euro sculpture at the European Central Bank in Frankfurt. Greece lied to gain entry to the single currency and it has caused prices to double
With the help of foreign bankers they simply misled Brussels and everyone else as to the true degree to which the state was in hock to the lenders.
They imagined that being members of the euro would cement Greece’s position as a modern, successful European country. Now, as we know all too well, the opposite has been the case.
Certainly, Greece has benefited enormously from being a member of the European Union. This is a fiercely patriotic country and you will see the Greek flag flying everywhere you go.
But here’s a sobering thought: almost every significant building, road, even park has been financed at least in part by you, dear reader. It’s your taxes — routed through payments to the EU — that have helped Greece look the way it does today. But now, of course, the gravy train has careered off the track and is causing carnage.
Yes, the Greek government is now embarking on what is called an austerity programme. But it still doesn’t look anything like austere enough.
Here’s an example. It decided that if you own a swimming pool, you must, by definition, be pretty well-off and therefore you should be paying a certain amount in tax. If not, you’re in trouble.
And, of course, it’s easy for officialdom to spot the pool owners: they just look at the pictures conveniently provided on the website Google Earth. So what do the owners do? They cover their pools with green covers so that it looks as though they have nice, big lawns. Old habits die hard.
My own fear is that corruption and tax evasion and borrowing are so deeply ingrained in the Greek culture that even the austerity measures taken, and the combined bail-outs from other EU nations and the International Monetary Fund, will simply not work. Too little, and much too late.
And what then? Well, maybe we will be forced out of the euro — and maybe that will be good for us.
Many of us who live here will not be sorry to see the back of the euro, because one catastrophic sideeffect of joining the single market has been that the cost of living has pretty much doubled.
Meanwhile, the country must learn to live within its means. It must recognise that the state is not some sort of Santa Claus who can always pull another surprise goodie out of his bottomless sack.
For the past couple of years the Greek tourist authority has been selling the delights of this glorious country with the slogan ‘Live your myth in Greece’.
How appropriate that sounds today. We have been living a myth in Greece for far too long. It is now disintegrating, and all of us are deeply worried about what will take its place.
What a sobering lesson for Britain, as you slowly face up to the enormity of your own economic crisis.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z0xEhyqj5G



Notice anything familiar :lol:
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Postby vaughanwilliams » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:03 pm

Get Real! wrote:Rebuilding the occupied territory will indeed be a very costly venture, so an infrastructure Levy of 5% p/annum should be charged to all the corrupt citizens living there and be placed in an interest bearing account with the UN.

Problem solved!


Where do you dream these things up from?
5% of what?
Even if such a thing were done it wouldn't scratch the surface.
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:08 pm

zan wrote:The Greek tragedy of my 20-year love affair that's turning into a nightmare

Notice anything familiar :lol:

Sorry Zanny but as soon as I saw "Greek" in the title I skipped it.
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Postby zan » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:11 pm

Get Real! wrote:
zan wrote:The Greek tragedy of my 20-year love affair that's turning into a nightmare

Notice anything familiar :lol:

Sorry Zanny but as soon as I saw "Greek" in the title I skipped it.



No problem mate but soon you might be using it more frequently!!! 8) :lol: As in........It was those bloody Greeks fault :oops: Oh no! You already do......Rewind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby miltiades » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:31 pm

The national pastime of the Greeks is demonstrations , what a bloody shame they did not have the guts to demonstrate against the bloody junta who were the main culprits responsible for giving Turkey the excuse to invade !
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:35 pm

vaughanwilliams wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Rebuilding the occupied territory will indeed be a very costly venture, so an infrastructure Levy of 5% p/annum should be charged to all the corrupt citizens living there and be placed in an interest bearing account with the UN.

Problem solved!


Where do you dream these things up from?
5% of what?
Even if such a thing were done it wouldn't scratch the surface.

5% levied p/annum on every citizen’s income… you made the mess you pay for it. I think that’s only fair!
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Postby zan » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:02 pm

Get Real! wrote:
vaughanwilliams wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Rebuilding the occupied territory will indeed be a very costly venture, so an infrastructure Levy of 5% p/annum should be charged to all the corrupt citizens living there and be placed in an interest bearing account with the UN.

Problem solved!


Where do you dream these things up from?
5% of what?
Even if such a thing were done it wouldn't scratch the surface.

5% levied p/annum on every citizen’s income… you made the mess you pay for it. I think that’s only fair!



As it says above.....A Greek national pastime....Not Miltiades post....Mine.....Evading taxes and blame :roll:
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:30 pm

zan wrote:As it says above.....A Greek national pastime....Not Miltiades post....Mine.....Evading taxes and blame :roll:

I’d love to counter your arguments Zanny, if only I understood them… :?
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Postby vaughanwilliams » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:20 pm

Get Real! wrote:
vaughanwilliams wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Rebuilding the occupied territory will indeed be a very costly venture, so an infrastructure Levy of 5% p/annum should be charged to all the corrupt citizens living there and be placed in an interest bearing account with the UN.

Problem solved!


Where do you dream these things up from?
5% of what?
Even if such a thing were done it wouldn't scratch the surface.

5% levied p/annum on every citizen’s income… you made the mess you pay for it. I think that’s only fair!


I'm not a citizen and neither are most ex-pats. Most citizens don't earn very much and 5% of not very much is, well, not very much. :D
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Postby Piratis » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:11 pm

larnacaman wrote:Piratis,

Why am i clueless ?? I can see the cost's and i can see the time scales involved. i've been in Construction almost all of my working life. For the last 15 years or so of my overseas career, i was either PM2 or PM3 on multi, multi million dollar projects. So i think i have a little understanding what it's going to take to get the North modernised to an acceptable standard. I also know about contractual funding of projects too, government and private clients.

Clueless, ...maybe, but not quite to the level you assume!!

I don't think your quite understanding the enormity, as a Project overall. Even experienced planners, consultants and the like are going to have a tough time getting to grips with it all .... But i Know it's gonna cost this country and others dearly, and it's gonna take a lot longer than you or many are assuming...


We spend billions every year in the construction industry, even in a slow year. Many multi-million projects where created in Cyprus during the last years and many more are coming.

You are not only clueless you are also simple minded. When you spend money on such works you are not throwing the money away. It is an investment which has returns. This is why people spend all those millions in the projects where you worked. Or you think they were doing it just so you can get a salary? :roll:

You are really funny when you are trying to say that 36% of our land (which includes more than half of the coastline) returned to us will be a bad thing for us because we will have to re-construct it.

So I will repeat to you: our land is our wealth, and we are the first ones who will want to invest in our land so we can receive the returns of our investment, just like we did with the free part of Cyprus. Now, if you are so stupid to understand this very obvious thing, then I really don't know what more I can say to you.
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