Cyprus-Forum.com

[Malapapa]

I would have thought a large Armenian presence...

[halil]

Next saturday I will go to Armenochori village to see my daugher father in law properties, to find the ways how we can deal for future, first we will try to talk present occupiers of the houses and lands than we can decide what we can do about it . I will put pictures of the houses and lands in here too . we will be open to any settlement . they don't occuppy any GC land in north.

Was Armenochori 100% Turkish Cypriot at one time?

Yes Tim ..... and it was called Esenköy too.

[B25]

Next saturday I will go to Armenochori village to see my daugher father in law properties, to find the ways how we can deal for future, first we will try to talk present occupiers of the houses and lands than we can decide what we can do about it . I will put pictures of the houses and lands in here too . we will be open to any settlement . they don't occuppy any GC land in north.

I think you guys are continually taking the piss, why do you expect to get your properties back now, when you don't afford the same rights to the GCs??

the RoC should tell you all to go jump, guy sure, you are entitled to their return, BUT, you will get them when we can also get ours.

This is just typical of you TCs want want want, give nothing in return.

DT, I don't understand why you support this return of their properties at this time, you just know for sure you will only be allowed to look on yours from afar.

Why have all the GCs gone soft, these guys are shafting us left right and centre, yet you still support them, why???

I just don't understand you.

[cymart]

Is there any connection with the T.C's from Armenokhori as I don't think they were up there when I visited it a few years ago?

[aussieturk]

Next saturday I will go to Armenochori village to see my daugher father in law properties, to find the ways how we can deal for future, first we will try to talk present occupiers of the houses and lands than we can decide what we can do about it . I will put pictures of the houses and lands in here too . we will be open to any settlement . they don't occuppy any GC land in north.

I think you guys are continually taking the piss, why do you expect to get your properties back now, when you don't afford the same rights to the GCs??

the RoC should tell you all to go jump, guy sure, you are entitled to their return, BUT, you will get them when we can also get ours.

This is just typical of you TCs want want want, give nothing in return.

DT, I don't understand why you support this return of their properties at this time, you just know for sure you will only be allowed to look on yours from afar.

Why have all the GCs gone soft, these guys are shafting us left right and centre, yet you still support them, why???

I just don't understand you.

You miss the point B25, when a solution is found on properties there are going to be many unhappy GC's, who have to give up houses they built on TC land. I know my mothers village, near Larnaca has been demolished and rebuilt with new housing, and I am coming to reclaim it

[halil]

Next saturday I will go to Armenochori village to see my daugher father in law properties, to find the ways how we can deal for future, first we will try to talk present occupiers of the houses and lands than we can decide what we can do about it . I will put pictures of the houses and lands in here too . we will be open to any settlement . they don't occuppy any GC land in north.

I think you guys are continually taking the piss, why do you expect to get your properties back now, when you don't afford the same rights to the GCs??

the RoC should tell you all to go jump, guy sure, you are entitled to their return, BUT, you will get them when we can also get ours.

This is just typical of you TCs want want want, give nothing in return.

DT, I don't understand why you support this return of their properties at this time, you just know for sure you will only be allowed to look on yours from afar.

Why have all the GCs gone soft, these guys are shafting us left right and centre, yet you still support them, why???

I just don't understand you.

You miss the point B25, when a solution is found on properties there are going to be many unhappy GC's, who have to give up houses they built on TC land. I know my mothers village, near Larnaca has been demolished and rebuilt with new housing, and I am coming to reclaim it

very lately they built up on our one .... wait i will put picture of the villa next week in here.

[Piratis]

The "IPC" was created by Turkey in an effort to buy time, and we both know this.

I disagree Piratis. The IPC was mandated by the ECHR. Turkey may play for time and test the 'boundries' of where this solution becomes acceptable to the ECHR as a valid local remedy but it knows that ultimately it will have to make it so.

The ECHR has to close cases. It can not close the existing cases against Turkey until such time as a mechanism is put in place that offers GC who have taken their cases to the ECHR to have a valid local means of redress for the loss of use and enjoyment of their property. The IPC is ITS meathod of doing this which will allow it to close the cases already ruled on as far as indivdual compensation and redress but that are still open as regards the wider issue of ongoing denial by Turkey of rights to use and enjoyment etc. It has to close existing cases and it wants to divert the 1000's of others listed to such a body. The ECHR remains the driving force behind the the IPC. Turkey may delay and provaricate on getting to this stage and to a degree has done so already but ultimately there is no escape from this process, not for Turkey short of leaving the CoE or for the ECHR.

The ECHR process is already a long one. Forcing people to apply first to some "IPC" and then to ECHR could double that time.

The Turkish side today insists that in a future "TC component state" the TCs should be the majority of the population and own the majority of land. If this "IPC" acts in the same way as the ECHR (which it should, if it is to be an acceptable remedy) then such thing will undermine their aim.

Even if Turkey could afford to compensate 200.000 refugees instead of giving them their land back (and she doesn't afford this), this will not be an acceptable remedy unless the GC refugee agrees for it. You can be certain that most refugees will not.

What I expect is that Turkey will try to convince the ECHR with a few example cases at the "IPC". If she does, then soon after the "IPC" will not provide an adequate remedy and the GC refugees will end up back in the ECHR. Then Turkey will claim that they "corrected" their "IPC", offering a few more example cases ... and so on and so forth.

All these could take many decades, and this is what Turkey hopes for.

This is why cases that can be quickly resolved in the Cyprus Courts are much preferable now.

[erolz3]

What I expect is that Turkey will try to convince the ECHR with a few example cases at the "IPC". If she does, then soon after the "IPC" will not provide an adequate remedy and the GC refugees will end up back in the ECHR. Then Turkey will claim that they "corrected" their "IPC", offering a few more example cases ... and so on and so forth.

All these could take many decades, and this is what Turkey hopes for.

This is no different to the situation for TC and RoC courts essentialy. Take a TC whos land was compulsarily purchased by the RoC post 74. To claim redress they first have to go to the RoC courts, who will probably through out the case, saying compensation can only be paid after a settlement. Then they goto the ECHR. Probably the RoC will wait until the case is just about to be heard and then try and settle, as they did in the recent case. If they eventual remove the block on paying compenstaion regardless of a settlement then the next TC to claim will get an offer of such from the RoC courts. If they feel that offer is not fair they will then have to go to the ECHR and argue thier case there.

This is why cases that can be quickly resolved in the Cyprus Courts are much preferable now.

Some limited 'redress' can be achieved by this route, first getting a prosecution against someone in RoC courts and if necessary having the ruling applied in other EU courts against EU assets but it can not offer return, the IPC can. It all depends on what the claimant wants.

There is also a double dipping issue here. A claimant that has recived compenstation from the trespasser for use of their land can not then also claim compensation from Turkey for loss of use of that land in the same period that they have already recieved compensation for from the trespasser, at least as far as I can see.

[Kikapu]

The reality is, is that the IPC is the ECHR solution as to how Turkey can meet its obligations a member of the CoE. If the IPC is found to not offer a form of valid local redress by the ECHR, then the ECHR will demand that Turkey change it until it is.

We already found a better (even from ECHR) and extremely fast way to deal with this issue. It is called Cyprus Courts. And guess what, it doesn't have to be about Human Rights violations only, it can be about any kind of illegality.

So expect those 10 Billions worth of TC properties that Kifeas talked about to gradually come legally to the hands of GCs, not as an "exchange" for our land in the occupied areas, but as fees and penalties the TCs will have to keep paying after found guilty by the courts of Cyprus.

I don't see Paaul12 laughing anymore.!:wink:

I wonder why.!

I'm sure YFred and his clan will be in the south soon to take back all their land in the south, since he claims that his family is not holding any GC land in the north.!

Come to think about it, why haven't they already been in the south putting in their claim since the Orams ruling.?

[Viewpoint]

More tcs Will do exactly that reclaim their properties how will gcs stop double dipping?