Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Maybe you should do a thread to analyse the extent/lack of this desire for Enosis.

Yeah... maybe we should.

Oracle: Get Real, make me a metrion.
Get Real!: Yes Dear!

Oracle: Get Real, wash the dishes now!
Get Real: Yes Dear!

Chorokitian my arse!

[bill cobbett]

Since I started this thread the following is to be assumed as correct.

1. The GCs initiated the armed struggle, fought and succeeded in kicking the Brits out of the island. 2 military bases remain,unfinished business.
2. The TCs never fired a single shot against the Occupiers but did shoot at the GCs who wanted freedom (enosis not a majority end game)
3. The TCs wanted the partition of the island all along (even if they would remain under occupation).
4. The TCs chose continuous slavery instead of freedom.
5. We will never know if the TCs were asked by the GCs to join the fight...were they?

The TCs claim minority weakness and fear they would be wiped out by the GCs so they called for Turkey's help. Nothing wrong with that. Joining the fight against the occupier would make more sense. Instead, they became freeloaders, expecting others to take care of business. Now they want to join the EU after all the legwork was done by the GCs. Freeloading again.
It's working for them. Turk politicians were and still are better than the Greeks.

Georgios100

Interesting method of investigation and assumed conclusions. Is this something you learned in Canada or was it genetically inherited.

YFred,

I left Cyprus right after the war of 1974. Lived most of my life in Canada. I can see things with a different perspective... more realistic I might say. I learned to admit mistakes and not afraid to say so.

Your comments are ambiguous at times. Can you be more specific? Which one of the items above is incorrect? Why is it incorrect? Say what you have to say clearly and to the point. I am willing to listen. I am open to a fresh opinion, always. This is how things get done. Don't beat around the bush, come out clean and spell it out.

Georgios100

Just a few inaccuracies. There is 3 TCs killed by the Brits buried in Lurucina fighting the Brits in 58.
Eoka's policy was that all GC communists and TCs should keep out of fighting because its aims was not independence but enosis. And the kind of conclusion you come to, .......what the hell why do I bother.
GR get stuffed.
Where's Kickapoo gone?

Kickapoo Kickapoo Where are you?
Waiting for your answer on eoakapoo.

Reh Freddie, you've got it wrong.

As others have posted, the EOKA movement was, for most, a Popular Uprising for Liberation. Now the "leadership" may well have had their own dreams of enosis, but suspect you'll find enosis had as much support back in the '50s as it does today, which is from not much to bugger all.

10,000s of CYs were involved in the Liberation Campaign, in one way or another. The Campaign was universally supported by a discrete supply network that connected every village throughout the Island, ferrying food, supplies and communications. Regretfully what we hear about today are the killings and the Enosis Association.

If you ask the older generation what they were struggling for, they'll tell you what they tell me ...... Liberation from GB.

... and can also tell you that the relis I have spoken to on this subject, over the years, are/were all CY Communists, and not natural allies of the Fascist Enosists.

[Liontaroui]

Well please explain to me which 'Ethnos' they meant, then and when we swear into the National Guard.
I really hope you don't think 'Ethnos' was referring to Cyprus in that...

You need to stick to the issue at hand and refrain from jumping around like a rabbit on heat!

What is OFFICIAL is that both the DECLARATION and the OATH taken to join EOKA, do not suggest or even imply union with Greece.

Now, if SOME people (extreme right) thought OTHERWISE and had additional ulterior motives, then that’s their problem isn’t it? But it has NOTHING to do with EOKA and what it was officially set up to do.

Dude EOKA was extreme right at the core. Their membership was primarily well meaning people , but Grivas was fascist, not extreme right, fascist. He was a blackshirt in Greece during their civil war. Now, had we brought someone from the Communists my guess is it would have been a disaster for Cyprus a la Vietnam. EOKA was set up to implement enosis, after the GC petition organised by the Church. Now if we are going to hide behind blades of grass, that's a different story.

Look, when it comes to posting in the CyProb of the CF you’re expected to provide CREDIBLE EVIDENCE to back any allegations made, otherwise you’ll quickly get relegated to Y-Fronts level.

Your personal opinion of what you think EOKA was doesn’t count.

You actually need a reference for conventional knowledge? I'll have a look and see if I can find something. In any case, you either have a case of denial or you don't know your stuff as well as you claim.

[aussieturk]

It is so sad that the Ottoman empire does not exist. Everybody was so happy then! Is this the reason you are trying to recreate the Ottoman rule of Cyprus?

Times were different, but GC's keep bringing up what happened to them over 500 years ago.

Natives on Cyprus haven't ruled Cyprus ever, oh wait 5 years in the 60's then that was taken away from them.

[aussieturk]

Utter rubbish. Why do you think there was mass migration by the TC's from Cyprus in the 50's, because the TC's were treated like dirt by the GC's. For gods sake, I thought the GC's were the majority of the population, running the majoruty of businesses and reluctant to employ TC's and creating unemployment and poverty, thats why they left.

You’re talking manufactured rubbish! From the Library of Congress…

Table 7. Turkish Cypriot Population

Year - Population

1921 - 61,339
1931 - 64,245
1946 - 80,548
1960 - 104,333

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_appen.html

The TC population was steadily increasing so it’s back to uneducated grandpa for some more horror stories to justify their crimes!

You missed the drop of 1963 = 120,000, 1972 = 78,000 wonder what happened there.

[aussieturk]

yes Denied - check your history, Ottomans treated all its subjects with respect.

The empire didn't lose Cyprus. Cyprus was a gift to Britain for its assistance in the war against the Russians.

You’re trying VERY hard to take over the forum clown reigns from Y-Fronts and you’re close to getting my approval…

The 1923 Treaty of Lausanne

ARTICLE 20.
Turkey hereby recognises the annexation of Cyprus proclaimed by the British Government on the sth November, 1914.

ARTICLE 2I .
Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the 5th November, 1914, will acquire British nationality subject to the conditions laid down in the local law, and will thereupon lose their Turkish nationality. They will, however, have the right to opt for Turkish nationality within two years from the coming into force of the present Treaty, provided that they leave Cyprus within twelve months after having so opted.

Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the coming into force of the present Treaty who, at that date, have acquired or are in process of acquiring British nationality in consequence of a request made in accordance with the local law, will also thereupon lose their Turkish nationality.

It is understood that the Government of Cyprus will be entitled to refuse British nationality to inhabitants of the island who, being Turkish nationals, had formerly acquired another nationality without the consent of the Turkish Government.

http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Treaty_of_Lausanne

Not only did Turkey surrender all claims to Cyprus, but Turkish Cypriots abandoned (signed away) Turkishness or left for Turkey altogether!

You need to go back further my friend, before 1923, try 9th July 1878

[DT.]

yes Denied - check your history, Ottomans treated all its subjects with respect.

The empire didn't lose Cyprus. Cyprus was a gift to Britain for its assistance in the war against the Russians.

You’re trying VERY hard to take over the forum clown reigns from Y-Fronts and you’re close to getting my approval…

The 1923 Treaty of Lausanne

ARTICLE 20.
Turkey hereby recognises the annexation of Cyprus proclaimed by the British Government on the sth November, 1914.

ARTICLE 2I .
Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the 5th November, 1914, will acquire British nationality subject to the conditions laid down in the local law, and will thereupon lose their Turkish nationality. They will, however, have the right to opt for Turkish nationality within two years from the coming into force of the present Treaty, provided that they leave Cyprus within twelve months after having so opted.

Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the coming into force of the present Treaty who, at that date, have acquired or are in process of acquiring British nationality in consequence of a request made in accordance with the local law, will also thereupon lose their Turkish nationality.

It is understood that the Government of Cyprus will be entitled to refuse British nationality to inhabitants of the island who, being Turkish nationals, had formerly acquired another nationality without the consent of the Turkish Government.

http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Treaty_of_Lausanne

Not only did Turkey surrender all claims to Cyprus, but Turkish Cypriots abandoned (signed away) Turkishness or left for Turkey altogether!

You need to go back further my friend, before 1923, try 9th July 1878

WHat does it matter? Should I look at the territory the 3rd Reich controlled at the start of the 2nd world war also?

The final agreement between Turkey and Britain over Cyprus was an annexation by Britain of Cyprus.

The fact that GR added the clause which the British imposed on the Turkish subjects basically saying "Give up your turkish identity or f***off the island" is just GR's way of rubbing it in further

[YFred]

Since I started this thread the following is to be assumed as correct.

1. The GCs initiated the armed struggle, fought and succeeded in kicking the Brits out of the island. 2 military bases remain,unfinished business.
2. The TCs never fired a single shot against the Occupiers but did shoot at the GCs who wanted freedom (enosis not a majority end game)
3. The TCs wanted the partition of the island all along (even if they would remain under occupation).
4. The TCs chose continuous slavery instead of freedom.
5. We will never know if the TCs were asked by the GCs to join the fight...were they?

The TCs claim minority weakness and fear they would be wiped out by the GCs so they called for Turkey's help. Nothing wrong with that. Joining the fight against the occupier would make more sense. Instead, they became freeloaders, expecting others to take care of business. Now they want to join the EU after all the legwork was done by the GCs. Freeloading again.
It's working for them. Turk politicians were and still are better than the Greeks.

Georgios100

Interesting method of investigation and assumed conclusions. Is this something you learned in Canada or was it genetically inherited.

YFred,

I left Cyprus right after the war of 1974. Lived most of my life in Canada. I can see things with a different perspective... more realistic I might say. I learned to admit mistakes and not afraid to say so.

Your comments are ambiguous at times. Can you be more specific? Which one of the items above is incorrect? Why is it incorrect? Say what you have to say clearly and to the point. I am willing to listen. I am open to a fresh opinion, always. This is how things get done. Don't beat around the bush, come out clean and spell it out.

Georgios100

Just a few inaccuracies. There is 3 TCs killed by the Brits buried in Lurucina fighting the Brits in 58.
Eoka's policy was that all GC communists and TCs should keep out of fighting because its aims was not independence but enosis. And the kind of conclusion you come to, .......what the hell why do I bother.
GR get stuffed.
Where's Kickapoo gone?

Kickapoo Kickapoo Where are you?
Waiting for your answer on eoakapoo.

Reh Freddie, you've got it wrong.

As others have posted, the EOKA movement was, for most, a Popular Uprising for Liberation. Now the "leadership" may well have had their own dreams of enosis, but suspect you'll find enosis had as much support back in the '50s as it does today, which is from not much to bugger all.

10,000s of CYs were involved in the Liberation Campaign, in one way or another. The Campaign was universally supported by a discrete supply network that connected every village throughout the Island, ferrying food, supplies and communications. Regretfully what we hear about today are the killings and the Enosis Association.

If you ask the older generation what they were struggling for, they'll tell you what they tell me ...... Liberation from GB.

... and can also tell you that the relis I have spoken to on this subject, over the years, are/were all CY Communists, and not natural allies of the Fascist Enosists.

So please explain to me why people marching in the street were shouting Eoka - Enosis. This was not leadership. It was grass roots or should have I said vegetables. There is a certain amount of revisionism going on here by our insincere GC cousins to dress up a murdering bunch of bastrad wolves in sheep's clothing and it aint gon a wash.
Eoka were murderers and hell bent on enosis.
The more you guys try to sell anything else the more you push Moderate TCs away. Don't say you have not been warned.
What the hell was Muhtar X doing visiting Eoka memebers before the talks. Continue saying they do not influence and the TCs will give you their answers quite soon. It will be not to dissimilar to Malapapa's avatar.

[Get Real!]

So please explain to me why people marching in the street were shouting Eoka - Enosis.

I thought Kikapu explained... it was your dad's dick going knock-knock on your head.

The more you guys try to sell anything else the more you push Moderate TCs away.

If uneducated TMT clowns like you and Bir are the “moderates” I piss on you both all the way to Ankara!

[YFred]

So please explain to me why people marching in the street were shouting Eoka - Enosis.

I thought Kikapu explained... it was your dad's dick going knock-knock on your head.

The more you guys try to sell anything else the more you push Moderate TCs away.

If uneducated TMT clowns like you and Bir are the “moderates” I piss on you both all the way to Ankara!

You two headed revisionist.
Why were the grass roots shouting EOKA - Enosis in the streets?