Cyprus-Forum.com

[elko]

We all heard about the Orams case but do you know the fine details? Let me sum up it for you:
1. This case was originally filed in Nicosia on the dark side. It was served to Linda Orams at her home in Lapta in Greek (this is normal). Mr. Orams was away in England at the time. Normally Orams should have filed a "Memorandum of Appearence" within ten days. This is an official form filled in and submitted to court to let the court know that the defendant is going to defend the case either in person or through an advocate.

2. The critical tenth day fell on a Friday. Bearing in mind that the papers were in Greek and Linda's husband was away in England, it was so easy to miss the ten day deadline.

3. On Monday (the 13th day) Linda's Turkish Cypriot Advocate submitted the Memorandum of Appearence in English which was not accepted because only Greek and Turkish are the official languages of the so called ROC. So the Advıocate asked for the official form in Turkish from the court which was not readily available and was told to come back tomorrow. In the meantime, the advocate for Apostolides applied to court on Monday to "Prove" his case i.e. to be given a date to come to court with the Plaintiff and repeat what is written on the claim. The court gave them next day i.e Tuesday (14th day) to prove the case. Normally, the judge uses his/her discretion and gives a date about a month away and also orders the court to inform the defendants of the date when the case is of serious consequencies like tresspass. This is the normal proceedure in normal countries and in normal courts but in this instance, the Plaintiff was given the next day to prove his case. The court must have been in a very big hurry.

4. The advocate for Linda returned to court on Tuesday right at the opening time but the registrar did not manage to find the forms and was told to come bact about 10-11 a.m. He did so, was given the forms in Turkish, filled it in properly but he was told that the judge had already finished the case, sorry, too late.

5. Linda's advocate applied to have the judgement "set aside" but normally in order to be allowed to do that you have to show that you have a bona fide case for defence. They were viled when they talked about TRNC title deeds and other matters and were not given a chance. Hence their application to "set aside" was rejected. They applied to the Supreme Court and they met with the same attitude. In the circumstances, there is no doubt that the courts on the dark side well qualify for the description of "Kangaroo Court" when they behave like this.

The other point is that European Court of Justice has the final say in the interpretation of EU Law. They decided that the judgement of the so called ROC courts must be enforcable in all EU countries even though the judgement is something to do for land beyond their effective control. What most people don't know and some Greek Cypriots try to mislead people is this: ECJ is not a court of appeal and has no power to dismiss or amend the judgement of a court of a member country. Hence it does not mean that ECJ or the Court of Appeal in UK really approved the decision of the ROC or that they found it to be just. They did nothing of the sort and they are not an appeal court for the courts of ROC.

Once the Supreme Court of ROC rejected Orams appeal, Orams could go to ECHR as far as their human rights have been contravened and indeed they have done so. Of course that takes years to have it finalized and as I said they will only deal with the Human Rights side of the issue i.e. whether they were given sufficient chance to defend themselves properly or not. So this is the gist of the matter.

Coming back to Mr. Apostolides, if he wants his land back or compensation, he must apply to the Compensation Board set up in TRNC which was set up with the encouragement of ECHR. Otherwise, he can have the judgement framed and hanged on the wall as an alternative to having his land back!!!
ismet

[paliometoxo]

yes the british are moved out but the trnc said no we are nto giving it back or going to demolish it the uk rules dont apply here.. way to digg the grave deeper and make more trouble for turks.. in the turkish invaded rape "state" in the north of cyprus

[Peterc]

We all heard about the Orams case but do you know the fine details? Let me sum up it for you:
1. This case was originally filed in Nicosia on the dark side. It was served to Linda Orams at her home in Lapta in Greek (this is normal). Mr. Orams was away in England at the time. Normally Orams should have filed a "Memorandum of Appearence" within ten days. This is an official form filled in and submitted to court to let the court know that the defendant is going to defend the case either in person or through an advocate.

2. The critical tenth day fell on a Friday. Bearing in mind that the papers were in Greek and Linda's husband was away in England, it was so easy to miss the ten day deadline.

3. On Monday (the 13th day) Linda's Turkish Cypriot Advocate submitted the Memorandum of Appearence in English which was not accepted because only Greek and Turkish are the official languages of the so called ROC. So the Advıocate asked for the official form in Turkish from the court which was not readily available and was told to come back tomorrow. In the meantime, the advocate for Apostolides applied to court on Monday to "Prove" his case i.e. to be given a date to come to court with the Plaintiff and repeat what is written on the claim. The court gave them next day i.e Tuesday (14th day) to prove the case. Normally, the judge uses his/her discretion and gives a date about a month away and also orders the court to inform the defendants of the date when the case is of serious consequencies like tresspass. This is the normal proceedure in normal countries and in normal courts but in this instance, the Plaintiff was given the next day to prove his case. The court must have been in a very big hurry.

4. The advocate for Linda returned to court on Tuesday right at the opening time but the registrar did not manage to find the forms and was told to come bact about 10-11 a.m. He did so, was given the forms in Turkish, filled it in properly but he was told that the judge had already finished the case, sorry, too late.

5. Linda's advocate applied to have the judgement "set aside" but normally in order to be allowed to do that you have to show that you have a bona fide case for defence. They were viled when they talked about TRNC title deeds and other matters and were not given a chance. Hence their application to "set aside" was rejected. They applied to the Supreme Court and they met with the same attitude. In the circumstances, there is no doubt that the courts on the dark side well qualify for the description of "Kangaroo Court" when they behave like this.

The other point is that European Court of Justice has the final say in the interpretation of EU Law. They decided that the judgement of the so called ROC courts must be enforcable in all EU countries even though the judgement is something to do for land beyond their effective control. What most people don't know and some Greek Cypriots try to mislead people is this: ECJ is not a court of appeal and has no power to dismiss or amend the judgement of a court of a member country. Hence it does not mean that ECJ or the Court of Appeal in UK really approved the decision of the ROC or that they found it to be just. They did nothing of the sort and they are not an appeal court for the courts of ROC.

Once the Supreme Court of ROC rejected Orams appeal, Orams could go to ECHR as far as their human rights have been contravened and indeed they have done so. Of course that takes years to have it finalized and as I said they will only deal with the Human Rights side of the issue i.e. whether they were given sufficient chance to defend themselves properly or not. So this is the gist of the matter.

Coming back to Mr. Apostolides, if he wants his land back or compensation, he must apply to the Compensation Board set up in TRNC which was set up with the encouragement of ECHR. Otherwise, he can have the judgement framed and hanged on the wall as an alternative to having his land back!!!
ismet

ARE THESE FACTS? If so, show me please.

[Oracle]

Excuses, excuses, excuses ...

[vaughanwilliams]

Elko,

Very interesting and concise.
You said, referring to the ECHR:
"i.e. whether they were given sufficient chance to defend themselves properly or not...."
What would be the consequence of them being found NOT to have been given sufficient chance?

[pretty-as-pink]

sorry but as the story goes in the uk its all one big scam on the turks and cypriots behalf

[B25]

Elko2,

you would do well to stick to your C44 shithole, you may then get the cheapskates to applaud you.

You write such utter crap and all the while the ECJ and the Royal High Courts in the UK are also in this kangaroo business are they??

What a moron.

Hade asirktir.

[pretty-as-pink]

Blair, wife of the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has become involved in the controversial issue of British ownership of North Cyprus Property.

Linda and David Orams paid around ?160,000 for a detached house in Lapta in 2003. A Citizen of the Greek Republic of Cyprus, Mr Meletis Apostolides, claims that he is the rightful owner of the land on which the villa is built.

When Cyprus was partitioned into North and South, then Greek Cypriots residing in the North fled to the South, and Turkish Cypriots residing in the South moved north. Property, land and possessions were abandoned by the fleeing refugees. Since 1974, both the Turkish Cypriot administration in the North and the Greek Cypriot administration in the South have devised policies as to how this property and land should be used. The North Cyprus administration has issued TRNC title deeds in relation to previously occupied and owned Greek land. The authorities in South Cyprus have been more circumspect on this matter.

In October 2005, the South Nicosia District Court registered the adverse judgement against the Orams with the British High Court in London. This was based on an EU agreement whereby convicted criminals in one EU state could not evade justice by fleeing to another EU country. As the Greek Republic of Cyprus joined the EU in 2004, they are able to resort to this arrangement between EU states. Mrs Orams appealed against the registration.

The case was heard in London at the end of July 2006.A director of Wellington Estates Ltd was in court to listen to the proceedings.

Ms Cherie Booth, also known as Blair, represented the Orams. Ms Booth reminded the court that when the republic of Cyprus joined the EU, it signed and accepted Article 1 Protocol 10, which states - We (the Greek Republic of Cyprus) have no effective control over the North - Considering Article 1 and the fact that the case is still at appeal stage, the UK and other EU states cannot interfere in the affairs of Northern Cyprus, she said. Referring to the difficulties Article 1 presented, she said, -If you dont have effective control over the North how can you implement laws ?

This is a powerful argument, as the Greek Cypriot administration, by its own admission, has no effective power to enforce a ruling made by a Greek court in Nicosia on a property in Lapta, which is some 25 miles away. Indeed, since the attempt to serve a writ on Mrs Orams the TRNC authorities have made it clear that any repeat of this exercise will lead to the arrest of those persons attempting to serve an unauthorised writ.

Viewed from this perspective, the Greek Cypriot effort to register a Greek Republic of Cyprus court judgement in London lacks logic and could be considered mischievous. If a Greek court cannot enforce a judgement on a property some 25 miles away, how can a UK court be expected to fare better ?

However, there is a hidden agenda in this matter. The Greek complainant is aware that the Orams have a house in Brighton, in addition to the disputed property in Lapta. Should the complainant be successful in registering the Greek courts judgement in London, and should Mrs Orams fail to comply with the demolition order in a reasonable period of time, then the next stage of litigation will be an application for the UK court to seize Mrs Orams assets in the UK.

Mr Justice Jack has stated that he is unlikely to make a ruling on the case before September 2006.

hidden agenda?
mischievious?

[Get Real!]

We all heard about the Orams case but do you know the fine details? Let me sum up it for you:

Tough titties… now shut up and take it like a man!

Coming back to Mr. Apostolides, if he wants his land back or compensation, he must apply to the Compensation Board set up in TRNC which was set up with the encouragement of ECHR. Otherwise, he can have the judgement framed and hanged on the wall as an alternative to having his land back!!!
ismet

As far as Cyprus and the Cypriots are concerned, it is MISSION ACCOMPLISHED because:

1. The piglets have been financially ruined beyond recognition, and if their assets aren’t enough to cover their debts their pensions will do just fine!

2. The illegal GC property industry that had flourished in the illegal “TRNC” under the guise of “exchange” has been decimated!

You should be ashamed of yourselves! The bottom line is that most of the Ottoman remnants like yourself, are a disgusting criminal lot who have no place in the EU or Cyprus!

Btw, there are MORE cases coming so fasten your seatbelts…

[Get Real!]

Mr Justice Jack has stated that he is unlikely to make a ruling on the case before September 2006.

hidden agenda?
mischievious?

Do you know what year it is and which planet you're on?