Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Morhou, Famagusta, buffer zone, 70 villages, make up the vast majority. Now, not a single refugee has returned. Really, its no match. Had Papadopoulos negotiated it, a large number would have returned to Karpas too! The guarantee treaties could have been worked out too. Turkey could have guaranteed the TC state and perhaps the EU the GC state, for a certain period, until all sick nationalists like yourself, bid us good bye.

Oh, so if I steal from you a million euro and as a result I am a fugitive suffering the consequences of my crime, you will accept if I give you 10 euro back and in return you let me keep legally and enjoy the remaining money?

10 is better than 0, so according to your "logic" that is exactly what you should do.

[BirKibrisli]

So, we now acknowledge that above morals and democracy come self interests. You should have no more concerns about the stance of the Angloamericans Piratis. They look after their interests and we should look after ours. Our debate now should concentrate on where our interests lie. With the EU or with Russia. Remember, picking the right partners is what true patriotism is all about. As far as the Georgian refugees are concerned, too bad ... or simply, bad luck! Anyone that talks about morals should as for now just shut it!

P.S. In my view, abstention is worse than voting against. The west, in this case, knows very well why we abstained and it does not need a forum member to spell it out to them. Flirting with Russia, on the other hand, has no positive bearing on our plight, rather it makes things worse for us, since we lose leverage with those that counts.

We are not the ones who violate the rights of anybody else. We are just not in the position to protect others, we are not a super-power.

Our world is jungle and we have to play the game. We have no other option.

Russia is a friendly country and we are not going to destroy our relationship with them so you and your friends will be left alone to get what you want from our island.

So you must understand now why the TCs reacted the way they did faced with your Enosis jungle...They too had no other option...They had to play the game...The game of survival!!!

It was not a game of survival, but a game of gaining as much as you could, even on our expense (as you admited in another post of yours)

You want to play the game with us? Fine. Game on. When in the end you will lose remember that you are the ones who declared the war on us on June 1958 and since then you never accepted to end this war in a way that will be satisfactory to us.

WRONG,Piratis...You started the war on the TCs in 1950 when you voted for Enosis with Greece...The game of SURVIVAL was on from that moment in history...
And you never stopped trying to get your way,not in 1960,not in 1963 and not in 1974...And you are still trying to have your own way with the TCs in 2010!!!! I wish you could see how much damage you are doing to Cyprus...Ask Bananiot,he will tell you...

Bananiot's racism and one-sidedness has unfortunately lost him all credibility with most GC's. He could have been useful once upon a time as a bridgebuilder but to go to the extents of exaggerating claims and making things up just to make his country look bad has pushed him way over the edge.
I see no differences with Bananiots and Denktash's positions now.

Then you are as short-sighted as the rest of them here,and that surprises me,DT...Because he tells you what you don't want to hear does not make him racist...You are willing to jump on an honest mistake to attack Bananiot's credibility...What is the difference between voting against the withdrawal of Russian troops and abstaining from the vote to allow the Georgian refugees back home...???What moral or ethical difference does it make...??? Try some empathy,DT..What would you think if Georgia abstained in a vote to allow the GC refugees to return to their homes in the North???

I didn't jump on this "honest" mistake Bir even though it was anything BUT honest. Bananiots preferences are those that make me and my community second class citizens on this island. I find that racist. I know his positions on the CYprob and I fully disagree with them and find them racist to the GC ethnic community.

On the other hand I have come to a full agreement on the Cyprob with many others over my time on this forum including Big Oz, Deniz, Kikapu and with you (last year). These positions that these individuals held however were nothing as one-sided as what Bananiot has been offering up.

As for Georgia, perhaps you mistook me for someone else but where did I say that I agreed with what the goverment did there? I think you will find I am one of the biggest critics of this govt and indeed of most GC politicians.

Now as far as empathy is concerned Bir, I'm surprised you have time to think about that considering that for the past 2 months you've been repeating the chant that the TC's have suffered 6 times more than the GC's. I can do that empathy as well. The TC's have no idea what real suffering is, hows that?

What do you want Bananiot to tell you,to make him acceptable in your eyes,DT?
That the TCs were never invited,that they were the oppressors for 400 plus years??? That they had no legitimate right to oppose Enosis with Greece???That they were only always interested in helping Turkey achieve Taksim,hence gain on your loss,because deep down they are nothing but thieves??? That in 1963 they had no fear for their lives,but just ran away into enclaves to advance the cause of Taksim???That between 1963 and 74 they had perfectly happly lives,waiting for Turkey to invade??? That the TCs had nothing to fear from the 74 coup and the man who was installed as President,a murdering EOKA thug called Sampson???That the TCs have no worries now we are in the EU,so they should tell Turkey to piss off and leave them alone???

Have you ever considered that Bananiot is telling you the realities of the situation...???The realities you find unpalatable?? But essential to realise IF we are ever going to solve Cyprob fairly, peacefully and permanently..??? Could he be the black sheep who can see more catastrophy for the GCs on the horizon unless you wake up to certain realities??? could he be the real True Cypriot,the one who loves his country passionately enough to criticise her and want her to learn from the past mistakes???

[BirKibrisli]

how dare you call me a sick nationalist im not even cypriot you ass.morphou and famagusta would have been returned?we went over the famagusta issue a while back and i believe you got your ass handed to you by i believe sotos.large parts of the city would have been kept under t/c admin.comcerning morphou all the good farm land to the west of the city would be kept as well under t/c admin.57 villages would be reuturend and for the karpas it was taken off the table after annan 2 so dont bother about t pap not negotiating.when would the guranteor treaties going to be worked out exactly ?after we voted yes you ass?

Okey boulio,you are not a sick Cypriot nationalist...You are a healthy Greek nationalist...is that better???

Bananiot is simply telling you the reality you do not want to face...600 Turkish soldiers with intervention right MUST be better than 40,000 Turkish soldiers who have already carried out the intervention...
88,000 returned GC refugees is better than NONE...I cannot believe you cannot see Bananiot's logic...You are making the same mistake you did in 1950,1960,1963 and 1974...You still believe you will have everything you want if you just wait long enough and try hard enough...Bananiot is telling you that won't happen and you stand to lose even more...And he is right..And history will prove him right...Pity we won't be around to witness it... Or perhaps just as well...It would be too heartbreaking...

[BirKibrisli]

So, we now acknowledge that above morals and democracy come self interests. You should have no more concerns about the stance of the Angloamericans Piratis. They look after their interests and we should look after ours. Our debate now should concentrate on where our interests lie. With the EU or with Russia. Remember, picking the right partners is what true patriotism is all about. As far as the Georgian refugees are concerned, too bad ... or simply, bad luck! Anyone that talks about morals should as for now just shut it!

P.S. In my view, abstention is worse than voting against. The west, in this case, knows very well why we abstained and it does not need a forum member to spell it out to them. Flirting with Russia, on the other hand, has no positive bearing on our plight, rather it makes things worse for us, since we lose leverage with those that counts.

We are not the ones who violate the rights of anybody else. We are just not in the position to protect others, we are not a super-power.

Our world is jungle and we have to play the game. We have no other option.

Russia is a friendly country and we are not going to destroy our relationship with them so you and your friends will be left alone to get what you want from our island.

So you must understand now why the TCs reacted the way they did faced with your Enosis jungle...They too had no other option...They had to play the game...The game of survival!!!

It was not a game of survival, but a game of gaining as much as you could, even on our expense (as you admited in another post of yours)

You want to play the game with us? Fine. Game on. When in the end you will lose remember that you are the ones who declared the war on us on June 1958 and since then you never accepted to end this war in a way that will be satisfactory to us.

WRONG,Piratis...You started the war on the TCs in 1950 when you voted for Enosis with Greece...The game of SURVIVAL was on from that moment in history...
And you never stopped trying to get your way,not in 1960,not in 1963 and not in 1974...And you are still trying to have your own way with the TCs in 2010!!!! I wish you could see how much damage you are doing to Cyprus...Ask Bananiot,he will tell you...

And since when voting for our island to unite with another entity is a "war"? Cyprus was part of the British and earlier Ottoman empires against the will of the vast majority of the Cypriot people. Why being part of a free Greek Republic which is what the vast majority of Cypriots themselves wanted, was "war" with you?

The fact is that you declared the war on GCs on June 1958 when you started burning homes and shops of innocent people and massacring others, for the sole reason that they were GCs. At about the same time you started to demand that we should be annihilate from half of our island.

That is when the war started and it hasn't ended since.

Fine,Piratis,believe what you want... Believe that the war started on June 1958 and it is still going on...What Bananiot is telling you,and what I agree with is this: Unless you stop your bloodyminded stubbornnes and agree to the best deal you can get now to end that WAR,there might be nothing left of the Republic of Cyprus by the time your WAR ends...

[BirKibrisli]

Morhou, Famagusta, buffer zone, 70 villages, make up the vast majority. Now, not a single refugee has returned. Really, its no match. Had Papadopoulos negotiated it, a large number would have returned to Karpas too! The guarantee treaties could have been worked out too. Turkey could have guaranteed the TC state and perhaps the EU the GC state, for a certain period, until all sick nationalists like yourself, bid us good bye.

Oh, so if I steal from you a million euro and as a result I am a fugitive suffering the consequences of my crime, you will accept if I give you 10 euro back and in return you let me keep legally and enjoy the remaining money?

10 is better than 0, so according to your "logic" that is exactly what you should do.

No,look at it this way...If you lose 1 million Euros doing shady deals with shady operators,take back the 400,000 euro on offer and cut your losses...

[boulio]

Okey boulio,you are not a sick Cypriot nationalist...You are a healthy Greek nationalist...is that better???

Bananiot is simply telling you the reality you do not want to face...600 Turkish soldiers with intervention right MUST be better than 40,000 Turkish soldiers who have already carried out the intervention...
88,000 returned GC refugees is better than NONE...I cannot believe you cannot see Bananiot's logic...You are making the same mistake you did in 1950,1960,1963 and 1974...You still believe you will have everything you want if you just wait long enough and try hard enough...Bananiot is telling you that won't happen and you stand to lose even more...And he is right..And history will prove him right...Pity we won't be around to witness it... Or perhaps just as well...It would be too heartbreaking...

i understand his logic and sometimes i may even agree to it.i just dont like him making false statements thats all.the vast majority of refugees returning is not the same as barely half.70 villages is not the same as 56.600 turkish troops only with a massive ommision that cyprus will be left undefended and turkey will have unilatteral intervention rights.ROC VOTING AGAINST georgian refugees when they absand.falacies and gross omisions.and yes i am a greek nationalist,i love my country as f@cked up as it can be sometimes.

[boulio]

You still believe you will have everything you want if you just wait long enough and try hard enough...Bananiot is telling you that won't happen and you stand to lose even more...And he is right..And history will prove him right...Pity we won't be around to witness it... Or perhaps just as well...It would be too heartbreaking

i dont want everything a want a workable and sustanable solution in cyprus that the cypriots both g/c and t/c agree to in the form of a solution wether it be a unitary,bbf or even partition state with the motherland removed.Greece has done this(past sins)is turkey ready to?

[DT.]

I didn't jump on this "honest" mistake Bir even though it was anything BUT honest. Bananiots preferences are those that make me and my community second class citizens on this island. I find that racist. I know his positions on the CYprob and I fully disagree with them and find them racist to the GC ethnic community.

On the other hand I have come to a full agreement on the Cyprob with many others over my time on this forum including Big Oz, Deniz, Kikapu and with you (last year). These positions that these individuals held however were nothing as one-sided as what Bananiot has been offering up.

As for Georgia, perhaps you mistook me for someone else but where did I say that I agreed with what the goverment did there? I think you will find I am one of the biggest critics of this govt and indeed of most GC politicians.

Now as far as empathy is concerned Bir, I'm surprised you have time to think about that considering that for the past 2 months you've been repeating the chant that the TC's have suffered 6 times more than the GC's. I can do that empathy as well. The TC's have no idea what real suffering is, hows that?

What do you want Bananiot to tell you,to make him acceptable in your eyes,DT?

That the TCs were never invited,that they were the oppressors for 400 plus years???

Listen Bir, you and Bananiot might have an easy task with some of the extremists around here but with me you need to use a little logic and facts. When did I ever mention 400 years? oppression?

That they had no legitimate right to oppose Enosis with Greece???That they were only always interested in helping Turkey achieve Taksim,hence gain on your loss,because deep down they are nothing but thieves???

Again, check your facts AND who you're speaking to. WHen did i describe TC's as nothing but thieves?

That in 1963 they had no fear for their lives,but just ran away into enclaves to advance the cause of Taksim???That between 1963 and 74 they had perfectly happly lives,waiting for Turkey to invade??? That the TCs had nothing to fear from the 74 coup and the man who was installed as President,a murdering EOKA thug called Sampson???

Once again, if you look back at my posts I had acknowledged the wrongs the fanatics and govt had committed early on.

That the TCs have no worries now we are in the EU,so they should tell Turkey to piss off and leave them alone???

Pretty much, yeah, but thats not the point here.

Have you ever considered that Bananiot is telling you the realities of the situation...???The realities you find unpalatable?? But essential to realise IF we are ever going to solve Cyprob fairly, peacefully and permanently..??? Could he be the black sheep who can see more catastrophy for the GCs on the horizon unless you wake up to certain realities??? could he be the real True Cypriot,the one who loves his country passionately enough to criticise her and want her to learn from the past mistakes???

Basically you've gone comletely down the wrong track. I hardly ever attack Bananiot for what he say's about the past. What I do attack him for is what he's willing to accept for the future. Bananiots an older generation now and his kids have grown up, I'm early 30's with 2 toddlers and have much more to lose than him right now.

WHat I always ever said unlike many here was that I'm happy with a BBF and I'm happy with protections for the TC's when it comes to laws and matters that affect them.

I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up with a Turkish shadow over them and a possible future intervention due to some paranoia issues the TC's still feel.
I will not however vote for a solution that has my kids growing up in a country where the Leader of the state holds his position due to his ethnic background not his ability.
I will not however vote for a solution where people that are alien to this land are considered with more humanity than people who belong in this land.

Theres much more Bir but I digress, I've come to realise that you're blindy defending Bananiot with easy slogans like the ones you threw at me above (slogans that have nothing to do with me or my issues with Bananiot) because you want to preserve someone like Bananiot. That in itself is an adirable attempt, however you need a new specimen. Bananiot is burnt NOT because of the definition of history he dishes out to this forum, but because of his eagerness and callous acceptance of everything the Turkish state is proposing for the Cypriots for the FUTURE.

As I said before however, that may work with some of the others but not me. Read what I say and respond to what I say, not what you THINK I'm saying or what you WISH I was saying.

[Piratis]

So, we now acknowledge that above morals and democracy come self interests. You should have no more concerns about the stance of the Angloamericans Piratis. They look after their interests and we should look after ours. Our debate now should concentrate on where our interests lie. With the EU or with Russia. Remember, picking the right partners is what true patriotism is all about. As far as the Georgian refugees are concerned, too bad ... or simply, bad luck! Anyone that talks about morals should as for now just shut it!

P.S. In my view, abstention is worse than voting against. The west, in this case, knows very well why we abstained and it does not need a forum member to spell it out to them. Flirting with Russia, on the other hand, has no positive bearing on our plight, rather it makes things worse for us, since we lose leverage with those that counts.

We are not the ones who violate the rights of anybody else. We are just not in the position to protect others, we are not a super-power.

Our world is jungle and we have to play the game. We have no other option.

Russia is a friendly country and we are not going to destroy our relationship with them so you and your friends will be left alone to get what you want from our island.

So you must understand now why the TCs reacted the way they did faced with your Enosis jungle...They too had no other option...They had to play the game...The game of survival!!!

It was not a game of survival, but a game of gaining as much as you could, even on our expense (as you admited in another post of yours)

You want to play the game with us? Fine. Game on. When in the end you will lose remember that you are the ones who declared the war on us on June 1958 and since then you never accepted to end this war in a way that will be satisfactory to us.

WRONG,Piratis...You started the war on the TCs in 1950 when you voted for Enosis with Greece...The game of SURVIVAL was on from that moment in history...
And you never stopped trying to get your way,not in 1960,not in 1963 and not in 1974...And you are still trying to have your own way with the TCs in 2010!!!! I wish you could see how much damage you are doing to Cyprus...Ask Bananiot,he will tell you...

And since when voting for our island to unite with another entity is a "war"? Cyprus was part of the British and earlier Ottoman empires against the will of the vast majority of the Cypriot people. Why being part of a free Greek Republic which is what the vast majority of Cypriots themselves wanted, was "war" with you?

The fact is that you declared the war on GCs on June 1958 when you started burning homes and shops of innocent people and massacring others, for the sole reason that they were GCs. At about the same time you started to demand that we should be annihilate from half of our island.

That is when the war started and it hasn't ended since.

Fine,Piratis,believe what you want... Believe that the war started on June 1958 and it is still going on...What Bananiot is telling you,and what I agree with is this: Unless you stop your bloodyminded stubbornnes and agree to the best deal you can get now to end that WAR,there might be nothing left of the Republic of Cyprus by the time your WAR ends...

There would be nothing left of the Republic of Cyprus if we accepted your terms. Just a fact you choose to ignore.

[Piratis]

Morhou, Famagusta, buffer zone, 70 villages, make up the vast majority. Now, not a single refugee has returned. Really, its no match. Had Papadopoulos negotiated it, a large number would have returned to Karpas too! The guarantee treaties could have been worked out too. Turkey could have guaranteed the TC state and perhaps the EU the GC state, for a certain period, until all sick nationalists like yourself, bid us good bye.

Oh, so if I steal from you a million euro and as a result I am a fugitive suffering the consequences of my crime, you will accept if I give you 10 euro back and in return you let me keep legally and enjoy the remaining money?

10 is better than 0, so according to your "logic" that is exactly what you should do.

No,look at it this way...If you lose 1 million Euros doing shady deals with shady operators,take back the 400,000 euro on offer and cut your losses...

Do you really think that we are the ones who own to you after all you have done and continue doing against us and against our island? A classic example of the the pot calling the kettle black!