Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz3]

Ethnic minorities do not have any separate right for self-determination so stop repeating nonsense.

Ethnic minorites do not have seperate rights to self determination. Peoples DO. If you define GC as part of the indivsiable unitary Greek people then you also define TC as NOT part of this people and therefore by basic logic they are part of some other peoples, with a seperate RIGHT to self detemination.

It is exactly because different rights accrue to ethnic minorites within an existing unitary nation state than to peoples that you refuse to accept that TC are a different people to you even when at the same time you declare that your are an indivisible part of the Greek people.

I will continue to repeat this as long as you contine to deny it.

[Piratis]

Ethnic minorities do not have any separate right for self-determination so stop repeating nonsense.

Ethnic minorites do not have seperate rights to self determination. Peoples DO. If you define GC as part of the indivsiable unitary Greek people then you also define TC as NOT part of this people and therefore by basic logic they are part of some other peoples, with a seperate RIGHT to self detemination.

It is exactly because different rights accrue to ethnic minorites within an existing unitary nation state than to peoples that you refuse to accept that TC are a different people to you even when at the same time you declare that your are an indivisible part of the Greek people.

What you repeat is the definition of an ethnic minority. When different peoples live mixed in the same geographic location, the ones who have the biggest population are the ethnic majority, and the rest are ethnic minorities.

ethnic minority: a group that has different national or cultural traditions from the majority of the population

ethnic minority: a group of people who have a different ethnicity, religion, language or culture to that of the majority of people in the place where they live.

Of course we are part of the Greek people and you are not. This is something you knew from day one when you came to our island. Or maybe you will tell me that when you choose to come to our island you didn't know you were a different people from those who already inhabited this island?

Just like the Turks are part of the Turkish people and the Greek minority in Turkey is not. Same EXACT thing. That is what ethnic minority is all about!

And no, ethnic minorities do not have any separate self-determination right.

I will continue to repeat this as long as you contine to deny it.

You can continue repeating nonsense, but that will not make your nonsense any more valid.

[Acikgoz]

For those that wish to use the word apartheid in relation to Cyprus should look at the following definition:

Racial segregation in South Africa began in colonial times, but apartheid as an official policy was introduced following the general election of 1948. New legislation classified inhabitants into racial groups ("black", "white", "coloured", and "Indian"), and residential areas were segregated by means of forced removals. From 1958, Blacks were deprived of their citizenship, legally becoming citizens of one of ten tribally based self-governing homelands called bantustans, four of which became nominally independent states. The government segregated education, medical care, and other public services, and provided black people with services inferior to those of whites.

This was exactly the situation TCs found themselves in after 1963 despite being Cypriots too. The negative connotation of apartheid is fundamentaly its utility in describing a division based upon race, and in the situation of Cyprus GC and TC.

So GCs please use the term correctly as you try to squeeze the breath from our beaten bodies.

[Get Real!]

So GCs please use the term correctly as you try to squeeze the breath from our beaten bodies.

If you’re feeling a little bit breathless it may because you’re about to burst from eating too much after selling all the GC properties and ancient artifacts…

[Acikgoz]

Nope, it's because my footballer friends cannot play internationally, my hellim producing friends cannot sell their wares in Europe, etc. etc. etc.

This crap was going on before 1983 and the issue of title - so pedal your wares like pipi to those that have no clue.

[Get Real!]

we should stay strong and get our recognition we deserve.

And who says you do? The only thing you deserve is a good kick in the goolies…

[Piratis]

For those that wish to use the word apartheid in relation to Cyprus should look at the following definition:

Racial segregation in South Africa began in colonial times, but apartheid as an official policy was introduced following the general election of 1948. New legislation classified inhabitants into racial groups ("black", "white", "coloured", and "Indian"), and residential areas were segregated by means of forced removals. From 1958, Blacks were deprived of their citizenship, legally becoming citizens of one of ten tribally based self-governing homelands called bantustans, four of which became nominally independent states. The government segregated education, medical care, and other public services, and provided black people with services inferior to those of whites.

This was exactly the situation TCs found themselves in after 1963 despite having to have been Cypriots too. The negative connotation of apartheid is fundamentaly its utility in describing a division based upon race, and in the situation of Cyprus GC and TC.

So GCs please use the term correctly as you try to squeeze the breath from our beaten bodies.

Partition was a demand of TCs since the 1950s before any conflict started. Everything you did since then was based on this aim of yours.

As Denktash said in 1964: "We wish to establish a federal administration in Cyprus. In order to achieve this, it is necessary to move a portion of the Turks from one place to another place and to concentrate our people in certain parts of the island"

What he didn't say is the other half of the plan: To ethnically cleanse the GCs from those parts.

Racial segregation in South Africa began in colonial times, but apartheid as an official policy was introduced following the general election of 1948. New legislation classified inhabitants into racial groups ("black", "white", "coloured", and "Indian"), and residential areas were segregated by means of forced removals.

So exactly what the Turks want for Cyprus. To divide citizens based on their race, giving disproportionally high amounts of power to themselves, and to segregate people by means of forced removals.

From 1958, Blacks were deprived of their citizenship, legally becoming citizens of one of ten tribally based self-governing homelands called bantustans, four of which became nominally independent states. The government segregated education, medical care, and other public services, and provided black people with services inferior to those of whites.

That would be the 2nd stage of Apartheid and what our future might be like if we start accepting the racist demands of the Turkish minority.

[Acikgoz]

Pipi,

Those were Greek mainland guns being brought into the docks, it was a Greek junta that was the final straw, TCs were living in enclaves to save their lives- you jerk. It was your people that killed members of my family, simple people that had no reason to die.

Spew your crap somewhere else.

Doesn't wash in the real world.

[Get Real!]

Nope, it's because my footballer friends cannot play internationally,

If your footballer friends were good enough to play internationally they already would!

my hellim producing friends cannot sell their wares in Europe, etc. etc. etc.

Isn't Turkey's 70 million strong market big enough for you?


PS: Fuck your stupid Hellim... where are the ancient artifacts?

[erolz3]

You can continue repeating nonsense, but that will not make your nonsense any more valid.

There is a reson why the rights to self determination apply to peoples and NOT to ethnicites,governments or countries.

The reason why it applies to peoples and not ethnicites is because it is perfectly possible for groups of different ethnicities to define themselves as a unitary people, by having a greater commonality between them than these ethnic differences.

As a group you can choose to express your right to self determination as a part of a people based on ethnicity or you can choose to base it on a commonality regardless of ethnicity. What you can not do is express the right as a member of two different peoples at the same time. That is you can not express your right to self determination as part of both the greek people and part of the cypriot poeple as well. As far as expressing the right to self determination goes it one or the other. You can BE GC or TC and yet still choose to express your right to self determination as part of a Cypriot people, or you can choose to express it as part of the Greek or Turkish people, you can not express it as BOTH.

Enosis by defintion is a choice to express your right to self determination as GC as part of the Greek people and therefore NOT as part of the Cypriot peoples. By definition it therefore makes TC, as far as expressing THEIR right to self determination a different and seperate people.

Indpendance on the other hand says exatcly the opposite. It says even though and despite the fact that we are of different ethnicites we choose to express our rights to self determination not based on these differences but based on a commonality greater than these, namely being Cypriot.

You can seek enosis as an expression of the right to self determination as part of the greek people. You can not seek enosis as an expression of the right to self determination of a unitary Cypriot people because that would be to try and claim rights to self determination simultaneously as both part of an indivisable Greek people and part of a unitary Cypriot people.

The above is plain and simple and self evident. Your denial of it is because of your fundamental belief that Cyprus is Greek and only Greek and that anything that is not Greek should not have and can not have an effective voice in the running of Cyprus and not based on the international defined rights to self determination of peoples or logic.

This denial of our rights as people for whom Cyprus is their homeland and are who are not Greek in the face of your choice to express YOUR rights to self determination as part of the Greek people (enosis) is the core of the Cyprus problem.

Not only do you deny these rights but you then go on to use this denial as justifcation for GC leaderships to ignore their signatures on agreements and use any means including ethnic violence to remove any expression of such rights codified in legaly binding agreements and outside of any legal framework and without any need for legal due process.