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A victim of the Turkish Cypriot 'exchange' scam asks…

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: A victim of the Turkish Cypriot 'exchange' scam asks…

Postby fwnh » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:34 pm

Malapapa wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:All this time 'the carpetbaggers' have been classified as 'thieves' and have comitted 'criminal acts' etc. Are you now saying that the RoC are to aid these 'criminals' in their quest for 'compensation'?

You know my stance on property rights.

A carpetbagger is a carpetbagger, but there is no reason why an “alliance” cannot be formed to fight the REAL enemy which is the “TRNC” and those that keep it afloat; predominantly the Turkish Cypriots, because after all “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”!

I think we should assist all carpetbaggers in getting their money back thus removing them from the Cyprus problem, while concurrently bringing down the “TRNC”.


Absolutely mate/matess.

There are some strange alliances to be made, focused on common enemies .... Tnucland, Turkey and the dealers in dodgy scammy "deeds".


I want to know which side vaughan williams is on.


why does he have to take a side? unless you mean which side of the island
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Re: A victim of the Turkish Cypriot 'exchange' scam asks…

Postby Malapapa » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:46 pm

fwnh wrote:
Malapapa wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:All this time 'the carpetbaggers' have been classified as 'thieves' and have comitted 'criminal acts' etc. Are you now saying that the RoC are to aid these 'criminals' in their quest for 'compensation'?

You know my stance on property rights.

A carpetbagger is a carpetbagger, but there is no reason why an “alliance” cannot be formed to fight the REAL enemy which is the “TRNC” and those that keep it afloat; predominantly the Turkish Cypriots, because after all “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”!

I think we should assist all carpetbaggers in getting their money back thus removing them from the Cyprus problem, while concurrently bringing down the “TRNC”.


Absolutely mate/matess.

There are some strange alliances to be made, focused on common enemies .... Tnucland, Turkey and the dealers in dodgy scammy "deeds".


I want to know which side vaughan williams is on.


why does he have to take a side? unless you mean which side of the island


I'm confused as to whether he sides with outlaws and invaders or with the rule of law and those fighting for freedom and justice. Which side are you on?
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Re: A victim of the Turkish Cypriot 'exchange' scam asks…

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:54 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Get Real! wrote:A victim of the Turkish Cypriot 'exchange' scam asks…

greenman from the C44 asks:

The Turkish Cypriot who sold me his 'exchange land' has land in the ROC. Now this exchange has officially not been recognised by the EU, can I now make a claim for the land my TC seller DOES have in the ROC?

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/30840.asp


The TC 'exchange land' notion is not recognized by the RoC which you can read about in more detail here…

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle22.htm


My synopsis of the offence/complaint is that:

A Turkish Cypriot swindled you (via the infamous TC “exchange” scam) into paying him for land/property that he did NOT own!


My recommended procedure for litigation is:

Sue him in the RoC courts for swindling you out of your money, and upon winning the case file a claim for compensation from the sale of any of his assets in the RoC, or indeed the rest of the EU.


NB: There is no reason why foreigners who were conned into this international TC scam in the “TRNC” cannot find justice by following this procedure.


Regards, GR.


All this time 'the carpetbaggers' have been classified as 'thieves' and have comitted 'criminal acts' etc. Are you now saying that the RoC are to aid these 'criminals' in their quest for 'compensation'?

You know my stance on property rights.


They are victims of a scam, don't you see?



Ofcourse Tim. I know all about it. I had further points to make had GR responded.

The scammers should be sued they have assets all over the world. The scammers also had the backing of the northern admin.


In legal terms, I think it all boils down to whether they can reasonably claim to have bought "in good faith". I am sure Copperline or Nikitas are more competent to comment than I am on this.
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Re: A victim of the Turkish Cypriot 'exchange' scam asks…

Postby Get Real! » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:08 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:In legal terms, I think it all boils down to whether they can reasonably claim to have bought "in good faith". I am sure Copperline or Nikitas are more competent to comment than I am on this.

I think it’s very difficult to prove or disprove “good faith", and let’s not forget that the case would be a “Some EU citizen Vs scamming TC” so nobody will even question the carpetbagger about “good faith”.

But it’s very easy to prove that this TC accepted money (receipts used as evidence) in exchange for something he didn’t own (he won’t be able to produce a valid title deed to that property) and as an RoC citizen (no doubt he will be a holder of an RoC passport, CY-EU drivers license, or CY-EU ID card) he is liable for conning someone.

Pretty straight forward case if you ask me…
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Postby Oracle » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:26 pm

I think this "good faith" argument can go back to whether the carpetbaggers sought clarification from the UK authorities and then either ignored the advice or the advice was inadequate.

It should not be forgotten that the UK was criticised for insufficient warnings, early on, but failed to respond until too late for most. (Effectively endorsing these crimes.)

Being taken up on this, and by its own subjects, may deter the UK from supporting Turkey in any future ventures ...
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Postby B25 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:40 pm

The UK government do not give investment advice, just warnings.

Anyone investing in the puppet state does so by his own accord and accepts the risks associated with such investments.

DD lies with the investor or his appointed representitive in which case he may have a claim against them.

There is sod all they can do. They should just vacate the properties and go back to the UK, end of.

Out
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Postby Get Real! » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:43 pm

I also agree that getting the UK govt involved is wrong because of the complexity and magnitude of such litigation.

Keep it short, sweet, and simple in the RoC and you’ve got a winner!
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Re: A victim of the Turkish Cypriot 'exchange' scam asks…

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:08 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:In legal terms, I think it all boils down to whether they can reasonably claim to have bought "in good faith". I am sure Copperline or Nikitas are more competent to comment than I am on this.

I think it’s very difficult to prove or disprove “good faith", and let’s not forget that the case would be a “Some EU citizen Vs scamming TC” so nobody will even question the carpetbagger about “good faith”.

But it’s very easy to prove that this TC accepted money (receipts used as evidence) in exchange for something he didn’t own (he won’t be able to produce a valid title deed to that property) and as an RoC citizen (no doubt he will be a holder of an RoC passport, CY-EU drivers license, or CY-EU ID card) he is liable for conning someone.

Pretty straight forward case if you ask me…


It has to do with "due diligence". If there was evidence in the public domain that the vendor was not the true owner, then the purchaser cannot assert good faith. That is my understanding.
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Postby Gasman » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:28 pm

Conversely, if Britain was wiser it could take steps to protect its subjects from being abused by Turkey in this way. The UK should take this little matter up with Ankara.


Someone should maybe take it up with the Estate Agents who are STILL putting a load of misinformation on their websites encouraging people to buy in the North.

An example here from PropertyCyprusSales.com (one of many many - too many to list them all)

NORTH CYPRUS PROPERTIES WITH TRNC TITLE

Esdeger Title North Cyprus Properties (Better known as EXCHANGE title deed North Cyprus Properties)
The North Cyprus property with TRNC Title Deed was previously Greek Cypriot owned prior to 1974. Again there are a number of checks to be carried out by the Council of Ministers, which means the sale will take approx. 6-12 months to complete. When the Turkish Cypriot refugees came to the safety of the north after July 1974, they left all their possessions behind in the south. Accordingly, the Government then assessed on a points basis, the value of the refugee's forsaken assets in the south. With these points, the Turkish Cypriot refugee could take a relinquished Greek Cypriot house or land in compensation for his lost properties.

Under the Annan Plan there is almost complete protection for an owner of Esdeger title. A foreign person purchasing Esdeger Title North Cyprus property is considered to be in exactly the same position as the original Turkish Cypriot refugee who swapped his land post-1974. Therefore the Annan Plan expressly acknowledges there can be legitimate dealings in such title.

The first protection is that a current owner, including a foreigner, cannot lose Esdeger land to the Greek Cypriot who owned it pre-1974 if its value does not exceed the value of the land the Turkish Cypriot left in the south in 1974 by more than 50%. The second protection is that a current owner cannot lose Esdeger land if it has been "substantially improved" since 1974. This includes the construction of a building. The purchase of a house built on such land since 1974 is therefore automatically protected.


And, if you contact them (using their 'contact us' facility, and point out to them politely that this info might need updating in the light of the recent Orams decision, what happens is ... they DO NOT REPLY.

Having just read the thread on CY44, it is obvious that those posting have absolutely no idea what day it is let alone the status of land!


Amen to that, and amen also to some of the hare brained ideas they come up with for the ex pat Brits to 'protect' themselves.
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Postby rigsby » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:16 pm

There is nobody as deaf as somebody who does not want to hear. There was more than enough warning in the UK about buying in North Cyprus these people chose to ignore the warnings.They listened to the people they were paying their money to because that is what they wanted to hear They don,t give a toss who,s land it was just that they think they got agood deal. Oracle the UK is not a nanny state people make their own decisions.
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