Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Georgios isn't a Turkish name.

Turk (as far as CyProb goes) is anyone who supports Ankara.

(... as if you were naive to be fooled by a name )

[Malapapa]

Georgios isn't a Turkish name.

Turk (as far as CyProb goes) is anyone who supports Ankara.

(... as if you were naive to be fooled by a name )

"Georgios", are you really a Turk? (as in a supporter of Ankara?)

[Piratis]

You are trying to claim that Cyprus is not Greek because a few pre-historic people inhabited the island as it is the case in all other parts of the world.

No I saying, prefectly reasonably that if Greek culture did not originate in Cyprus then it can not be said to be the indigenous culture by definition. If it did originate in Cyprus then that means by definition it did not originate in Greece, or anywhere else.

You are wrong. You are talking as if the "Greek Culture" was something ready made that was imported. This is not the case. The Greek Culture was something that evolved over 1000s of years (and still evolves) and Cyprus was one of the important places where this evolutions accured right from the more early stages.

Of course Greek culture evolved over time and evolved in various different places, but it had to originate in ONE place. That is what originate means. You can argue where and when represented that origination but you can not argue that it originated in many different places. It evolved in many different places but it originated in one.

French culture can be said to have orginated in France. You are saying that Greek culture originated in Cyprus and if this is true then it means by definition it did not originate in Greece, for example.

As far as us and you go we are more geneticaly similar to each other than to either mainland Greeks or Turks. It is only culturaly that we differ.

This is in direct contradiction with historical references that many other TCs present in the forum.

Whoever present arguments to the contrary, the scientific evidence for us being more geneticaly similar to each as GC and TC than either Greeks or Turks is compelling and devoid of political, racial or ethnic bias and ideologies.

The Greek culture originates from Greek world, and the Greek world includes Cyprus.

You just refuse to accept what originate actually means.

Unfortunately your logic is based on your own culture and based on it you are trying to make assumptions about ours.

My logic is in fact based on logic and standard definitions of what indigenous and originate mean. You are the one that appears to want to distort the plain meaning of the words for some sort of ideological reason, not me.

French cultre can be said to have orginated in France. It may have and has evolved in many locations outside of france but it can be sensibly said to have originated in France.

You claim that Greek culture originated in Cyprus AND it also originated in many other locations. This is just a distortion of what originate means.

Using your "logic" one would say that you can not claim that the French culture originated from both Paris and Lyon. But it did. Not just from Paris and Lyon but from many other French cities and territories.

I should remind you that the first Greek state was created in the 19th century, and Cyprus could have easily been part of it, if the Ottoman butchers had not prevented this from happening by massacring 100s of innocent people. The Greek civilization however existed for thousands of years before that and originated from the various Greek city states. Not just Athens, not just Sparta, not just Thebes, not just Corinth, not just Salamis but from all the Greek city states together.

All those Greek city states put together made up what is knows as the ancient Greek World, which would be the equivalent of "Greece" or "France", if the concept of a country existed back then.

Just because you prevented Cyprus from being part of the modern Greek state, this doesn't erase all our history as part of the ancient Greek world which is from where the Greek civilization originates. The Greek civilization did not originate just within the limited borders of the modern Greek state as you foolishly assume, since there were no such borders at the time that the civilization was first created.

As far as the origins of TCs goes, ask Halil and he will give you a detailed information about how many Turks were imported to Cyprus and from where exactly they were imported from. Do you disagree with Halil?

[Acikgoz]

Hey Pipi, with all that glory of Greece you shroud yourself in what of the Macedonians? How's their flag situation coming along?

Nations and their type form, evolve, disperse, recreate since the dawn of tribalism. Each culture borrows from another and evolves assimilating and adapting. There is never a true moment when the journey starts and a race is created, it evolves.

One could say define where in Paris French culture originated - was it in the Tuileries, or perhaps in Monmatre or even Notre Dame - who defined it as French culture it could only be from one person and an original with no outside bearing at that to take your purist notion of origination.

[DT.]

Hey Pipi, with all that glory of Greece you shroud yourself in what of the Macedonians? How's their flag situation coming along?

Nations and their type form, evolve, disperse, recreate since the dawn of tribalism. Each culture borrows from another and evolves assimilating and adapting. There is never a true moment when the journey starts and a race is created, it evolves.

One could say define where in Paris French culture originated - was it in the Tuileries, or perhaps in Monmatre or even Notre Dame - who defined it as French culture it could only be from one person and an original with no outside bearing at that to take your purist notion of origination.

I think you'll find thats what Piratis is saying. The only one with the "purist notion of origination" is Erolz on this thread.

[Oracle]

Hey Pipi, with all that glory of Greece you shroud yourself in what of the Macedonians? How's their flag situation coming along?

Nations and their type form, evolve, disperse, recreate since the dawn of tribalism. Each culture borrows from another and evolves assimilating and adapting. There is never a true moment when the journey starts and a race is created, it evolves.

One could say define where in Paris French culture originated - was it in the Tuileries, or perhaps in Monmatre or even Notre Dame - who defined it as French culture it could only be from one person and an original with no outside bearing at that to take your purist notion of origination.

I think you'll find thats what Piratis is saying. The only one with the "purist notion of origination" is Erolz on this thread.

I think you'll find such an extreme notion of "purity" ascends from Africa. But Erolz being the hypocrite he is, he was busy, earlier, trying to convince me that Black Africans cannot be described as "native" to Africa

[georgios100]

Georgios isn't a Turkish name.

Turk (as far as CyProb goes) is anyone who supports Ankara.

(... as if you were naive to be fooled by a name )

"Georgios", are you really a Turk? (as in a supporter of Ankara?)

I am a Cypriot.
Please see http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28527

Was born at Famagusta, year 1954. Native language is Greek. Christian Orthodox by religion. Participated in 1974 war (fighting for the Greek side).
When asked (here in Canada) where I come from, the answer is "I am a Cypriot". I don't specify Greek or Turkish unless asked. This is what we all are. Cypriots. Both, GCs & TCs. When & if finally this island is united, it's citizens will be recognized as Cypriots, nothing more.
The same goes for Canadian citizens when they travel abroad. When asked, they reply "I am Canadian" regardless of race or skin color. Lately, even the French Canadians refer to themselves as "Canadians" when asked. Believe it or not.

The distinction Greek/Turkish Cypriot is inflammatory. This is the reason we are so divided and yet... we want to unite. If both communities want to proceed with this giant step called "united Cyprus", they better get ready to face the realities of distinction. Supporters of distinction must step aside to make room for cooler heads to prevail. Otherwise, forget about the whole thing and go home.

Any person who engages into conversation with the "enemy" should not be considered a "Turk". President Christofias is talking to them every so often. Is he a "Turk"? Christofias already agreed with Talat in a few areas. Does that make him a "Turk"?

I was with the impression this forum was set up to encourage discussion between the two parties and exchange ideas for a possible solution. So far nothing but brutal attacks on each other are taking place. How nice.

Being a Greek Cypriot but open minded is not a crime.
Taking bold steps to seek a solution is not a crime.
Agreeing with the "enemy" when a common issue is resolved is not a crime.

If you "really" want a solution, exchange ideas with a clear head. After all, we are Europeans now, so starting acting like a European.

Georgios100

[Malapapa]

Georgios isn't a Turkish name.

Turk (as far as CyProb goes) is anyone who supports Ankara.

(... as if you were naive to be fooled by a name )

"Georgios", are you really a Turk? (as in a supporter of Ankara?)

I am a Cypriot.
Please see http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28527

Was born at Famagusta, year 1954. Native language is Greek. Christian Orthodox by religion. Participated in 1974 war (fighting for the Greek side).
When asked (here in Canada) where I come from, the answer is "I am a Cypriot". I don't specify Greek or Turkish unless asked. This is what we all are. Cypriots. Both, GCs & TCs. When & if finally this island is united, it's citizens will be recognized as Cypriots, nothing more.
The same goes for Canadian citizens when they travel abroad. When asked, they reply "I am Canadian" regardless of race or skin color. Lately, even the French Canadians refer to themselves as "Canadians" when asked. Believe it or not.

The distinction Greek/Turkish Cypriot is inflammatory. This is the reason we are so divided and yet... we want to unite. If both communities want to proceed with this giant step called "united Cyprus", they better get ready to face the realities of distinction. Supporters of distinction must step aside to make room for cooler heads to prevail. Otherwise, forget about the whole thing and go home.

Any person who engages into conversation with the "enemy" should not be considered a "Turk". President Christofias is talking to them every so often. Is he a "Turk"? Christofias already agreed with Talat in a few areas. Does that make him a "Turk"?

I was with the impression this forum was set up to encourage discussion between the two parties and exchange ideas for a possible solution. So far nothing but brutal attacks on each other are taking place. How nice.

Being a Greek Cypriot but open minded is not a crime.
Taking bold steps to seek a solution is not a crime.
Agreeing with the "enemy" when a common issue is resolved is not a crime.

If you "really" want a solution, exchange ideas with a clear head. After all, we are Europeans now, so starting acting like a European.

Georgios100

Thanks. Indeed. I am and I do.

I was by no means casting dispersions, merely seeking clarity after Oracle's bizarre intervention.

[Oracle]

Any person who engages into conversation with the "enemy" should not be considered a "Turk". President Christofias is talking to them every so often. Is he a "Turk"? Christofias already agreed with Talat in a few areas. Does that make him a "Turk"?

I said "support" Ankara, not merely converse!

BTW, "geargios" this is what annoyed me, just so that you don't think it was random:

... I am wondering about the legality of TMT when the northern part of Cyprus joins the EU.

FYI, The northern part of Cyprus is in the EU under the legitimate government of the RoC.

(There were a few minor matters also, but hopefully Malapapa will get the gist).

[erolz3]

I think you'll find thats what Piratis is saying. The only one with the "purist notion of origination" is Erolz on this thread.

The issue was not of purity of origins. The question is can Greek culture be considered the 'indegenous culture' of Cyprus or not.

If that culture came to Cyprus from outside Cyprus then by definition it is not 'indigenous' to Cyprus.

If that culture originated IN Cyprus and spread outwards from there then it can be said to be the indigneous culture off Cyprus.

But Erolz being the hypocrite he is, he was busy, earlier, trying to convince me that Black Africans cannot be described as "native" to Africa

You perversion of truth is unashamed and blatant as ever Oracle.

What I said, and its all there for all to see, is that your choice to define those in SA who were not 'native' ie whites not as SA but as foreigners was indiciative of a mindset of a form of exclusive and divisive nationalism rather than an inculsive one.

It is a notion that the ANC itself as far back as 1955 explicitly rejected BECAUSE it was a divisive notion of nationalism and instead comitted themselves to an inclusive one.