Cyprus-Forum.com

[74LB]

Thank you Deniz.

Piratis, for you .....

[DTA]

The political objective of EOKA did not involve any kind of human rights violations.

On the contrary the political objective of TMT, partition, went against basic human rights, namely "Article 9: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile." and "Article 17: (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property."

Therefore the political objectives of the two organizations can not be equated.

>>>>>>>give it a rest,Piratis ,for God's sake...The political objective of Eoka was to give all of Cyprus away to a foreign power...The political objective of TMT was to make sure part of that country remained under Turkish control...But your demands came first,so blame yourself for all that followed..Take your head out of the sand,your mouth must be getting pretty full by now...

For the vast majority of the Cypriot people Greece is not a "foreign power". Foreign powers were the Ottomans, the British etc, who imposed their rule on our island against the will of the Cypriot people. The same with Turkey today, which does not have the support of the majority of Cypriots (which is why she had to ehtnically cleanse them).

What came first, since you want to play this game again, was your invasion in 1571 and the subsequent oppression of the Cypriot people for 3+ centuries until 1878. There were no problems between Greeks and Turks in Cyprus before that. You started it all. Since then we are simply trying to gain our freedom from those who came to our island to oppress us. I think it is time for you to give this "who started it" game a rest. The sequence of events are very clearly recorded in history and there is no need to keep repeating them.

What it is more than clear is that the political objective of union with Greece did not involve human rights violations, but the political objective of partition it did.

Piratis,
I agree with you that if the Ottomans had not captured Cyprus in 1571 non of us would be here now...And we would be in another stupid situation...But history doesnt work like that...History is a process,not a zero sum equation...And there is little justice in the hsitorical process...Especially if we go back in history...We cannot change what happened in 1571...We can learn from history and not repeat the same mistakes..Now we can do something about the present situation if we read our recent history properly...This is where you are failing...You wanted Enosis with Greece not giving a damn about the TC reservations,that was your first mistake (in recent memory)...When you didnt get your way you signed an agreement and threw it in the bin before the ink was dry...That was the second mistake....You threw the TCs our of government (albeit with a little help from the TMT),and tried to achieve Enosis underhandedly...That was your third mistake...When that failed the fanatics,with the help of the Greek Junta tried again in 1974...This time to force Enosis by guns...That was the forth mistake...And they all involved your dream of Enosis with Greece...When are you going to learn your lesson??? You have made too many mistakes and you have to pay for them by making compromises now...That is how history works...It is a process,cause and effect...You are still trying to get one up over the TCs....this time via Enosis with
Greece via the EU>>>>it will not work,and you are damaging Cyprus more and more...
Listen to Kifeas...He knows what he is talking about,and he knows what I am talking about...Listen to him,and we will find a solution,not the ideal for you,but a solution which will bring peace to our beloved homeland..Please...

As always you are trying to blame the Cypriot people instead of the Turkish invaders.

As you admitted, Cyprus would not have any such problem if it wasn't for your aggression against our island. This answers the question "Who started it", in a very clear way.

Beyond that history is a chain of events, one thing brings another. We can't change the 1571-1878 anymore than we can change what happened in the 60s, or even yesterday for that matter.

Yes, we should learn from the past, but it seems you don't. Today you continue doing the exact same thing that you were doing from the very first day you came to our island: Stealing our land, transferring Anatolian Settlers to Cyprus, refusing to Cypriots the right to democratically decide the destiny of their own island and instead forcing your will by means of brute force, and trying to Turkify part of our island.

You came to Cyprus as oppressors, and you remain oppressors. At no point did you accept to be equal Cypriots and respect the democratically expressed and perfectly legitimate wishes of the Cypriot people. You still want to be some privileged rulers, with the power to overwrite every wish of the Cypriot people.

This was the case during Ottoman rule, this was the case in the 50s when you collaborated with the British Imperialists in order to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and gain back your Ottoman privileges on our expense, and this continues to be the case today.

We can't change history, but the future doesn't have to be more of the same oppression and tyranny of the Turks against the Cypriot people. You have to accept to let go of your oppressive empire, and embrace the 21st century. In the 21st century there can be no divisions of the people based on their race, religion or language, as it was the case during Ottoman rule and as you want to maintain it today. In the 21st century you can't conquer and Turkify lands by force anymore. In the 21st century all citizens of a country are equal people with the same exact rights, and ethnic minorities can have some additional minority rights. This is what happened in all modern democratic countries, and this is what should happen in Cyprus as well, and not the anachronistic crap you want to force in Cyprus yet again.

How you doing we have not spoke much have we? when the Ottomans invaded who was controlling cyprus at the time? I think you know the answer, but I do have a point so go with me on this.

[denizaksulu]

Thank you Deniz.

Piratis, for you .....

You are welcome

[BirKibrisli]

Piratis -

Yes, we should learn from the past, but it seems you don't. Today you continue doing the exact same thing that you were doing from the very first day you came to our island: Stealing our land, transferring Anatolian Settlers to Cyprus, refusing to Cypriots the right to democratically decide the destiny of their own island and instead forcing your will by means of brute force, and trying to Turkify part of our island.

For the past umpteen years our leaders have been trying for a solution. In time I have no doubt a solution will be found, but please stop saying that the stuff above goes on today, because it doesn't.

Any land that was 'stolen' & any settler that has settled in the north isn't occurring now, that was in the past.
Now, both sides hold democratic elections.
And with the publics support, our leaders may even reach a solution that is acceptable to the majority.

Listen to the wise words that have been said in this and many other topics and let go of this one track mind that says we shouldn't be here, 1571, ottomans, oppression blah blah blah.
The TC's belong in Cyprus, their home.

Where's that gramaphone records picture that Deniz likes so much

You continue to illegaly occupy our lands today, and you continue to import more and more settlers. You also continue trying to Turkify part of our island.

And if you think we will ever get tired of fighting for the freedom of our island from foreign invaders you are very mistaken. During our long history on this island we have seen several such foreign invaders come and go.

Your place in Cyprus can only be as equal Cypriot citizens and as an ethnic minority. If you want to be anything more than that on our expense, then in the end you will lose everything and you will fully deserve what will happen to you. Don't tell me I didn't warn you.

I give up on you,Piratis...We need 100s of Deniz's gramaphones to symbolise your position...You do not want the TCs to be equal citizens...You want revenge and retribution for the Ottoman years...It was the same song in the 1870s (Enosis),1930s (Enosis),1950s (Enosis),1960s (Enosis),1970s (Enosis),and now (Enosis)...The only difference is these days you know an open Enosis is impossible,so you are opting for Enosis via the EU...The only motivation you have is bitterness and hatred towards the TCs who you always regarded as your oppressors...You think you are wisely hiding behing the democracy and human rights rhetoric,but others on this forum give the game away...You will not rest till there is not one TC is left in Cyprus...Even if that means you give away 37% of your motherland...good luck!

ps

I know there are many decent,compassionate,sensible GCs on this forum,and I am proud to call them my compatriots and brothers...But you are in the minority and have no control over the bloodyminded majority as represented in this forum...Till they realise there mistakes and learn the right lessons from our bloody history there will be no solution...And more generation of Cypriots will suffer the consequences...Pity...

[Oracle]

Thank you Deniz.

Piratis, for you .....

You are welcome

Remember.

This gramophone was the reason for your forum departure (all of three days )

[denizaksulu]

Thank you Deniz.

Piratis, for you .....

You are welcome

Remember.

This gramophone was the reason for your forum departure (all of three days )

You are right on one point. Piratis does make me sick.

I thought I managed to stay away for a whole week!!!

[Piratis]

Piratis -

Yes, we should learn from the past, but it seems you don't. Today you continue doing the exact same thing that you were doing from the very first day you came to our island: Stealing our land, transferring Anatolian Settlers to Cyprus, refusing to Cypriots the right to democratically decide the destiny of their own island and instead forcing your will by means of brute force, and trying to Turkify part of our island.

For the past umpteen years our leaders have been trying for a solution. In time I have no doubt a solution will be found, but please stop saying that the stuff above goes on today, because it doesn't.

Any land that was 'stolen' & any settler that has settled in the north isn't occurring now, that was in the past.
Now, both sides hold democratic elections.
And with the publics support, our leaders may even reach a solution that is acceptable to the majority.

Listen to the wise words that have been said in this and many other topics and let go of this one track mind that says we shouldn't be here, 1571, ottomans, oppression blah blah blah.
The TC's belong in Cyprus, their home.

Where's that gramaphone records picture that Deniz likes so much

You continue to illegaly occupy our lands today, and you continue to import more and more settlers. You also continue trying to Turkify part of our island.

And if you think we will ever get tired of fighting for the freedom of our island from foreign invaders you are very mistaken. During our long history on this island we have seen several such foreign invaders come and go.

Your place in Cyprus can only be as equal Cypriot citizens and as an ethnic minority. If you want to be anything more than that on our expense, then in the end you will lose everything and you will fully deserve what will happen to you. Don't tell me I didn't warn you.

I give up on you,Piratis...We need 100s of Deniz's gramaphones to symbolise your position...You do not want the TCs to be equal citizens...You want revenge and retribution for the Ottoman years...It was the same song in the 1870s (Enosis),1930s (Enosis),1950s (Enosis),1960s (Enosis),1970s (Enosis),and now (Enosis)...The only difference is these days you know an open Enosis is impossible,so you are opting for Enosis via the EU...The only motivation you have is bitterness and hatred towards the TCs who you always regarded as your oppressors...You think you are wisely hiding behing the democracy and human rights rhetoric,but others on this forum give the game away...You will not rest till there is not one TC is left in Cyprus...Even if that means you give away 37% of your motherland...good luck!

ps

I know there are many decent,compassionate,sensible GCs on this forum,and I am proud to call them my compatriots and brothers...But you are in the minority and have no control over the bloodyminded majority as represented in this forum...Till they realise there mistakes and learn the right lessons from our bloody history there will be no solution...And more generation of Cypriots will suffer the consequences...Pity...

The one who wants to give us "lessons" and punish us for what happened in the past is none else than you.

I do want TCs to be equal citizens and I ask for none of their human rights to be violated. If instead of arguing with what I actually support, you want to argue against some imaginary positions that I do not have (because you can't argue with my real positions) that is quite pathetic.

I don't want enosis today, I am simply saying the fact that enosis was our right in the 50s, which has been denied. So stop confusing the two.

Also I want you to tell me how the union of Cyprus with EU has harmed the TCs. If anything it has benefited many TCs and it can benefit even more of them when a solution will be hopefully found.

It is time for you to understand that you don't have the right to tell Cyprus where it can belong and where it can not. Joining EU violated none of your rights and therefore this is a decision to be taken democratically by the majority, either you agree with it or not.

[YFred]

Thank you Deniz.

Piratis, for you .....

You are welcome

Remember.

This gramophone was the reason for your forum departure (all of three days )

You are right on one point. Piratis does make me sick.

I thought I managed to stay away for a whole week!!!

Where is Dr J when you need him. Or is he not a real doctor? Ohps sorry I meant B25.