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ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby denizaksulu » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:42 pm

Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more. :wink:


In case you hadn't realised, YFred. This is war. If you are an innocent civilian get yourself out of the firing line. But if you side with the invader and the outlaws then you are a legitimate target. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.



That is exactly what you are planning all the time. One way or the other to squeeze the TCs off the island. For once I agree with Yfred and re-iterate his statement that you are pushing the TCs into Turkeys arms. You are so blinded by hatred that you cant see this.ffs. :roll:
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby Malapapa » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:48 pm

YFred wrote:Explain to the forum, how could the TCs avoid this here loving economic suffocation you are advocating which is the continuation of your lovely Tpapa policy.


Operate within the law.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby Malapapa » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:58 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more. :wink:


In case you hadn't realised, YFred. This is war. If you are an innocent civilian get yourself out of the firing line. But if you side with the invader and the outlaws then you are a legitimate target. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.



That is exactly what you are planning all the time. One way or the other to squeeze the TCs off the island. For once I agree with Yfred and re-iterate his statement that you are pushing the TCs into Turkeys arms. You are so blinded by hatred that you cant see this.ffs. :roll:


I hate illegalities and injustice; not TCs who in the main - those I've met - are lovely people.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby erolz3 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:43 pm

denizaksulu wrote:I found this article last night. I wondered if Yfreds reference to 'that percentage' came from here?


The % figure of the area of the enclaves in 64 comes from a UN document and is a UN figure. Years ago I spent the necessary hours tracking it down and finding out the exact UN document number it is contained in. If necessary I could do it all over again, but whats the point, in a couple more years time the same arguement will be had here in the same place with largely the same people. From memory the figure was 2.5% and not 3% but I cant swear to that.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby denizaksulu » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:00 pm

erolz3 wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:I found this article last night. I wondered if Yfreds reference to 'that percentage' came from here?


The % figure of the area of the enclaves in 64 comes from a UN document and is a UN figure. Years ago I spent the necessary hours tracking it down and finding out the exact UN document number it is contained in. If necessary I could do it all over again, but whats the point, in a couple more years time the same arguement will be had here in the same place with largely the same people. From memory the figure was 2.5% and not 3% but I cant swear to that.



The UN report may be the source of Michael Stephens article.

See my PM
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby vaughanwilliams » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:07 pm

Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:Explain to the forum, how could the TCs avoid this here loving economic suffocation you are advocating which is the continuation of your lovely Tpapa policy.


Operate within the law.


Whilst the current talks are still ongoing, what you are suggesting is a parallel line of attack which many would class as coercion. You cannot claim to be negotiating with someone while holding a gun at their heads.
By all means assault the TRNC commercially, with the full support of the law, and bring it to its knees, if you think it will achieve your aims, but spare us the hypocracy of the talks. Your Pres should stand up, say "see you in court" and walk away.
Anything else is two-faced. :oops:
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:13 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more. :wink:


I'd steer clear of percentages and decimal points if I were you. :lol:


I found this article last night. I wondered if Yfreds reference to 'that percentage' came from here?

I highlight it in red.

"
MICHAEL STEPHEN
Michael Stephen is Master of Laws (LL M) of the Inner Temple Barrister and a former member of
the British House of Commons. He is also member of the Royal Institute of International Affairs,
Chatham House and author of The Cyprus Question, London, 1997.
The crux of the current Cyprus problem is not the failure of Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots to
reach agreement, but the internationalisation of the issue, and the failure of the international
community to recognise the enormity of the injustice done for nearly forty years to the Turkish
Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots and by the international community itself. The failure of the
international community to acknowledge the reality of Cyprus and to refrain from seeking to impose
its own framework for a solution, starting from the fiction that there is today only one state and only
one government in the island, has made a Cyprus settlement impossible. Until this international
attitude changes, no amount of talks or diplomatic pressure will succeed or will deserve to succeed.
If the Turkish Cypriots are to engage in further talks, these must be with the Americans and, to a
lesser extent, with the British and the EU, who have the power to change the international status quo.
It is a fallacy to suppose that the UN has any substantive role to play, but if realistic international
conditions were to be established, talks under UN auspices could be resumed with reasonable
prospects of success.
The fundamental cause of the problem is that the international community has been, and still is,
willing to overlook a systematic attempt at genocide by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 and again in
1964, 1967 and 1974, and the destruction by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 of the republic which was
established by the 1960 Constitution and guaranteed by international Treaty. They have also been
willing to overlook the fact that for 11 years after 1963 the Turkish Cypriots were driven from their
homes, farms and businesses, and squeezed into defended enclaves comprising only three percent of
the island,
deprived of the basic necessities of modern life - all this despite the existence of a solemn
international guarantee and UN troops actually in Cyprus since 1964.
Greek Cypriot policy after 1963 was summarised as follows in Fileleftheros on 20th September
1992:
"We the Greek Cypriots are now in full control of the government. We do not have the
Vice-President with his veto or the three Turkish Cypriot Ministers in it. All the Ministers are
Greeks. Our government is the only one recognised internationally - why should we bring the
Turkish Cypriots back in? The Turkish Cypriots today control only 3% of the land. They have no
rich resources and they are living through difficult times from an economic point of view. They will
ultimately have to accept our point of view - or go."


As I keep saying,the majority of the GCs have not learned the lessons from 1950,1963,1974...They still think if they can squeeze the TCs hard enough they will give up and go away...With this attitude,the worse in the bloody Cyprus tragedy is yet to come,I am afraid... :(
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby B25 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:20 pm

vaughanwilliams wrote:
Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:Explain to the forum, how could the TCs avoid this here loving economic suffocation you are advocating which is the continuation of your lovely Tpapa policy.


Operate within the law.


Whilst the current talks are still ongoing, what you are suggesting is a parallel line of attack which many would class as coercion. You cannot claim to be negotiating with someone while holding a gun at their heads.


Or 40,000, now who's the hypocrite :wink:

In any case whats it to you, scumbag cheapskate carpetbagger??
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby DT. » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:22 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
erolz3 wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:I found this article last night. I wondered if Yfreds reference to 'that percentage' came from here?


The % figure of the area of the enclaves in 64 comes from a UN document and is a UN figure. Years ago I spent the necessary hours tracking it down and finding out the exact UN document number it is contained in. If necessary I could do it all over again, but whats the point, in a couple more years time the same arguement will be had here in the same place with largely the same people. From memory the figure was 2.5% and not 3% but I cant swear to that.



The UN report may be the source of Michael Stephens article.

See my PM


I would love to see a UN report on this as we all know where Michael Stephens and his so-called "empolyment in the UK parliament" affections lie.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby Get Real! » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:22 pm

Malapapa wrote:I hate illegalities and injustice; not TCs who in the main - those I've met - are lovely people.

:? The Turkish Cypriots are the SOURCE of the majority of injustices being committed on Cyprus...

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle24.htm
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