Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more.

I'd steer clear of percentages and decimal points if I were you.

I found this article last night. I wondered if Yfreds reference to 'that percentage' came from here?

I highlight it in red.

"
MICHAEL STEPHEN
Michael Stephen is Master of Laws (LL M) of the Inner Temple Barrister and a former member of
the British House of Commons. He is also member of the Royal Institute of International Affairs,
Chatham House and author of The Cyprus Question, London, 1997.
The crux of the current Cyprus problem is not the failure of Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots to
reach agreement, but the internationalisation of the issue, and the failure of the international
community to recognise the enormity of the injustice done for nearly forty years to the Turkish
Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots and by the international community itself. The failure of the
international community to acknowledge the reality of Cyprus and to refrain from seeking to impose
its own framework for a solution, starting from the fiction that there is today only one state and only
one government in the island, has made a Cyprus settlement impossible. Until this international
attitude changes, no amount of talks or diplomatic pressure will succeed or will deserve to succeed.
If the Turkish Cypriots are to engage in further talks, these must be with the Americans and, to a
lesser extent, with the British and the EU, who have the power to change the international status quo.
It is a fallacy to suppose that the UN has any substantive role to play, but if realistic international
conditions were to be established, talks under UN auspices could be resumed with reasonable
prospects of success.
The fundamental cause of the problem is that the international community has been, and still is,
willing to overlook a systematic attempt at genocide by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 and again in
1964, 1967 and 1974, and the destruction by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 of the republic which was
established by the 1960 Constitution and guaranteed by international Treaty. They have also been
willing to overlook the fact that for 11 years after 1963 the Turkish Cypriots were driven from their
homes, farms and businesses, and squeezed into defended enclaves comprising only three percent of
the island, deprived of the basic necessities of modern life - all this despite the existence of a solemn
international guarantee and UN troops actually in Cyprus since 1964.
Greek Cypriot policy after 1963 was summarised as follows in Fileleftheros on 20th September
1992:
"We the Greek Cypriots are now in full control of the government. We do not have the
Vice-President with his veto or the three Turkish Cypriot Ministers in it. All the Ministers are
Greeks. Our government is the only one recognised internationally - why should we bring the
Turkish Cypriots back in? The Turkish Cypriots today control only 3% of the land. They have no
rich resources and they are living through difficult times from an economic point of view. They will
ultimately have to accept our point of view - or go."

As I keep saying,the majority of the GCs have not learned the lessons from 1950,1963,1974...They still think if they can squeeze the TCs hard enough they will give up and go away...With this attitude,the worse in the bloody Cyprus tragedy is yet to come,I am afraid...

You are right. That's a worrying thought. I dont know why I bother sometimes.

[Get Real!]

As I keep saying,the majority of the GCs have not learned the lessons from 1950,1963,1974...They still think if they can squeeze the TCs hard enough they will give up and go away...With this attitude,the worse in the bloody Cyprus tragedy is yet to come,I am afraid...

With one little difference… this time the Greek Cypriots are well prepared for such an eventuality. Cyprus cake walks are a thing of the past.

[DT.]

Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more.

I'd steer clear of percentages and decimal points if I were you.

I found this article last night. I wondered if Yfreds reference to 'that percentage' came from here?

I highlight it in red.

"
MICHAEL STEPHEN
Michael Stephen is Master of Laws (LL M) of the Inner Temple Barrister and a former member of
the British House of Commons. He is also member of the Royal Institute of International Affairs,
Chatham House and author of The Cyprus Question, London, 1997.
The crux of the current Cyprus problem is not the failure of Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots to
reach agreement, but the internationalisation of the issue, and the failure of the international
community to recognise the enormity of the injustice done for nearly forty years to the Turkish
Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots and by the international community itself. The failure of the
international community to acknowledge the reality of Cyprus and to refrain from seeking to impose
its own framework for a solution, starting from the fiction that there is today only one state and only
one government in the island, has made a Cyprus settlement impossible. Until this international
attitude changes, no amount of talks or diplomatic pressure will succeed or will deserve to succeed.
If the Turkish Cypriots are to engage in further talks, these must be with the Americans and, to a
lesser extent, with the British and the EU, who have the power to change the international status quo.
It is a fallacy to suppose that the UN has any substantive role to play, but if realistic international
conditions were to be established, talks under UN auspices could be resumed with reasonable
prospects of success.
The fundamental cause of the problem is that the international community has been, and still is,
willing to overlook a systematic attempt at genocide by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 and again in
1964, 1967 and 1974, and the destruction by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 of the republic which was
established by the 1960 Constitution and guaranteed by international Treaty. They have also been
willing to overlook the fact that for 11 years after 1963 the Turkish Cypriots were driven from their
homes, farms and businesses, and squeezed into defended enclaves comprising only three percent of
the island, deprived of the basic necessities of modern life - all this despite the existence of a solemn
international guarantee and UN troops actually in Cyprus since 1964.
Greek Cypriot policy after 1963 was summarised as follows in Fileleftheros on 20th September
1992:
"We the Greek Cypriots are now in full control of the government. We do not have the
Vice-President with his veto or the three Turkish Cypriot Ministers in it. All the Ministers are
Greeks. Our government is the only one recognised internationally - why should we bring the
Turkish Cypriots back in? The Turkish Cypriots today control only 3% of the land. They have no
rich resources and they are living through difficult times from an economic point of view. They will
ultimately have to accept our point of view - or go."

As I keep saying,the majority of the GCs have not learned the lessons from 1950,1963,1974...They still think if they can squeeze the TCs hard enough they will give up and go away...With this attitude,the worse in the bloody Cyprus tragedy is yet to come,I am afraid...

You are right. That's a worrying thought. I dont know why I bother sometimes.

You 2 caught in the remake of the muppet shows act with the 2 old guys again?

Who the hell is squeezing the TC's? You've got a CY President that has offered everything but the kitchen sink and you've got Turkey on the other hand asking for citizenships for 70m Turks and seprate FIR"s, no land offer and a confederatio rather than a federation.

Leave this forum for a second and look at whats going on in the real world.

[Get Real!]

As I keep saying,the majority of the GCs have not learned the lessons from 1950,1963,1974...They still think if they can squeeze the TCs hard enough they will give up and go away...With this attitude,the worse in the bloody Cyprus tragedy is yet to come,I am afraid...

You are right. That's a worrying thought. I dont know why I bother sometimes.

Why shouldn’t the TCs be squeezed? Are they not aiding and abetting the internationally condemned invader/occupier of Cyprus?

Are they not the accessory of Turkey’s 35 year old blackmail depriving 180,000 odd people from their rightful properties?

[Malapapa]

Explain to the forum, how could the TCs avoid this here loving economic suffocation you are advocating which is the continuation of your lovely Tpapa policy.

Operate within the law.

Whilst the current talks are still ongoing, what you are suggesting is a parallel line of attack which many would class as coercion. You cannot claim to be negotiating with someone while holding a gun at their heads.

Ah, so are you advocating the taking away of the 40,000 guns held by your soldier-boy heroes?

By all means assault the TRNC commercially, with the full support of the law, and bring it to its knees, if you think it will achieve your aims, but spare us the hypocracy of the talks. Your Pres should stand up, say "see you in court" and walk away.
Anything else is two-faced.

No, the talks have their use. After all, we are reasonable, civilised people and always willing to respond to legitimate concerns and suggestions.

[YFred]

Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more.

I'd steer clear of percentages and decimal points if I were you.

I found this article last night. I wondered if Yfreds reference to 'that percentage' came from here?

I highlight it in red.

"
MICHAEL STEPHEN
Michael Stephen is Master of Laws (LL M) of the Inner Temple Barrister and a former member of
the British House of Commons. He is also member of the Royal Institute of International Affairs,
Chatham House and author of The Cyprus Question, London, 1997.
The crux of the current Cyprus problem is not the failure of Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots to
reach agreement, but the internationalisation of the issue, and the failure of the international
community to recognise the enormity of the injustice done for nearly forty years to the Turkish
Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots and by the international community itself. The failure of the
international community to acknowledge the reality of Cyprus and to refrain from seeking to impose
its own framework for a solution, starting from the fiction that there is today only one state and only
one government in the island, has made a Cyprus settlement impossible. Until this international
attitude changes, no amount of talks or diplomatic pressure will succeed or will deserve to succeed.
If the Turkish Cypriots are to engage in further talks, these must be with the Americans and, to a
lesser extent, with the British and the EU, who have the power to change the international status quo.
It is a fallacy to suppose that the UN has any substantive role to play, but if realistic international
conditions were to be established, talks under UN auspices could be resumed with reasonable
prospects of success.
The fundamental cause of the problem is that the international community has been, and still is,
willing to overlook a systematic attempt at genocide by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 and again in
1964, 1967 and 1974, and the destruction by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 of the republic which was
established by the 1960 Constitution and guaranteed by international Treaty. They have also been
willing to overlook the fact that for 11 years after 1963 the Turkish Cypriots were driven from their
homes, farms and businesses, and squeezed into defended enclaves comprising only three percent of
the island, deprived of the basic necessities of modern life - all this despite the existence of a solemn
international guarantee and UN troops actually in Cyprus since 1964.
Greek Cypriot policy after 1963 was summarised as follows in Fileleftheros on 20th September
1992:
"We the Greek Cypriots are now in full control of the government. We do not have the
Vice-President with his veto or the three Turkish Cypriot Ministers in it. All the Ministers are
Greeks. Our government is the only one recognised internationally - why should we bring the
Turkish Cypriots back in? The Turkish Cypriots today control only 3% of the land. They have no
rich resources and they are living through difficult times from an economic point of view. They will
ultimately have to accept our point of view - or go."

As I keep saying,the majority of the GCs have not learned the lessons from 1950,1963,1974...They still think if they can squeeze the TCs hard enough they will give up and go away...With this attitude,the worse in the bloody Cyprus tragedy is yet to come,I am afraid...

You are right. That's a worrying thought. I dont know why I bother sometimes.

You 2 caught in the remake of the muppet shows act with the 2 old guys again?

Who the hell is squeezing the TC's? You've got a CY President that has offered everything but the kitchen sink and you've got Turkey on the other hand asking for citizenships for 70m Turks and seprate FIR"s, no land offer and a confederatio rather than a federation.

Leave this forum for a second and look at whats going on in the real world.

Thanks Deniz, but really it is not necessary. There is no need to prove our lives. We lived it and they can ignore it at their expense.
It's alright DT, back to your cage mate. You are actually trying to laugh at realities of the time which I have personal experience, trying to ridicule it. Who is the fool?
There is nothing like an educated fool. Karacahil, seni gidi kopek.

[vaughanwilliams]

Explain to the forum, how could the TCs avoid this here loving economic suffocation you are advocating which is the continuation of your lovely Tpapa policy.

Operate within the law.

Whilst the current talks are still ongoing, what you are suggesting is a parallel line of attack which many would class as coercion. You cannot claim to be negotiating with someone while holding a gun at their heads.

Or 40,000, now who's the hypocrite

In any case whats it to you, scumbag cheapskate carpetbagger??

The 40,000 you refer to are not negotiating with anyone. Their mission is clear and unequivocal. There is nothing two-faced about them, make no mistake. They mean what they say.
BTW, calling people names just weakens your debating stance, you inbred, limp-wristed, knob-end.

[DT.]

Thanks Deniz, but really it is not necessary. There is no need to prove our lives. We lived it and they can ignore it at their expense.
It's alright DT, back to your cage mate. You are actually trying to laugh at realities of the time which I have personal experience, trying to ridicule it. Who is the fool?
There is nothing like an educated fool. Karacahil, seni gidi kopek.

And to think, you were once the fastest sperm in the pack. What happened?

[YFred]

I found this article last night. I wondered if Yfreds reference to 'that percentage' came from here?

The % figure of the area of the enclaves in 64 comes from a UN document and is a UN figure. Years ago I spent the necessary hours tracking it down and finding out the exact UN document number it is contained in. If necessary I could do it all over again, but whats the point, in a couple more years time the same arguement will be had here in the same place with largely the same people. From memory the figure was 2.5% and not 3% but I cant swear to that.

Erol, trying to educate "Karacahils" is an impossible task. Don't waste your time.

[YFred]

Explain to the forum, how could the TCs avoid this here loving economic suffocation you are advocating which is the continuation of your lovely Tpapa policy.

Operate within the law.

Whilst the current talks are still ongoing, what you are suggesting is a parallel line of attack which many would class as coercion. You cannot claim to be negotiating with someone while holding a gun at their heads.

Or 40,000, now who's the hypocrite

In any case whats it to you, scumbag cheapskate carpetbagger??

The 40,000 you refer to are not negotiating with anyone. Their mission is clear and unequivocal. There is nothing two-faced about them, make no mistake. They mean what they say.
BTW, calling people names just weakens your debating stance, you inbred, limp-wristed, knob-end.

No, VW a knobend sees too much pleasure, a pile suffering constipated arsehole is more apt.