Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

DT

I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up with a Turkish shadow over them and a possible future intervention due to some paranoia issues the TC's still feel.

I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up in a country where the Leader of the state holds his position due to his ethnic background not his ability.

I will not however vote for a solution where people that are alien to this land are considered with more humanity than people who belong in this land.

Typical Cypriot father, ready to sacrifice everything for his kids. Strong words but others have kids too and my children soon will have kids too and this argument - putting kids first - falls down the hole. Please stop this pathetic argument with the clear insinuation that because we do not have young kids we do not care about the future of Cyprus.

In reality, our general ideological outlook and upbringing, has nothing to do with our offsprings but has most to do with our ideological outlook to various issues with rationality used as a fine correcting mechanism.

I was raised in an environment where internationalism was the holiest of everything. I have passed on this to my sons (that is the only thing I "passed on" to them). I will never give up internationalism. It is ingrained in my genes. My basic believes concern (a) Marxist theory as used in the analysis of social and historical events (b) Freud’s theory in explaining human behaviour due to factor that are independent of the conscious mind, and (c) Darwin’s evolution theory with natural selection as its main tool.

I firmly believe that these are the values that make me who I am. My kids’ welfare (spiritual above all) is extremely safe within these parameters. If they have a Turkish Cypriot President in a rotating presidency system, so much the better. Their welfare will not be jeopardised in any way, especially when you consider the environment in which they will be living, with all important decisions of many aspects taken by Brussels. I know many Cypriots who were raised in different environments where Turks are considered our perpetual enemy and that Greek and Turk can never co exist. Schools and the all powerful church have contributed greatly to this effect. Some of them write in this forum and only hatred comes out of their keyboards.

Talking about welfare, what will really put the welfare of every body to risk will be the continuation of the impasse and absence of solution. Especially, if we were to choose this path with the mistaken belief that the balance of power will change and we will liberate Cyprus with other means.

DT, can you tell us whom you consider to be extremist in this forum, since you made reference to them in your answer to Bir’s post?

[DT.]

DT

I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up with a Turkish shadow over them and a possible future intervention due to some paranoia issues the TC's still feel.

I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up in a country where the Leader of the state holds his position due to his ethnic background not his ability.

I will not however vote for a solution where people that are alien to this land are considered with more humanity than people who belong in this land.

Typical Cypriot father, ready to sacrifice everything for his kids. Strong words but others have kids too and my children soon will have kids too and this argument - putting kids first - falls down the hole. Please stop this pathetic argument with the clear insinuation that because we do not have young kids we do not care about the future of Cyprus.

In reality, our general ideological outlook and upbringing, has nothing to do with our offsprings but has most to do with our ideological outlook to various issues with rationality used as a fine correcting mechanism.

I was raised in an environment where internationalism was the holiest of everything. I have passed on this to my sons (that is the only thing I "passed on" to them). I will never give up internationalism. It is ingrained in my genes. My basic believes concern (a) Marxist theory as used in the analysis of social and historical events (b) Freud’s theory in explaining human behaviour due to factor that are independent of the conscious mind, and (c) Darwin’s evolution theory with natural selection as its main tool.

I firmly believe that these are the values that make me who I am. My kids’ welfare (spiritual above all) is extremely safe within these parameters. If they have a Turkish Cypriot President in a rotating presidency system, so much the better. Their welfare will not be jeopardised in any way, especially when you consider the environment in which they will be living, with all important decisions of many aspects taken by Brussels. I know many Cypriots who were raised in different environments where Turks are considered our perpetual enemy and that Greek and Turk can never co exist. Schools and the all powerful church have contributed greatly to this effect. Some of them write in this forum and only hatred comes out of their keyboards.

Talking about welfare, what will really put the welfare of every body to risk will be the continuation of the impasse and absence of solution. Especially, if we were to choose this path with the mistaken belief that the balance of power will change and we will liberate Cyprus with other means.

DT, can you tell us whom you consider to be extremist in this forum, since you made reference to them in your answer to Bir’s post?

I have no issues with your internationalism, marxism, darwinism or freudism. All perfectly sensible theories, notions and beliefs and if you've found a way for them all to co-exist within you without requiring some basic practical wants and needs that us mere mortals are forced to include then kudo's for you.

What I have said repeatedly is that you are a spent force within the GC community. This narrow minded, paranoid, "victimised", materialist community you choose to live in. I emphasise the word choose because I am surprised a man as enlightened as yourself would choose to remain in this land of Koutsou's and Nicolas's.

You failed to respond to my concerns regarding my kids future because of new Turkish intervention. An action that would be perctly legal if a new treaty is signed and one which may be quite probable considering
1) Turkey's knack of "bending" agreements to suit geopolitical interests
2) A community as volatile and bash patriotic as you describe would surely start something up to envoke another attempt by Turkey to protect its minions.

Since you have so little faith in this community, why put their naive materialistic arses in harms way by agreeing to a treaty that is sure to cause mayhem?

Never mind, I don't wish to criticise you anymore Bananiot, perhaps you are at a level where we need to reach in the future, perhaps you are the first of an evolution cycle where according to Darwinism the Cypriots need to be wiped b y natural selection and you're our first Chief Lemming.

One question Bananiot, if you were given the power to erase history and all Turkish trace from Cyprus from 1570 onwards, no troubles in the 60's no invasion,....would you do it?

BTW regarding extremists Yialousa and VP are 2 examples.

[BirKibrisli]

I didn't jump on this "honest" mistake Bir even though it was anything BUT honest. Bananiots preferences are those that make me and my community second class citizens on this island. I find that racist. I know his positions on the CYprob and I fully disagree with them and find them racist to the GC ethnic community.

On the other hand I have come to a full agreement on the Cyprob with many others over my time on this forum including Big Oz, Deniz, Kikapu and with you (last year). These positions that these individuals held however were nothing as one-sided as what Bananiot has been offering up.

As for Georgia, perhaps you mistook me for someone else but where did I say that I agreed with what the goverment did there? I think you will find I am one of the biggest critics of this govt and indeed of most GC politicians.

Now as far as empathy is concerned Bir, I'm surprised you have time to think about that considering that for the past 2 months you've been repeating the chant that the TC's have suffered 6 times more than the GC's. I can do that empathy as well. The TC's have no idea what real suffering is, hows that?

What do you want Bananiot to tell you,to make him acceptable in your eyes,DT?

That the TCs were never invited,that they were the oppressors for 400 plus years???

Listen Bir, you and Bananiot might have an easy task with some of the extremists around here but with me you need to use a little logic and facts. When did I ever mention 400 years? oppression?

That they had no legitimate right to oppose Enosis with Greece???That they were only always interested in helping Turkey achieve Taksim,hence gain on your loss,because deep down they are nothing but thieves???

Again, check your facts AND who you're speaking to. WHen did i describe TC's as nothing but thieves?

That in 1963 they had no fear for their lives,but just ran away into enclaves to advance the cause of Taksim???That between 1963 and 74 they had perfectly happly lives,waiting for Turkey to invade??? That the TCs had nothing to fear from the 74 coup and the man who was installed as President,a murdering EOKA thug called Sampson???

Once again, if you look back at my posts I had acknowledged the wrongs the fanatics and govt had committed early on.

That the TCs have no worries now we are in the EU,so they should tell Turkey to piss off and leave them alone???

Pretty much, yeah, but thats not the point here.

Have you ever considered that Bananiot is telling you the realities of the situation...???The realities you find unpalatable?? But essential to realise IF we are ever going to solve Cyprob fairly, peacefully and permanently..??? Could he be the black sheep who can see more catastrophy for the GCs on the horizon unless you wake up to certain realities??? could he be the real True Cypriot,the one who loves his country passionately enough to criticise her and want her to learn from the past mistakes???

Basically you've gone comletely down the wrong track. I hardly ever attack Bananiot for what he say's about the past. What I do attack him for is what he's willing to accept for the future. Bananiots an older generation now and his kids have grown up, I'm early 30's with 2 toddlers and have much more to lose than him right now.

WHat I always ever said unlike many here was that I'm happy with a BBF and I'm happy with protections for the TC's when it comes to laws and matters that affect them.

I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up with a Turkish shadow over them and a possible future intervention due to some paranoia issues the TC's still feel.
I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up in a country where the Leader of the state holds his position due to his ethnic background not his ability.
I will not however vote for a solution where people that are alien to this land are considered with more humanity than people who belong in this land.

Theres much more Bir but I digress, I've come to realise that you're blindy defending Bananiot with easy slogans like the ones you threw at me above (slogans that have nothing to do with me or my issues with Bananiot) because you want to preserve someone like Bananiot. That in itself is an adirable attempt, however you need a new specimen. Bananiot is burnt NOT because of the definition of history he dishes out to this forum, but because of his eagerness and callous acceptance of everything the Turkish state is proposing for the Cypriots for the FUTURE.

As I said before however, that may work with some of the others but not me. Read what I say and respond to what I say, not what you THINK I'm saying or what you WISH I was saying.

Sorry,but you got my post wrong,DT...I didn't mean those "slogans" you called them belonged to you...I was trying to point out Bananiot was very different to those who throw around those "slogans"...I was asking if you were prepared to hear something different,or were happy to keep hearing the same tired "slogans"...

Bananiot is the ultimate realist,DT...He knows that to get the Turkish army out of Cyprus we need a comprehensive solution...To have a comprehensive solution you need to make compromises...If you do not,you will always have the Turkish army breathing down your and your children's necks,and there is a risk that things might turn ugly again in the future,for your great grand children,unless we find a solution now...The man makes complete sense to me,and I hate to see him ridiculed and ostrocizeded by those fanatical idiots here who cannot see beyong their noses...You are not one of them...

[boomerang]

I didn't jump on this "honest" mistake Bir even though it was anything BUT honest. Bananiots preferences are those that make me and my community second class citizens on this island. I find that racist. I know his positions on the CYprob and I fully disagree with them and find them racist to the GC ethnic community.

On the other hand I have come to a full agreement on the Cyprob with many others over my time on this forum including Big Oz, Deniz, Kikapu and with you (last year). These positions that these individuals held however were nothing as one-sided as what Bananiot has been offering up.

As for Georgia, perhaps you mistook me for someone else but where did I say that I agreed with what the goverment did there? I think you will find I am one of the biggest critics of this govt and indeed of most GC politicians.

Now as far as empathy is concerned Bir, I'm surprised you have time to think about that considering that for the past 2 months you've been repeating the chant that the TC's have suffered 6 times more than the GC's. I can do that empathy as well. The TC's have no idea what real suffering is, hows that?

What do you want Bananiot to tell you,to make him acceptable in your eyes,DT?

That the TCs were never invited,that they were the oppressors for 400 plus years???

Listen Bir, you and Bananiot might have an easy task with some of the extremists around here but with me you need to use a little logic and facts. When did I ever mention 400 years? oppression?

That they had no legitimate right to oppose Enosis with Greece???That they were only always interested in helping Turkey achieve Taksim,hence gain on your loss,because deep down they are nothing but thieves???

Again, check your facts AND who you're speaking to. WHen did i describe TC's as nothing but thieves?

That in 1963 they had no fear for their lives,but just ran away into enclaves to advance the cause of Taksim???That between 1963 and 74 they had perfectly happly lives,waiting for Turkey to invade??? That the TCs had nothing to fear from the 74 coup and the man who was installed as President,a murdering EOKA thug called Sampson???

Once again, if you look back at my posts I had acknowledged the wrongs the fanatics and govt had committed early on.

That the TCs have no worries now we are in the EU,so they should tell Turkey to piss off and leave them alone???

Pretty much, yeah, but thats not the point here.

Have you ever considered that Bananiot is telling you the realities of the situation...???The realities you find unpalatable?? But essential to realise IF we are ever going to solve Cyprob fairly, peacefully and permanently..??? Could he be the black sheep who can see more catastrophy for the GCs on the horizon unless you wake up to certain realities??? could he be the real True Cypriot,the one who loves his country passionately enough to criticise her and want her to learn from the past mistakes???

Basically you've gone comletely down the wrong track. I hardly ever attack Bananiot for what he say's about the past. What I do attack him for is what he's willing to accept for the future. Bananiots an older generation now and his kids have grown up, I'm early 30's with 2 toddlers and have much more to lose than him right now.

WHat I always ever said unlike many here was that I'm happy with a BBF and I'm happy with protections for the TC's when it comes to laws and matters that affect them.

I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up with a Turkish shadow over them and a possible future intervention due to some paranoia issues the TC's still feel.
I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up in a country where the Leader of the state holds his position due to his ethnic background not his ability.
I will not however vote for a solution where people that are alien to this land are considered with more humanity than people who belong in this land.

Theres much more Bir but I digress, I've come to realise that you're blindy defending Bananiot with easy slogans like the ones you threw at me above (slogans that have nothing to do with me or my issues with Bananiot) because you want to preserve someone like Bananiot. That in itself is an adirable attempt, however you need a new specimen. Bananiot is burnt NOT because of the definition of history he dishes out to this forum, but because of his eagerness and callous acceptance of everything the Turkish state is proposing for the Cypriots for the FUTURE.

As I said before however, that may work with some of the others but not me. Read what I say and respond to what I say, not what you THINK I'm saying or what you WISH I was saying.

Sorry,but you got my post wrong,DT...I didn't mean those "slogans" you called them belonged to you...I was trying to point out Bananiot was very different to those who throw around those "slogans"...I was asking if you were prepared to hear something different,or were happy to keep hearing the same tired "slogans"...

Bananiot is the ultimate realist,DT...He knows that to get the Turkish army out of Cyprus we need a comprehensive solution...To have a comprehensive solution you need to make compromises...If you do not,you will always have the Turkish army breathing down your and your children's necks,and there is a risk that things might turn ugly again in the future,for your great grand children,unless we find a solution now...The man makes complete sense to me,and I hate to see him ridiculed and ostrocizeded by those fanatical idiots here who cannot see beyong their noses...You are not one of them...

solution or not you can bet your bottom dollar turkey has no desires of getting of the island...she didn't invest billions propping the north up for nothing...unless you gonna tell me they love the tcs...

this is the point you and bnaniot fail to see...

turkey wants a plan that either cements or enchances her gains...the ridiculous arguement that if a solution is found, the tcs will ask turkey to get off the island is laughable to say the least...so any plan presented that does not incorporate turkey's 2 goals ain't gonna get through...look at the latest demands put forward by turkey via talat...this alone exposes turkey's policy...

hell turkey doesn't even want recognition or annexation of the occupied territories...

[Me Ed]

I don't give a shit about the settlers, after all when they occupied my land the didn't exactly give a shit about me and my family.

Also, if the ebargos of the north caused the hardships the TC would have us to believe, why would any Turk want to move there unless they were forced?


Answers please!

[Get Real!]

Bananiot is the ultimate realist,DT...He knows that to get the Turkish army out of Cyprus we need a comprehensive solution...To have a comprehensive solution you need to make compromises...If you do not,you will always have the Turkish army breathing down your and your children's necks,...

Turkey COULDN’T CARE LESS about “comprehensive solutions” unless that “comprehensive solution” includes Turkey having a foot in Cyprus (with the TCs blessing) in which case it defeats the very purpose of your stupid “solution”!

Now please quit insulting people’s intelligence in here with your foolhardy crap and kindly return to your fish & chip shop!

[Bananiot]

How stupid! You cannot get more stupid than this. Turkey does not have one foot in Cyprus as things stand now but it has both feet, the rest of her body and her aura in Cyprus! Without solution, this will be consolidated sooner than you think, with the blessings of the international community. If you think that there is a way to get Turkey out of Cyprus altogether, please tell me and I will eat my previous words.

[DT.]

How stupid! You cannot get more stupid than this. Turkey does not have one foot in Cyprus as things stand now but it has both feet, the rest of her body and her aura in Cyprus! Without solution, this will be consolidated sooner than you think, with the blessings of the international community. If you think that there is a way to get Turkey out of Cyprus altogether, please tell me and I will eat my previous words.

Why are you so frightened of a permanent Turkish influence in Cyprus?

[BirKibrisli]

Bananiot is the ultimate realist,DT...He knows that to get the Turkish army out of Cyprus we need a comprehensive solution...To have a comprehensive solution you need to make compromises...If you do not,you will always have the Turkish army breathing down your and your children's necks,...

Turkey COULDN’T CARE LESS about “comprehensive solutions” unless that “comprehensive solution” includes Turkey having a foot in Cyprus (with the TCs blessing) in which case it defeats the very purpose of your stupid “solution”!

Now please quit insulting people’s intelligence in here with your foolhardy crap and kindly return to your fish & chip shop!

I don't see many people with intelligence here...So they are all safe from my insults...Turkey already has a foot in Cyprus and unless we agree to a solution soon which will make Turkey remove her foot that foot will leave such a print that nothing will ever remove it ...You tell us,Tiberius (with a keyboard) how else are you going to remove that Turkish foot if not with a comprehensive agreement...And please no more stupid talk about foreign mercinaries or an all out war...Tell us how realistically are you going to remove Turkey from Cyprus??? I am all ears...Boomers can have a go as well...

[boomerang]

Bananiot is the ultimate realist,DT...He knows that to get the Turkish army out of Cyprus we need a comprehensive solution...To have a comprehensive solution you need to make compromises...If you do not,you will always have the Turkish army breathing down your and your children's necks,...

Turkey COULDN’T CARE LESS about “comprehensive solutions” unless that “comprehensive solution” includes Turkey having a foot in Cyprus (with the TCs blessing) in which case it defeats the very purpose of your stupid “solution”!

Now please quit insulting people’s intelligence in here with your foolhardy crap and kindly return to your fish & chip shop!

I don't see many people with intelligence here...So they are all safe from my insults...Turkey already has a foot in Cyprus and unless we agree to a solution soon which will make Turkey remove her foot that foot will leave such a print that nothing will ever remove it ...You tell us,Tiberius (with a keyboard) how else are you going to remove that Turkish foot if not with a comprehensive agreement...And please no more stupid talk about foreign mercinaries or an all out war...Tell us how realistically are you going to remove Turkey from Cyprus??? I am all ears...Boomers can have a go as well...

turkey ain't going anywhere bir, solution or no solution...the question here is do the gcs want to have turkey influence their lives aswell...

and to be honest the tcs are making it easy for the gcs to decide...

on the other hand the tcs as a community are disappearing...

i am not quite sure bir as you can't really see the obvious...it's staring you right in the eyes...

how the hell are you going to reduce turkeys influence when you guys are outnumbered, and when today she wants to have 70 million possible cypriot residents...