Cyprus-Forum.com

[Gasman]

A policy of Apartheid can only be implemented within a State of some legitimacy. In Cyprus there is only one State. That State is the RoC! The "trnc" is a non entity. It is not legitimate. It is a territory belonging to the RoC which is currently under occupation and was previously ethnically cleansed.

If you want to debate with some integrity then you can only use International Law as your tools and Apartheid does not cut it as an appropriate term to describe Turkey's War Crimes in Cyprus. Ethnic Cleansing is the term to describe the displacement of 160,000 Cypriots by the occupying power. These people are still Displaced to this very day. These people are still the victims of ethnic cleansing and not Apartheid.

I strongly agree with that view. To my mind any 'apartheid' system would have to be implemented and carried out by the LEGITIMATE government of the country it was operating in.

[Oracle]

No, I do not have ANY shame for my country nor the decisions Makarios EVER made!

What you should have shame for Oracle is your own actions, where you claim what is patently not true is true all the while accusing others of the exact manipulations that you so ineptly attempt yourself. You should be ashamed that that whilst you accuse others of presenting their own views as fact, you yourself do this constanly. You should be ashamed that whilst you demand others provide credible indpendant evidence and then dismiss it out of hand when they do, you present as 'proof' something that is clearly no such thing. All of this should make you ashamed Oracle but do not fret for I know as surely as you do that you will feel no shame in such behaviour.

Perhaps you can demonstrate where you differ from any of the accusations you have levied upon me. From what I've seen, you're one of the few TCs who can dive down deeper into the sea of Turkish propaganda, yet still come up looking drier.

However, it's usually a sign that the argument has been won, the point made, the conclusion long drawn, when the one such as you resorts to personal and unfounded accusations to save some face.

What is more, I am also not ashamed of my people, who are progressive and not stuck in some time-warp such as the Turk-TCs clearly are ... My people, who even in 1968 massively (96%) endorsed an Independent Cyprus by backing Makarios against the pro-Enosis Evdokas.

But bizzarely the very same people whose deomcraticaly elected leaders in June 1967 Unanimously passed a resolution in the house of representatives that said

Interpreting the age-long aspirations of the Greeks of Cyprus, the House declares that despite any adverse circumstances it will not suspend the struggle conducted with the support of all Greeks, until this struggle succeeds in uniting the whole and undivided Cyprus with the Motherland, without any intermediary stages

Is this fact also to be dismissed out of hand as 'extracts of OTHER people's opinions of what was said and not said' and deemed by you the self appointed arbiter of truth as meaning nothing and indicative of nothing, just as you dismiss the report of the UN mediator to Cyprus in 64 even when it directly reports what Makrios and other aknowledged to him personaly because what YOU say Makrios stood for can be the only truth.

Was this related to the 'bizarre' behaviour of the TCs in 1967 to undemocratically declare their own administration and fire pot-shots at GCs trying to reach their own villages?

How convenient, when it suits you, to forget that the TCs were holding the whole country to ransom, Turkey threatening and attempting invasion for years, leaving the GCs seeking assurances from any friendly source like the UN, Russia, or even Greece, before that became unfeasible.

And how 'bizarre' that when the elections proved that by 1968, 95% of the electorate had endorsed Independence, you still harp back, with partial extracts, to some previous event which proves what? Does what you post from 1967 nullify what I posted from 1968? Or, is it that you are gong to claim the polls were rigged and I am lying as to the outcome?

I am of the opinion Oracle that there can be few people left that do not see your comittment to 'truth' for what it really is. In many ways I should thank you for showing this so plainly and clearly, for if you were not so blatant in your determination to distort historical reality and apply nothing but double standards you might actualy be, in your own small way, dangerous.

But most 'bizarrely' you ignore the one indicator of the most shameful behaviour around, of what your people are capable of, which needs no quotes from articles or arguments about what is true and what is not!

....... Because 'bizarrely' it is staring us all in the face 24/7, ever since 1974!

[erolz3]

Perhaps you can demonstrate where you differ from any of the accusations you have levied upon me.

To do so would be as easy at it would be pointless. If you want to push this then do and I will if you demand lay out the evidence of each of my observations I made about your own behaviour here that you do these things and evidence that I do not. Like I say pointless, as its all already there in black and white.

From what I've seen, you're one of the few TCs who can dive down deeper into the sea of Turkish propaganda, yet still come up looking drier.

You mean 'propaganda' like direct quotes from UN documents and resolutions passed in the house of representatives. Are these all plucked from the 'sea of Turkish propaganda' ?

However, it's usually a sign that the argument has been won, the point made, the conclusion long drawn, when the one such as you resorts to personal and unfounded accusations to save some face.

I have made observations about your behaviour that compare the things you claim others do with what you yourself do. They are not unfounded and the evidence that supports the observations is there for all to see. Your consistent use of double standards is in fact only highlighted by your very words above. Whilst you accuse me of resorting to personal unfounded accusations this is of course something you yourself do not do.

Was this related to the 'bizarre' behaviour of the TCs in 1967 to undemocratically declare their own administration and fire pot-shots at GCs trying to reach their own villages?

So your argument here is when the GC house of representatives unanimoulsy passed a resolution declaring we will not end our struggle for enosis this does not show or mean that there was any support for enosis but should in fact be correctly interpreted as showing and meaning 'we condem the recent actions of the TC community to declare a sperate adminstration and continued use of violence'. Is that your 'argument' ?

And how 'bizarre' that when the elections proved that by 1968, 95% of the electorate had endorsed Independence, you still harp back, with partial extracts, to some previous event which proves what? Does what you post from 1967 nullify what I posted from 1968? Or, is it that you are gong to claim the polls were rigged and I am lying as to the outcome?

I do not dispute the election results. What I dispute Oracle is your assertion that because GC voted overwhealmingly for Makarios , the indivdual who probably more than any other symbolised and represented the struggle for enosis in Cyprus, and not an other candidate that support enosis, this is irrefutable proof that Makrios himself and the GC community in general supported indepednace and only independance over enosis. I dispute this claim of yours because it is nonsense.

[DT.]

Perhaps you can demonstrate where you differ from any of the accusations you have levied upon me.

To do so would be as easy at it would be pointless. If you want to push this then do and I will if you demand lay out the evidence of each of my observations I made about your own behaviour here that you do these things and evidence that I do not. Like I say pointless, as its all already there in black and white.

From what I've seen, you're one of the few TCs who can dive down deeper into the sea of Turkish propaganda, yet still come up looking drier.

You mean 'propaganda' like direct quotes from UN documents and resolutions passed in the house of representatives. Are these all plucked from the 'sea of Turkish propaganda' ?

However, it's usually a sign that the argument has been won, the point made, the conclusion long drawn, when the one such as you resorts to personal and unfounded accusations to save some face.

I have made observations about your behaviour that compare the things you claim others do with what you yourself do. They are not unfounded and the evidence that supports the observations is there for all to see. Your consistent use of double standards is in fact only highlighted by your very words above. Whilst you accuse me of resorting to personal unfounded accusations this is of course something you yourself do not do.

Was this related to the 'bizarre' behaviour of the TCs in 1967 to undemocratically declare their own administration and fire pot-shots at GCs trying to reach their own villages?

So your argument here is when the GC house of representatives unanimoulsy passed a resolution declaring we will not end our struggle for enosis this does not show or mean that there was any support for enosis but should in fact be correctly interpreted as showing and meaning 'we condem the recent actions of the TC community to declare a sperate adminstration and continued use of violence'. Is that your 'argument' ?

And how 'bizarre' that when the elections proved that by 1968, 95% of the electorate had endorsed Independence, you still harp back, with partial extracts, to some previous event which proves what? Does what you post from 1967 nullify what I posted from 1968? Or, is it that you are gong to claim the polls were rigged and I am lying as to the outcome?

I do not dispute the election results. What I dispute Oracle is your assertion that because GC voted overwhealmingly for Makarios , the indivdual who probably more than any other symbolised and represented the struggle for enosis in Cyprus, and not an other candidate that support enosis, this is irrefutable proof that Makrios himself and the GC community in general supported indepednace and only independance over enosis. I dispute this claim of yours because it is nonsense.

Erolz, which part of Makarios claiming enosis is not feasible do you not accept?

[YFred]

Perhaps you can demonstrate where you differ from any of the accusations you have levied upon me.

To do so would be as easy at it would be pointless. If you want to push this then do and I will if you demand lay out the evidence of each of my observations I made about your own behaviour here that you do these things and evidence that I do not. Like I say pointless, as its all already there in black and white.

From what I've seen, you're one of the few TCs who can dive down deeper into the sea of Turkish propaganda, yet still come up looking drier.

You mean 'propaganda' like direct quotes from UN documents and resolutions passed in the house of representatives. Are these all plucked from the 'sea of Turkish propaganda' ?

However, it's usually a sign that the argument has been won, the point made, the conclusion long drawn, when the one such as you resorts to personal and unfounded accusations to save some face.

I have made observations about your behaviour that compare the things you claim others do with what you yourself do. They are not unfounded and the evidence that supports the observations is there for all to see. Your consistent use of double standards is in fact only highlighted by your very words above. Whilst you accuse me of resorting to personal unfounded accusations this is of course something you yourself do not do.

Was this related to the 'bizarre' behaviour of the TCs in 1967 to undemocratically declare their own administration and fire pot-shots at GCs trying to reach their own villages?

So your argument here is when the GC house of representatives unanimoulsy passed a resolution declaring we will not end our struggle for enosis this does not show or mean that there was any support for enosis but should in fact be correctly interpreted as showing and meaning 'we condem the recent actions of the TC community to declare a sperate adminstration and continued use of violence'. Is that your 'argument' ?

And how 'bizarre' that when the elections proved that by 1968, 95% of the electorate had endorsed Independence, you still harp back, with partial extracts, to some previous event which proves what? Does what you post from 1967 nullify what I posted from 1968? Or, is it that you are gong to claim the polls were rigged and I am lying as to the outcome?

I do not dispute the election results. What I dispute Oracle is your assertion that because GC voted overwhealmingly for Makarios , the indivdual who probably more than any other symbolised and represented the struggle for enosis in Cyprus, and not an other candidate that support enosis, this is irrefutable proof that Makrios himself and the GC community in general supported indepednace and only independance over enosis. I dispute this claim of yours because it is nonsense.

Erolz, which part of Makarios claiming enosis is not feasible do you not accept?

Reh DeTarui, you've been caught with your hands in the till, just say sorry and lets move on FFS.

[DT.]

Perhaps you can demonstrate where you differ from any of the accusations you have levied upon me.

To do so would be as easy at it would be pointless. If you want to push this then do and I will if you demand lay out the evidence of each of my observations I made about your own behaviour here that you do these things and evidence that I do not. Like I say pointless, as its all already there in black and white.

From what I've seen, you're one of the few TCs who can dive down deeper into the sea of Turkish propaganda, yet still come up looking drier.

You mean 'propaganda' like direct quotes from UN documents and resolutions passed in the house of representatives. Are these all plucked from the 'sea of Turkish propaganda' ?

However, it's usually a sign that the argument has been won, the point made, the conclusion long drawn, when the one such as you resorts to personal and unfounded accusations to save some face.

I have made observations about your behaviour that compare the things you claim others do with what you yourself do. They are not unfounded and the evidence that supports the observations is there for all to see. Your consistent use of double standards is in fact only highlighted by your very words above. Whilst you accuse me of resorting to personal unfounded accusations this is of course something you yourself do not do.

Was this related to the 'bizarre' behaviour of the TCs in 1967 to undemocratically declare their own administration and fire pot-shots at GCs trying to reach their own villages?

So your argument here is when the GC house of representatives unanimoulsy passed a resolution declaring we will not end our struggle for enosis this does not show or mean that there was any support for enosis but should in fact be correctly interpreted as showing and meaning 'we condem the recent actions of the TC community to declare a sperate adminstration and continued use of violence'. Is that your 'argument' ?

And how 'bizarre' that when the elections proved that by 1968, 95% of the electorate had endorsed Independence, you still harp back, with partial extracts, to some previous event which proves what? Does what you post from 1967 nullify what I posted from 1968? Or, is it that you are gong to claim the polls were rigged and I am lying as to the outcome?

I do not dispute the election results. What I dispute Oracle is your assertion that because GC voted overwhealmingly for Makarios , the indivdual who probably more than any other symbolised and represented the struggle for enosis in Cyprus, and not an other candidate that support enosis, this is irrefutable proof that Makrios himself and the GC community in general supported indepednace and only independance over enosis. I dispute this claim of yours because it is nonsense.

Erolz, which part of Makarios claiming enosis is not feasible do you not accept?

Reh DeTarui, you've been caught with your hands in the till, just say sorry and lets move on FFS.

Re killintjire, re aloutee, re koulloufe ths louroudjinas...evromises tous topous!

Plus as usual no one has a clue of what you're talking about. What are you talking about?

[Oracle]

I do not dispute the election results. What I dispute Oracle is your assertion that because GC voted overwhealmingly for Makarios , the indivdual who probably more than any other symbolised and represented the struggle for enosis in Cyprus, and not an other candidate that support enosis, this is irrefutable proof that Makrios himself and the GC community in general supported indepednace and only independance over enosis. I dispute this claim of yours because it is nonsense.

You deny disputing the election results; but prefer to deny that Makarios stood for Independence, and even attribute this connection to Independence only to me! So, all that you are not disputing is that the polls were not rigged!

In which case, you are accusing Makarios of being a liar. That when he said Enosis was not feasible, he was lying! Just as you accused him of lying, or me foolishly accepting that when he asked for extra assurances from the SC to guarantee Cyprus' Independence, in 1964, that it was Enosis he was secretly asking for.

What's more, you imply that only the handful of GCs who voted for Evdokas' pro-Enosis formula, were the truthful ones and that the 95% who voted for Makarios were either stupid and made a mistake; or, that they did not themselves believe Makarios when he categorically refuted Enosis for Cyprus.

So, what should the GCs have done to prove to TCs that Enosis was dead?

In fact, even to this day, what should the GCs do to prove to (the greatest sceptics on earth) the TCs, that Enosis is dead?

[DT.]

I do not dispute the election results. What I dispute Oracle is your assertion that because GC voted overwhealmingly for Makarios , the indivdual who probably more than any other symbolised and represented the struggle for enosis in Cyprus, and not an other candidate that support enosis, this is irrefutable proof that Makrios himself and the GC community in general supported indepednace and only independance over enosis. I dispute this claim of yours because it is nonsense.

You deny disputing the election results; but prefer to deny that Makarios stood for Independence, and even attribute this connection to Independence only to me! So, all that you are not disputing is that the polls were not rigged!

In which case, you are accusing Makarios of being a liar. That when he said Enosis was not feasible, he was lying! Just as you accused him of lying, or me foolishly accepting that when he asked for extra assurances from the SC to guarantee Cyprus' Independence, in 1964, that it was Enosis he was secretly asking for.

What's more, you imply that only the handful of GCs who voted for Evdokas' pro-Enosis formula, were the truthful ones and that the 95% who voted for Makarios were either stupid and made a mistake; or, that they did not themselves believe Makarios when he categorically refuted Enosis for Cyprus.

So, what should the GCs have done to prove to TCs that Enosis was dead?

In fact, even to this day, what should the GCs do to prove to (the greatest sceptics on earth) the TCs, that Enosis is dead?

While we all live taksim

[YFred]

Perhaps you can demonstrate where you differ from any of the accusations you have levied upon me.

To do so would be as easy at it would be pointless. If you want to push this then do and I will if you demand lay out the evidence of each of my observations I made about your own behaviour here that you do these things and evidence that I do not. Like I say pointless, as its all already there in black and white.

From what I've seen, you're one of the few TCs who can dive down deeper into the sea of Turkish propaganda, yet still come up looking drier.

You mean 'propaganda' like direct quotes from UN documents and resolutions passed in the house of representatives. Are these all plucked from the 'sea of Turkish propaganda' ?

However, it's usually a sign that the argument has been won, the point made, the conclusion long drawn, when the one such as you resorts to personal and unfounded accusations to save some face.

I have made observations about your behaviour that compare the things you claim others do with what you yourself do. They are not unfounded and the evidence that supports the observations is there for all to see. Your consistent use of double standards is in fact only highlighted by your very words above. Whilst you accuse me of resorting to personal unfounded accusations this is of course something you yourself do not do.

Was this related to the 'bizarre' behaviour of the TCs in 1967 to undemocratically declare their own administration and fire pot-shots at GCs trying to reach their own villages?

So your argument here is when the GC house of representatives unanimoulsy passed a resolution declaring we will not end our struggle for enosis this does not show or mean that there was any support for enosis but should in fact be correctly interpreted as showing and meaning 'we condem the recent actions of the TC community to declare a sperate adminstration and continued use of violence'. Is that your 'argument' ?

And how 'bizarre' that when the elections proved that by 1968, 95% of the electorate had endorsed Independence, you still harp back, with partial extracts, to some previous event which proves what? Does what you post from 1967 nullify what I posted from 1968? Or, is it that you are gong to claim the polls were rigged and I am lying as to the outcome?

I do not dispute the election results. What I dispute Oracle is your assertion that because GC voted overwhealmingly for Makarios , the indivdual who probably more than any other symbolised and represented the struggle for enosis in Cyprus, and not an other candidate that support enosis, this is irrefutable proof that Makrios himself and the GC community in general supported indepednace and only independance over enosis. I dispute this claim of yours because it is nonsense.

Erolz, which part of Makarios claiming enosis is not feasible do you not accept?

Reh DeTarui, you've been caught with your hands in the till, just say sorry and lets move on FFS.

Re killintjire, re aloutee, re koulloufe ths louroudjinas...evromises tous topous!

Plus as usual no one has a clue of what you're talking about. What are you talking about?

Thats' another unfounded accusation. I never fart outside.