Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

Piratis...if enosis was wanted that much by the majority we would have had it...i believe cyprus was offered to greece at some stage and greece refused it...could be wrong...

The British didn't offer Cyprus without asking for something in return.

What should have happened is what we had asked to happen and it was denied to us. A referendum where the Cypriot people could democratically decide the destiny of their own island, either this was enosis or independence. If such a referendum was allowed then there wouldn't be even a need for EOKA or an armed struggle.

Personally I would accept the democratic decision of the Cypriot people whatever that was, as long as the referendum included all legitimate options so the Cypriots could freely express their will. Do we agree on this?

if the majority were pro enosis as you claim how come they were losing the coup in 74?...

[erolz3]

Not only do have to explain the 50's 'plecesite'...

Ask and you shall receive...

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle08.htm


But here's something for YOU to explain...

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle09.htm

It is simple GR!...Those TCs were most probably members or sympathisers of AKEL...Akel was supporting the Enosis push at the time arguing that communism would triumph in Greece and Cyprus would become part of the great Communist Utopia....

Thanks for TC theory #1. I'll now wait for Erol's too and then give the most entertaining one a prize!

First you quote your own site where you argue that the 'plebisite' (that was submitted to the UN by the way) that claimed a 95-98% support for enosis amongst GC was meaningless in terms of showing any real support from GC for enosis.

Then you quote your own site again, where you cite a source that is a blog labeled 'Hellenic International Relations' and also then claim that

A figure as to the number of Turkish Cypriots who approved the 1950 plebiscite for Union with Greece, can be found at the History department of the York University in Toronto, Ontario Canada, which has this to say…

Yet a search of their website produces no matches to such a document. Clearly if there is such a document it must itself refer to a more primary source , which without being able to know what this source is, then no critical analysis of its accuracy can be made.

Even IF you accept that the claimed document exists at the History department of the York University in Toronto, Ontario Canada AND the source for this document is credible and you accept that 800 TC did vote for the plebsite you still remain with the following contradictions in your claims.

95-98% of GC signing this petition is a reflection of little to no real support amongst GC for enosis, yet a claimed but unverifed support of less than 0.1% of TC is evidence that, according to you quoting a hellenic blog that

This is a clear indication of the fantastic possibilities for the harmonious cohabitation of the two communities as long as non-Cypriot elements refrain from creating tensions between them.

So whilst you first argue that what the plebisite means re GC support for enosis with claimed 95-98% support is meaningless, you then claim what an alledged support of less than .1% of TC is no only not meaningless but a 'clear indication' that we could have all got along under enosis if not for medelling of outsiders.

Finally your own source, the hellenic blog, you use also states itself about support for enosis amongst GC the folowing

On the surface it seemed that the colonial government was indifferent to the current in favor of Enosis which by the end of December 1949 had reached enormous proportions within the Greek Cypriot community

My emphasis.

[EPSILON]

George , the T/Cs never entered the equation , frankly they were considered as second class citizens , their feelings were of no interest to us , the majority.
The struggle was a noble one the goal was wrong. The T/Cs would perhaps have struggled alongside us if the struggle was for independence , alas the ultimate dream was flawed .

Miltiades, pls consider following case: WWII starts today 2010. Germans pombing London. British start to defend their country. Some, of thousands of minorities in UK, helping Germans- not only spying but also killing British.
Then, in 2020 , these Indians, Pakistanes, Russians etc, demanding share of UK territory/government.

give me the difference between abv scenario with the situation in Cyprus today.

[yorgozlu]

George , the T/Cs never entered the equation , frankly they were considered as second class citizens , their feelings were of no interest to us , the majority.
The struggle was a noble one the goal was wrong. The T/Cs would perhaps have struggled alongside us if the struggle was for independence , alas the ultimate dream was flawed .

Miltiades, pls consider following case: WWII starts today 2010. Germans pombing London. British start to defend their country. Some, of thousands of minorities in UK, helping Germans- not only spying but also killing British.
Then, in 2020 , these Indians, Pakistanes, Russians etc, demanding share of UK territory/government.

give me the difference between abv scenario with the situation in Cyprus today.

Interested in my wiev?

[Piratis]

Piratis...if enosis was wanted that much by the majority we would have had it...i believe cyprus was offered to greece at some stage and greece refused it...could be wrong...

The British didn't offer Cyprus without asking for something in return.

What should have happened is what we had asked to happen and it was denied to us. A referendum where the Cypriot people could democratically decide the destiny of their own island, either this was enosis or independence. If such a referendum was allowed then there wouldn't be even a need for EOKA or an armed struggle.

Personally I would accept the democratic decision of the Cypriot people whatever that was, as long as the referendum included all legitimate options so the Cypriots could freely express their will. Do we agree on this?

if the majority were pro enosis as you claim how come they were losing the coup in 74?...

Greece was ruled by the fascist junta. The majority of Cypriots didn't want neither the Junta nor a coup. Makarios who was the elected leader wanted enosis as well, but obviously not in a time that Greece was ruled by the junta. Enosis was not perused not because it was not what the majority of Cypriots wanted, but because the Turks had threatened us that if we dared to exercise our rights in Cyprus they would annihilate 100s of thousands of people and take half of our island.

[EPSILON]

Piratis...if enosis was wanted that much by the majority we would have had it...i believe cyprus was offered to greece at some stage and greece refused it...could be wrong...

The British didn't offer Cyprus without asking for something in return.

What should have happened is what we had asked to happen and it was denied to us. A referendum where the Cypriot people could democratically decide the destiny of their own island, either this was enosis or independence. If such a referendum was allowed then there wouldn't be even a need for EOKA or an armed struggle.

Personally I would accept the democratic decision of the Cypriot people whatever that was, as long as the referendum included all legitimate options so the Cypriots could freely express their will. Do we agree on this?

if the majority were pro enosis as you claim how come they were losing the coup in 74?...

Greece was ruled by the fascist junta. The majority of Cypriots didn't want neither the Junta nor a coup. Makarios who was the elected leader wanted enosis as well, but obviously not in a time that Greece was ruled by the junta. Enosis was not perused not because it was not what the majority of Cypriots wanted, but because the Turks had threatened us that if we dared to exercise our rights in Cyprus they would annihilate 100s of thousands of people and take half of our island.

How old are you?

[Piratis]

Erol, it was your choice to come to an island with a Greek population. When you were first occupying Cyprus and all other Greek territories and islands and transfering your settlers here you probably thought that the Greeks would never be free and that you would be exploiting us forever.

This was your mistake. Otherwise you would have realized that the Greeks would one day form their own Greek state which would include all Greek territories (and not 10000 separate small states) and that you would have to live in this Greek state as an ethnic minority.

I am still waiting from you (or anybody else) to tell me what was the difference between Cyprus and any other Greek island or territory.

I would've thought the answer is obvious,Piratis...All the others didn't have a choice...We did...And we took it,and Cyprus today is an independent Republic,of sorts, given that one of the founding partners is missing!

Exactly Bir. So you would do as much as you could.

During Ottoman rule you could keep the whole of Cyprus without giving any voice to the majority of the population, and that is what you did. Why didn't you give Cyprus its independence back then?

In the cases of the Imbros and Tenedos islands which also had a Greek majority and a Turkish minority, you didn't make those islands independent, you kept them as part of Turkey and you gradually annihilated the Greek majority, just because you could.

Even in the 50s you didn't even think of independence. It was Makarios who first proposed it. What you wanted was to annihilate us from half of our island and achieve partition.

So spare us the crap that you supposedly wanted independence. What you always wanted is to get as much as you can on our expense.

[EPSILON]

Erol, it was your choice to come to an island with a Greek population. When you were first occupying Cyprus and all other Greek territories and islands and transfering your settlers here you probably thought that the Greeks would never be free and that you would be exploiting us forever.

This was your mistake. Otherwise you would have realized that the Greeks would one day form their own Greek state which would include all Greek territories (and not 10000 separate small states) and that you would have to live in this Greek state as an ethnic minority.

I am still waiting from you (or anybody else) to tell me what was the difference between Cyprus and any other Greek island or territory.

I would've thought the answer is obvious,Piratis...All the others didn't have a choice...We did...And we took it,and Cyprus today is an independent Republic,of sorts, given that one of the founding partners is missing!

Exactly Bir. So you would do as much as you could.

During Ottoman rule you could keep the whole of Cyprus without giving any voice to the majority of the population, and that is what you did. Why didn't you give Cyprus its independence back then?

In the cases of the Imbros and Tenedos islands which also had a Greek majority and a Turkish minority, you didn't make those islands independent, you kept them as part of Turkey and you gradually annihilated the Greek majority, just because you could.

Even in the 50s you didn't even think of independence. It was Makarios who first proposed it. What you wanted was to annihilate us from half of our island and achieve partition.

So spare us the crap that you supposedly wanted independence. What you always wanted is to get as much as you can on our expense.

CB, my friend simple case. Greek Island (not in respect of state's belonging) which has been facked up by British, Turkish and paticularly by the Balkanians who are populated the modern Greek Republic ourtime.

[georgios100]

The GCs freed Cyprus in 1960 with heroic actions - That's leadership
The TCs always wanted partition and still do - lack of vision.
The GCs are now Europeans in every legal way - That's leadership
The TCs are at no man's land thanks to their leaders - Lack of vision
The GCs achieved prosperity and high standard of living - That's leadership
The TCs have fallen behind economically due to Ethic ideology - lack of vision
The GCs shall continue to move forward with or without the TCs - That's leadership
The TCs only choice is to join the GCs because your leaders lack vision.

1974 war, enosis, EOKA, TMT etc is the past, over & done with. Moving forward is the issue here, enough arguments. To my fellow Cypriots (TCs), get your act together, tell your leaders what has to be done and stop whining about the past. Winning a war is one thing, loosing prosperity is everything. Don't blame your current living conditions on the GCs. You wanted this mess, so now you have to clean it up. Now if this happens - That's leadership.

Both GCs & TCs should be together as one people into this community called Europe. By doing this, ENOSIS, the big looming issue, is difused.
TCs wont have to worry about it any more. Get the troops out and sit on the table to sort things out with a European attitude. Afterall, you want to be Europeans, wright?

Georgios100

[YFred]

Gerogios baby first learn how people live together and then we may begin.