Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

The answer to this question is very simple...BECAUSE THIS PARTICULAR SOVEREIGN REPUBLIC HAS ACHIEVED THAT STATUS BY UNDEMOCRATIC MEANS,TEARING UP INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS,AND SPITTING ON THE DEMCORATIC AND HUMAN RIGHTS OF THEIR LEGITIMATE PARTNERS... The Powers-that-be in UN know this very well,they let you get away with it for their own interests...

Back to the keyboard,Tiberius...

It was the uneducated TCs who spat the dummy by abandoning the govt, declaring it null & void, and rushing to arm themselves so think again...

Yeah...yeah...yeah...keep repeating enough time and you will believe it yourself one day...But nobody else will...Dr Kuchuk was a medical doctor,Denktash and Orek were lawyers, British educated...Some uneducated TCs you were dealing with there...Pulll the other leg,Tiberius!
Back to planning your little war with Turkey...

[Get Real!]

Back to planning your little war with Turkey...

I'd rather post this...

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:50 am

I know the official history of the EOKA and the TMT,bigOZ...
I will let others (preferably GCs talk about the rights and wrongs of EOKA)
but let me tell you a few things about TMT...The movement which produced TMT started much earlier,after the 2nd world war...It was a political movement called Volkan,and it s aims were to safeguard TC interests in case of a British withdrawal.My father was one of the founders of Volkan...when it was decided that an underground fighting force was necessary to combat any possible aggression from GCs TMT was founded...My father was a regional commmader in the Paphos area (he was also a teacher) and I remember our house in Yalya turned into an arms depot,with us kids as the guardians and protectors of the loot...Many a night I lay in bed snuggling up to handguns,stenguns,and granades,while British soldiers serched our house...Being British they never thought to look under the doona of a sleeping child or a sick (!) woman...and they never found the arms...while TMT was under the control of Dr Kuchuk and A>M>Berberoglu (my father's side) it functioned pretty much as was intended...But when Turkey decided that they needed "real action men" to run TMT Rauf Denktash and Burhan Nalbantoglu took over...Turkey threatened to kill Kuchuk and his supporters if they resisted,so they didn't...soon TMT was acting like a terrorist organisation in guise as a selfdefence organisation,putting fear into their own people,and killing and bombing strategic targets to achieve their ultimate aim,Partition...This is when my father,who was an honorable man,fell out with Denktash and Co and he was on their hitlist for a while...In fact Father was on the hitlist of EOKA as well,as they rightly suspected that he was the area commander in Paphos...But when the hitman finally arrived he was from the TMT,but by divine intervention,he turned out to be one of my father's former students...So instead of killing him he warned him of the danger,and I remember a time when we were on the move all the time to avoid a second hitman...
So dear, bigOz,I owe my exile to Australia to the TMT more than the EOKA...
This does not mean that TMT did nothing good for the TCs...or that all members were murderous thugs...But the leaders were,and they were kept in check somehow by the Turkish colonel in charge of TMT during the early 60s (Kemal Coskun code named Bayraktar,who was withdrawn to Turkey after the 67 events)...sorry to disappoint you,bigOz,but after more than 50 years of keeping silent about these things,I have earned the right to talk...It is upto you to believe me or not...But ask yourself,what motivation would I have to make all this up???All this information is in the public arena these days anyway...Read Arif Hasan Tahsin Hoca's column in Afrika and you will learn the truth about the TMT...warts and all...I want to stress the point that most underground organisations like TMT eventually end up serving the interests of those who control them,and not the general community interests...TMT was conrolled by Denktash locally and Turkey overseas,so it ended up serving their interests...In the process many good,honorable people who wanted to serve the interest of the TC people or the interests of all Cypriots were killed or sent into exile...I know you mean well,bigOz,and sorry once again if I woke you up from the dream imposed by Denktash and Co's propaganda machine...

[BirKibrisli]

Whatever you might think of Turkey's actions as a guarantor,there is no clause in the agreement which says that right would be extinguished IF one side is not happy with the guarantor's actions...So the right exists until it is removed by international agreements,and cannot be done unilaterally...

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle17.htm

Wishful thinking,GR!
Show me a "credible" link from the UN where it says the guarantor's right of Turkey has been extinguished...Go on...I dare you...The link above is a path to a biased and deluded individual's site...No sensible person would take it seriously...

[BirKibrisli]

Back to planning your little war with Turkey...

I'd rather post this...

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:50 am

I know the official history of the EOKA and the TMT,bigOZ...
I will let others (preferably GCs talk about the rights and wrongs of EOKA)
but let me tell you a few things about TMT...The movement which produced TMT started much earlier,after the 2nd world war...It was a political movement called Volkan,and it s aims were to safeguard TC interests in case of a British withdrawal.My father was one of the founders of Volkan...when it was decided that an underground fighting force was necessary to combat any possible aggression from GCs TMT was founded...My father was a regional commmader in the Paphos area (he was also a teacher) and I remember our house in Yalya turned into an arms depot,with us kids as the guardians and protectors of the loot...Many a night I lay in bed snuggling up to handguns,stenguns,and granades,while British soldiers serched our house...Being British they never thought to look under the doona of a sleeping child or a sick (!) woman...and they never found the arms...while TMT was under the control of Dr Kuchuk and A>M>Berberoglu (my father's side) it functioned pretty much as was intended...But when Turkey decided that they needed "real action men" to run TMT Rauf Denktash and Burhan Nalbantoglu took over...Turkey threatened to kill Kuchuk and his supporters if they resisted,so they didn't...soon TMT was acting like a terrorist organisation in guise as a selfdefence organisation,putting fear into their own people,and killing and bombing strategic targets to achieve their ultimate aim,Partition...This is when my father,who was an honorable man,fell out with Denktash and Co and he was on their hitlist for a while...In fact Father was on the hitlist of EOKA as well,as they rightly suspected that he was the area commander in Paphos...But when the hitman finally arrived he was from the TMT,but by divine intervention,he turned out to be one of my father's former students...So instead of killing him he warned him of the danger,and I remember a time when we were on the move all the time to avoid a second hitman...
So dear, bigOz,I owe my exile to Australia to the TMT more than the EOKA...
This does not mean that TMT did nothing good for the TCs...or that all members were murderous thugs...But the leaders were,and they were kept in check somehow by the Turkish colonel in charge of TMT during the early 60s (Kemal Coskun code named Bayraktar,who was withdrawn to Turkey after the 67 events)...sorry to disappoint you,bigOz,but after more than 50 years of keeping silent about these things,I have earned the right to talk...It is upto you to believe me or not...But ask yourself,what motivation would I have to make all this up???All this information is in the public arena these days anyway...Read Arif Hasan Tahsin Hoca's column in Afrika and you will learn the truth about the TMT...warts and all...I want to stress the point that most underground organisations like TMT eventually end up serving the interests of those who control them,and not the general community interests...TMT was conrolled by Denktash locally and Turkey overseas,so it ended up serving their interests...In the process many good,honorable people who wanted to serve the interest of the TC people or the interests of all Cypriots were killed or sent into exile...I know you mean well,bigOz,and sorry once again if I woke you up from the dream imposed by Denktash and Co's propaganda machine...

Are you drinking again,GR!???
What has this got to do with your little war with Turkey...???
TMT like the EOKA has long been thrown into the dustbin of history...But you are planning to make history yourself as we speak...forget about the above and concentrate on the problem at hand,Tiberius...You will need all your cunning powers to convince anyone to follow you down to the path of self-destruction,once again...

[Get Real!]

Whatever you might think of Turkey's actions as a guarantor,there is no clause in the agreement which says that right would be extinguished IF one side is not happy with the guarantor's actions...So the right exists until it is removed by international agreements,and cannot be done unilaterally...

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle17.htm

Wishful thinking,GR!
Show me a "credible" link from the UN where it says the guarantor's right of Turkey has been extinguished...Go on...I dare you...The link above is a path to a biased and deluded individual's site...No sensible person would take it seriously...

Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instru ... 1_1969.pdf

[Malapapa]

i just laugh. pls all of u,try to understand what we said BBF with one savournity and single citizanship and also quarantees of Turkey .

Which superpower does Turkey despise and fear the most, halil? Russia? China? America?

Because when Turkey accepts quarantees by this superpower for its Kurdish minority, Cyprus will accept the same quarantees for you.

We are only talking for our names not what other says or wants .Also we are the one side of it . can decide or ask not Cyprus. There is a 2 sides in Cyprus .TC's and GC's . It does not bother us what the others are after. It all their internal problem .My problem and others problems are not same as Cyprus problem .We are trying to build up bits which they were broken since 1964 which we were equal partner of the Cyprus.

My point is, halil, Turkey would never, ever accept such a ridiculous, imposition for Kurds. Yet, through its agents on the island (you), it expects such a ridiculous, unacceptable imposition on Cyprus for you. Forget it.

No solution for Cyprus is better than Turkey's continued guarantees on Cyprus.

Do you understand this?

Understand this also. Turkey and all the other outlaws in the north will be taken to the cleaners in the international courts. That's something that can be guaranteed.

You are forgetting one key point,Malapapa...
There is already an international agreement,still in operation,which makes Turkey a guarantor...

Turkey and her agents on the island may think it's still in operation but all that's in operation are illegalities by outlaws. Don't take my word for it but the judgements of a range of international courts as well as UN resolutions.

The TCs are not asking for anything new or out of the blue...If you want the TCs to give up what they already have you have to come up with some pretty strong arguments and alternatives...making silly analogies like the Kurds and the Chinese will not do it...

No arguments or alternatives are on offer; and the Kurd analogy was made simply to highlight how silly the insistence of Turkey's guarantee in Cyprus is, especially after all the diabolical crimes this country has commited and continues to commit on Cypriot soil.

Turkey's guarantees aren't part of a solution, but of an abortion.

Now stop wasting my time; there are outlaws to bring to justice.

[BirKibrisli]

Whatever you might think of Turkey's actions as a guarantor,there is no clause in the agreement which says that right would be extinguished IF one side is not happy with the guarantor's actions...So the right exists until it is removed by international agreements,and cannot be done unilaterally...

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle17.htm

Wishful thinking,GR!
Show me a "credible" link from the UN where it says the guarantor's right of Turkey has been extinguished...Go on...I dare you...The link above is a path to a biased and deluded individual's site...No sensible person would take it seriously...

Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instru ... 1_1969.pdf

But where does it say that Turkey's guarantor powers have been extinguished??? Only in your head I am afraid...
And while you are at it,find me a credible link which says the TCs rights in the RoC have been withdrawn due to their absence...

[BirKibrisli]

i just laugh. pls all of u,try to understand what we said BBF with one savournity and single citizanship and also quarantees of Turkey .

Which superpower does Turkey despise and fear the most, halil? Russia? China? America?

Because when Turkey accepts quarantees by this superpower for its Kurdish minority, Cyprus will accept the same quarantees for you.

We are only talking for our names not what other says or wants .Also we are the one side of it . can decide or ask not Cyprus. There is a 2 sides in Cyprus .TC's and GC's . It does not bother us what the others are after. It all their internal problem .My problem and others problems are not same as Cyprus problem .We are trying to build up bits which they were broken since 1964 which we were equal partner of the Cyprus.

My point is, halil, Turkey would never, ever accept such a ridiculous, imposition for Kurds. Yet, through its agents on the island (you), it expects such a ridiculous, unacceptable imposition on Cyprus for you. Forget it.

No solution for Cyprus is better than Turkey's continued guarantees on Cyprus.

Do you understand this?

Understand this also. Turkey and all the other outlaws in the north will be taken to the cleaners in the international courts. That's something that can be guaranteed.

You are forgetting one key point,Malapapa...
There is already an international agreement,still in operation,which makes Turkey a guarantor...

Turkey and her agents on the island may think it's still in operation but all that's in operation are illegalities by outlaws. Don't take my word for it but the judgements of a range of international courts as well as UN resolutions.

The TCs are not asking for anything new or out of the blue...If you want the TCs to give up what they already have you have to come up with some pretty strong arguments and alternatives...making silly analogies like the Kurds and the Chinese will not do it...

No arguments or alternatives are on offer; and the Kurd analogy was made simply to highlight how silly the insistence of Turkey's guarantee in Cyprus is, especially after all the diabolical crimes this country has commited and continues to commit on Cypriot soil.

Turkey's guarantees aren't part of a solution, but of an abortion.

Now stop wasting my time; there are outlaws to bring to justice.

If the reality was only how we would like it <MP...Life would be much easier...Do you really believe you can solve Cyprus problem via the courts??? Go for your life...Another Ostrich bites the dust!!!

[fwnh]

:) mate.... back to reality....hahaha

Cyprus National Guard military action?! get real... have you not been to the army yet!?!?

cyprus DEMANDING anything from the internasional scene? get real

Then you have no option but to negotiate the Turkification of Cyprus and as I said to Kifeas, make sure the process lasts long enough for your pitiful generation to disappear before your grandchildren and great-grandchildren have to change religion or abandon Cyprus altogether.

and again you are munching the same things you said before when you run out of arguments... you are really downranking the conversation... i will not repost the same answer again....but if you care so much about religion in cyprus of 2010 where nobody gives a shit anymore and the papaes (tsouroi) have even stoped pretending that they care than anything else except their hotels in pafos and their land by the sea then you must be a modern saint... but i would put my money on the fact that it's just something you like to point out all the time because its what makes us different... how about the things that make us the same?

A BBF/BBC is a negotiation towards the Turkification of Cyprus but one needs to be able to foresee how it will head there…

It’s like Chess; a game where the ability to foresee potential moves and counter moves of the opponent, pretty much determines the outcome, but fools like you and Miltiades probably don’t even know what a chess board looks like let alone contemplate political strategies!

fools like me and miltiades are free men that can look around them in 360 degrees, where u my son was taught to look only one way and u submitted to that

[Get Real!]

:) mate.... back to reality....hahaha

Cyprus National Guard military action?! get real... have you not been to the army yet!?!?

cyprus DEMANDING anything from the internasional scene? get real

Then you have no option but to negotiate the Turkification of Cyprus and as I said to Kifeas, make sure the process lasts long enough for your pitiful generation to disappear before your grandchildren and great-grandchildren have to change religion or abandon Cyprus altogether.

and again you are munching the same things you said before when you run out of arguments... you are really downranking the conversation... i will not repost the same answer again....but if you care so much about religion in cyprus of 2010 where nobody gives a shit anymore and the papaes (tsouroi) have even stoped pretending that they care than anything else except their hotels in pafos and their land by the sea then you must be a modern saint... but i would put my money on the fact that it's just something you like to point out all the time because its what makes us different... how about the things that make us the same?

A BBF/BBC is a negotiation towards the Turkification of Cyprus but one needs to be able to foresee how it will head there…

It’s like Chess; a game where the ability to foresee potential moves and counter moves of the opponent, pretty much determines the outcome, but fools like you and Miltiades probably don’t even know what a chess board looks like let alone contemplate political strategies!

fools like me and miltiades are free men that can look around them in 360 degrees, where u my son was taught to look only one way and u submitted to that

You’re just a couple of time wasting uneducated goofballs with nothing interesting to offer the CyProb readers.

Now take the peanut and go sit down --> 0