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ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby Malapapa » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:25 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Malapapa wrote:In case you hadn't realised, YFred. This is war. If you are an innocent civilian get yourself out of the firing line. But if you side with the invader and the outlaws then you are a legitimate target. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.


According to Iceman - remember him - the facility on Limassol sea front known as the 'Kyrenia Sailing Club', which is used by foreign tourists, has been built without the owner's permission on Turkish Cypriot land. Remember that the law of necessity works in both directions.


The price of war is to accept casualties. Those who have exposed themselves to return fire are vulnerable and need also to take cover.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby Malapapa » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:00 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more. :wink:


I agree with you there. Testing the validity of exchange title in the international courts - and especially sales to foreign nationals based on such title - is one thing, but to engage in what will be perceived as economic warfare is another matter entirely.


Perceived by who? A large part of Europe was occupied by the Nazis during WWII. If necessary, these countries will need to be reminded how their lands were eventually liberated and the role their resistance movements played, both at home and abroad. Perhaps the British, who never experienced such suffering, don't understand fully.

So, what was the point of wasting seven years developing a powerful weapon of mass disruption - at huge cost and not without risk - if it isn't going to be moved into theatre and applied as a deterrent?
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Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:06 pm

Malapapa - you have to decide whether you consider this to be a war between Cypriots and Turkey, or between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots.
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Postby Malapapa » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:17 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:Malapapa - you have to decide whether you consider this to be a war between Cypriots and Turkey, or between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots.


The former, for sure. And those who side with Turkey.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby YFred » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:21 pm

Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more. :wink:


In case you hadn't realised, YFred. This is war. If you are an innocent civilian get yourself out of the firing line. But if you side with the invader and the outlaws then you are a legitimate target. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.

A little bit like Gaza with Israel. They dropped leafletts and told them to get out of the way. Yeah Where?

You are on a war path fighting a war you will lose.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby YFred » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:24 pm

Malapapa wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Malapapa wrote:In case you hadn't realised, YFred. This is war. If you are an innocent civilian get yourself out of the firing line. But if you side with the invader and the outlaws then you are a legitimate target. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.


According to Iceman - remember him - the facility on Limassol sea front known as the 'Kyrenia Sailing Club', which is used by foreign tourists, has been built without the owner's permission on Turkish Cypriot land. Remember that the law of necessity works in both directions.


The price of war is to accept casualties. Those who have exposed themselves to return fire are vulnerable and need also to take cover.

It's a war you cannot win. Carry on camping with the rest of your bash patriots. You have now been re-categorised.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby YFred » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:26 pm

DT. wrote:
boomerang wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more. :wink:


I'd steer clear of percentages and decimal points if I were you. :lol:


why?... :lol:


Yfred's 2.5% fiasco. You don't know it? Wanna see it? :D

You are very brave. Please tell us what the official roc pecentage was then?
Asshole.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby Malapapa » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:30 pm

YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more. :wink:


In case you hadn't realised, YFred. This is war. If you are an innocent civilian get yourself out of the firing line. But if you side with the invader and the outlaws then you are a legitimate target. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.

A little bit like Gaza with Israel. They dropped leafletts and told them to get out of the way. Yeah Where?


If you're an EU citizen, as are all TCs by virtue of the Republic's accession in 2004, the civilised world is your oyster.

YFred wrote:You are on a war path fighting a war you will lose.


Funny. All the battles have been won since 2004.
Last edited by Malapapa on Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby YFred » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:32 pm

Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more. :wink:


In case you hadn't realised, YFred. This is war. If you are an innocent civilian get yourself out of the firing line. But if you side with the invader and the outlaws then you are a legitimate target. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.

A little bit like Gaza with Israel. They dropped leafletts and told them to get out of the way. Yeah Where?


If you're an EU citizen, as are all TCs by virtue of the Republic's accession in 2004, the civilised world is your oyster.

YFred wrote:You are on a war path fighting a war you will lose.


Funny. All the battles have been won since 2004.[/GVideo]

Explain to the forum, how could the TCs avoid this here loving economic suffocation you are advocating which is the continuation of your lovely Tpapa policy.
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Re: ATOL/ABTA and the "TRNC"

Postby denizaksulu » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:36 pm

DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Does ATOL (UK Air Travel Organisers' Licensing) and ABTA (UK Travel Association) cover tour operators to the self-styled ‘TRNC’ – that part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus illegally invaded, occupied and settled by Turkey?

The vast majority of property in the ‘TRNC’ area, over which the Republic of Cyprus maintains legal jurisdiction, rightfully belongs to Cypriots displaced by Turkey’s invasion. This includes most holiday accommodation.

Following the recent high profile Orams case, holidaymakers to the ‘TRNC’ and their tour operators now face the real prospect of legal claims for trespass, and these claims are enforceable against them in the UK and throughout the EU.

The ATOL and ABTA names lend considerable credibility to tour operators and the holidays they offer. I would have thought neither ATOL nor ABTA would want their good names associated with operators selling holidays that can unwittingly land the public in expensive foreign litigation.

What do others think?

ATOL
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27
[email protected]

ABTA
http://www.abta.com/contact-us

You do yourselves no favour with just thinking about this never mind taking action. You are driving the TCs towards Turkey. Don't ever say you haven't been warned.
If your intentions are to starve the TCs to submission, it will not work. You will lose 37.5% of cyprus if not more. :wink:


I'd steer clear of percentages and decimal points if I were you. :lol:


I found this article last night. I wondered if Yfreds reference to 'that percentage' came from here?

I highlight it in red.

"
MICHAEL STEPHEN
Michael Stephen is Master of Laws (LL M) of the Inner Temple Barrister and a former member of
the British House of Commons. He is also member of the Royal Institute of International Affairs,
Chatham House and author of The Cyprus Question, London, 1997.
The crux of the current Cyprus problem is not the failure of Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots to
reach agreement, but the internationalisation of the issue, and the failure of the international
community to recognise the enormity of the injustice done for nearly forty years to the Turkish
Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots and by the international community itself. The failure of the
international community to acknowledge the reality of Cyprus and to refrain from seeking to impose
its own framework for a solution, starting from the fiction that there is today only one state and only
one government in the island, has made a Cyprus settlement impossible. Until this international
attitude changes, no amount of talks or diplomatic pressure will succeed or will deserve to succeed.
If the Turkish Cypriots are to engage in further talks, these must be with the Americans and, to a
lesser extent, with the British and the EU, who have the power to change the international status quo.
It is a fallacy to suppose that the UN has any substantive role to play, but if realistic international
conditions were to be established, talks under UN auspices could be resumed with reasonable
prospects of success.
The fundamental cause of the problem is that the international community has been, and still is,
willing to overlook a systematic attempt at genocide by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 and again in
1964, 1967 and 1974, and the destruction by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 of the republic which was
established by the 1960 Constitution and guaranteed by international Treaty. They have also been
willing to overlook the fact that for 11 years after 1963 the Turkish Cypriots were driven from their
homes, farms and businesses, and squeezed into defended enclaves comprising only three percent of
the island,
deprived of the basic necessities of modern life - all this despite the existence of a solemn
international guarantee and UN troops actually in Cyprus since 1964.
Greek Cypriot policy after 1963 was summarised as follows in Fileleftheros on 20th September
1992:
"We the Greek Cypriots are now in full control of the government. We do not have the
Vice-President with his veto or the three Turkish Cypriot Ministers in it. All the Ministers are
Greeks. Our government is the only one recognised internationally - why should we bring the
Turkish Cypriots back in? The Turkish Cypriots today control only 3% of the land. They have no
rich resources and they are living through difficult times from an economic point of view. They will
ultimately have to accept our point of view - or go."
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