Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Reliable and loyal!

Naturally, after all they were descending from a warrior tribe.

They remind me of Shrek! Reliable and loyal but as daft as a brush!

Isn't that what your average Bobby is about. Has any of been to high school?

[Get Real!]

Firstly, I do not think that any of this is so important anymore but I don’t appreciate it when someone makes a sweeping statement like… “They fought for enosis” etc, when in actual fact the oath of allegiance to the cause makes no mention of enosis whatsoever so it IS a MANUFACTURED extension of that oath!

but sweeping statements like

The Turkish Cypriots never fought but were freed thanks to the GCs.

are fine with you ?

Now, if some elements ALSO HAD underlying goals then that’s a DIFFERENT issue altogether but it’s not fair to condemn every single Cypriot out there who joined EOKA because of the British into a combined aspiration for Greece!

I love this 'some elements' The man who set it up and ran it is 'some lements' !

For the record I do not condem GC for aspiring to and wanting enosis. I lament the effects this aspiration had on Cyprus's futre and condem some of the means by which some sought to achieve the aspiration but I do not condem people for having it.

But let us not pretend GR that for GC in general and GC leadership specificaly that both pre and to a significant degree post Indepedance the sapiration was for Enosis. If we do that we have to ignore everything that Grivas said and struggeld for, Makarios said and struggled for long after Indpendance, the plebsites dubious as the obviously are and the votes by an ELCETED GC leadership as lat as the 70's expressing the continued desire and apsiration for Enosis.

To deny this real desire and attempts to achieve enosis OVER Indepedance by the GC community and especially its leaders both before and after Indpedance would be to massively distort reality. I am sure this is not you objective is it GR?

I totally abhor enosis with Greece or any other country for that matter, and by the same token the TC enosis with Turkey manifested in the “TRNC” equally disgusts me!

The ONLY point I wanted to make here is that NOT EVERYONE who took the EOKA oath was pro-enosis, and perhaps THAT IS WHY it was NOT included in the oath… evidence that enosis wasn’t as popular as some make it seem!

[YFred]

Firstly, I do not think that any of this is so important anymore but I don’t appreciate it when someone makes a sweeping statement like… “They fought for enosis” etc, when in actual fact the oath of allegiance to the cause makes no mention of enosis whatsoever so it IS a MANUFACTURED extension of that oath!

but sweeping statements like

The Turkish Cypriots never fought but were freed thanks to the GCs.

are fine with you ?

Now, if some elements ALSO HAD underlying goals then that’s a DIFFERENT issue altogether but it’s not fair to condemn every single Cypriot out there who joined EOKA because of the British into a combined aspiration for Greece!

I love this 'some elements' The man who set it up and ran it is 'some lements' !

For the record I do not condem GC for aspiring to and wanting enosis. I lament the effects this aspiration had on Cyprus's futre and condem some of the means by which some sought to achieve the aspiration but I do not condem people for having it.

But let us not pretend GR that for GC in general and GC leadership specificaly that both pre and to a significant degree post Indepedance the sapiration was for Enosis. If we do that we have to ignore everything that Grivas said and struggeld for, Makarios said and struggled for long after Indpendance, the plebsites dubious as the obviously are and the votes by an ELCETED GC leadership as lat as the 70's expressing the continued desire and apsiration for Enosis.

To deny this real desire and attempts to achieve enosis OVER Indepedance by the GC community and especially its leaders both before and after Indpedance would be to massively distort reality. I am sure this is not you objective is it GR?

I totally abhor enosis with Greece or any other country for that matter, and by the same token the TC enosis with Turkey manifested in the “TRNC” equally disgusts me!

The ONLY point I wanted to make here is that NOT EVERYONE who took the EOKA oath was pro-enosis, and perhaps THAT IS WHY it was NOT included in the oath… evidence that enosis wasn’t as popular as some make it seem!

Yet they were able to overthrow the elected government?
What about the honesty of roc preparing to destroy itself to joint with greece.
GR stop it, because you can't even fool yourself never mind any others.

[Get Real!]

Yet they were able to overthrow the elected government?

You just jumped two decades into the future from what we were discussing!

A true Shrek!

What about the honesty of roc preparing to destroy itself to joint with greece. GR stop it, because you can't even fool yourself never mind any others.

??? Y-Fronts, just go to bed will you!

[erolz3]

The ONLY point I wanted to make here is that NOT EVERYONE who took the EOKA oath was pro-enosis, and perhaps THAT IS WHY it was NOT included in the oath… evidence that enosis wasn’t as popular as some make it seem!

But you do accept that for the man who set up and ran EOKA, enosis and NOT Independance was HIS goal, and not a secret one either ? You do accept that for Makarios , the spiritual and politcal leader of the GC community Enosis and not independance was his goal both before Indpedance was achieved and for some time after it ? You do accept that as late as the 70's an all GC elected RoC house was passing resolutions re affirming the GC communities desire for Enosis over Indpendance ?

Also would you care to comment on what the objective of those in TMT was in your view ? Was swearing a comittment to Taksim a part of joining TMT ? Were there those in TMT for whom the objective was defending their community and not the political objective of Taksim ? Is this evidence that amongst TC taksim was not as popular as some make it seem ?

[Sotos]

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

Cyprus should have been part of the first Greek Republic in 1821. The Turks attacked and killed Cypriots to stop us from being free... like they did again in the 50s. The problem of Cyprus is the Turkish expansionism. The invade our island, kill the Cypriot people, bring their Settlers on our island and they give to them the land they steal from us.

[Get Real!]

The ONLY point I wanted to make here is that NOT EVERYONE who took the EOKA oath was pro-enosis, and perhaps THAT IS WHY it was NOT included in the oath… evidence that enosis wasn’t as popular as some make it seem!

But you do accept that for the man who set up and ran EOKA, enosis and NOT Independance was HIS goal, and not a secret one either ? You do accept that for Makarios , the spiritual and politcal leader of the GC community Enosis and not independance was his goal both before Indpedance was achieved and for some time after it ? You do accept that as late as the 70's an all GC elected RoC house was passing resolutions re affirming the GC communities desire for Enosis over Indpendance ?

Also would you care to comment on what the objective of those in TMT was in your view ? Was swearing a comittment to Taksim a part of joining TMT ? Were there those in TMT for whom the objective was defending their community and not the political objective of Taksim ? Is this evidence that amongst TC taksim was not as popular as some make it seem ?

I’ve made the “intrusions” I wanted to make regarding the EOKA oath, but I’m not prepared to discuss the two issues above because that’s a whole new can of worms and I have to do some international news reading right now. No offence intended Erol.

[erolz3]

The ONLY point I wanted to make here is that NOT EVERYONE who took the EOKA oath was pro-enosis, and perhaps THAT IS WHY it was NOT included in the oath… evidence that enosis wasn’t as popular as some make it seem!

But you do accept that for the man who set up and ran EOKA, enosis and NOT Independance was HIS goal, and not a secret one either ? You do accept that for Makarios , the spiritual and politcal leader of the GC community Enosis and not independance was his goal both before Indpedance was achieved and for some time after it ? You do accept that as late as the 70's an all GC elected RoC house was passing resolutions re affirming the GC communities desire for Enosis over Indpendance ?

Also would you care to comment on what the objective of those in TMT was in your view ? Was swearing a comittment to Taksim a part of joining TMT ? Were there those in TMT for whom the objective was defending their community and not the political objective of Taksim ? Is this evidence that amongst TC taksim was not as popular as some make it seem ?

I’ve made the “intrusions” I wanted to make regarding the EOKA oath, but I’m not prepared to discuss the two issues above because that’s a whole new can of worms and I have to do some international news reading right now. No offence intended Erol.

No offense taken at all GR, just a lingering suspicion of avoidance perhaps ? No offence intended.

[Sotos]

Independence my arse! 1960 agreements was enslavement of cyprus to the invaders. The British and the Turks. Independence means the Cypriot people to be free from those British and Turkish invaders and decide independently from them what to do. And what we wanted to do was to be part of the Greece like all other Greek islands. But like 1821 you again attacked us and killed Cypriots to stop Cyprus from being free and you forced some constitution that would make Cyprus the slave of UK and Turkey again!

[Malapapa]

My fellow Cypriots,

EOKA achieved independence of the island (1960) with blood and sacrifice.

20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, but perhaps you ought to scrutinise the constitution (1960) to see the sort of independence that was actually achieved (with blood and sacrifice);

the imposed establishment of an apartheid system of governance, with citizens divided into two "communities" and the resulting racist privileges afforded to members of the smaller of these "communities";

the racist neglect of all other ethnic minority citizens on the island;

the imposed treaty of alliance with Greece, Turkey and the UK;

the imposed treaty of guarantee with Greece, Turkey and the UK;

the imposed retention by the UK government of two massive sovereign bases plus associated additional rights over the whole island.

This constitution should have remained unsigned by a Cypriot leader and the struggle for "independence" should have continued - as this arrangement was, as history attests, a sham.