Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz3]

GR. The article was originally published in the GC Cyprus Mail and yes the only place I have been able to find it since is in TRNC archives. It seems like it wasn't very popular in the South! But surely the real question is whether it has been proved to be true or untrue. The rest of your post is just obfuscation.

For info the article is available on the cyprus-mails website here

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/just- ... e-they-are

[Get Real!]

He can then put his finger where it belongs.

I hope you’re not implying anything to do with your arse Y-Fronts, because your posts alone disgust me let alone your private areas!

[Get Real!]

I guess I was being pretty un-REAL-istic to expect a rational exchange on this. And clearly it's you who sets the rules about how it "works" on this board. I flagged up an article written by GC, published in a GC paper, reporting protests and conversations with GC's in Polemidia but I now have to prove that what this journalist said was based on fact. That he didn't just make it up for the fun of it . . despite the "risks" he took in publishing such a controversial article (I have to say I'm a bit surprised that there hasn't been a response to this article from other "more respected" journalists at the time.)
But your response (I assume) is that it just didn't happen unless I can prove it.

I’ve given you credible links to back the RoC efforts towards TC properties, and also of RoC expropriation law/s that every country has. You on the other hand gave us a “Loucas” dud onto which you want to base your allegation and simultaneously IGNORE the well-established disgraceful TC behavior towards GC properties!

Come back when you’ve matured…

[erolz3]

I’ve given you credible links to back the RoC efforts towards TC properties, and also of RoC expropriation law/s that every country has. You on the other hand gave us a “Loucas” dud onto which you want to base your allegation and simultaneously IGNORE the well-established disgraceful TC behavior towards GC properties!

Come back when you’ve matured…

Here is another article for you GR

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/features/lose-lose-situation

The whisper in legal circles is that the guardianship law contains more holes than a bloc of Swiss cheese, while any scrutiny of its implementation will open up a can of worms and a host of claims for damages.

Don't like whisper as well as “Loucas” ? How about Human rights lawyer Achilleas Demetriades ?

The case signifies the need to have an in-depth re-evaluation of the Guardian of Turkish Cypriot properties and the issue of maladministration. How is the Guardian looking after the property? Has there been proper administration of that property with the collection of rent? Who is going to pay the bill of Turkish Cypriot properties for the loss of use claims by Turkish Cypriots?”

Former Attorney-general Alecos Markides perhaps ?

Markides goes on to explain that the 1991 law on the Guardian of Turkish Cypriot properties is inadequate.

“For example, in Polemidhia, we had 70 families who had settled, built on and invested in land belonging to Turkish Cypriots. The state acquired the land, and I think they did the right thing in that case.

“People must realise that property rights are not absolute rights. All rights can be restricted or taken away on certain conditions"

Former government spokesman Michalis Papapetrou take your fancy ?

I think that the worst way to deal with this is through court decisions. This whole structure regarding Guardianship will collapse, if not in our courts here then at the ECHR.

Now please do not get me wrong. I am in no way offering the above as justification for how property has been treated in the North by the TRNC. What I am 'suggesting' however is that how property has been treated in the South post 74 has some serioous and fundamental failing of it's own and the idea that there are no issues with the treatment of property in the South post 74 is not a realistic one, according to credible GC far beyong just 'Loucas', as the above article shows.

[Sotos]

You are the ones who wanted partition and you are the ones who stole our land. What happened was a result of your own crimes. Do you now admit that partition and ethnic cleansing was wrong? You should give us our land back, serve some years in jail to pay for your crimes, and then when when are released you can have your own land back. We really don't want your properties. We want ours.

[Get Real!]

I’ve given you credible links to back the RoC efforts towards TC properties, and also of RoC expropriation law/s that every country has. You on the other hand gave us a “Loucas” dud onto which you want to base your allegation and simultaneously IGNORE the well-established disgraceful TC behavior towards GC properties!

Come back when you’ve matured…

Here is another article for you GR

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/features/lose-lose-situation

The whisper in legal circles is that the guardianship law contains more holes than a bloc of Swiss cheese, while any scrutiny of its implementation will open up a can of worms and a host of claims for damages.

Don't like whisper as well as “Loucas” ? How about Human rights lawyer Achilleas Demetriades ?

The case signifies the need to have an in-depth re-evaluation of the Guardian of Turkish Cypriot properties and the issue of maladministration. How is the Guardian looking after the property? Has there been proper administration of that property with the collection of rent? Who is going to pay the bill of Turkish Cypriot properties for the loss of use claims by Turkish Cypriots?”

Former Attorney-general Alecos Markides perhaps ?

Markides goes on to explain that the 1991 law on the Guardian of Turkish Cypriot properties is inadequate.

“For example, in Polemidhia, we had 70 families who had settled, built on and invested in land belonging to Turkish Cypriots. The state acquired the land, and I think they did the right thing in that case.

“People must realise that property rights are not absolute rights. All rights can be restricted or taken away on certain conditions"

Former government spokesman Michalis Papapetrou take your fancy ?

I think that the worst way to deal with this is through court decisions. This whole structure regarding Guardianship will collapse, if not in our courts here then at the ECHR.

Now please do not get me wrong. I am in no way offering the above as justification for how property has been treated in the North by the TRNC. What I am 'suggesting' however is that how property has been treated in the South post 74 has some serioous and fundamental failing of it's own and the idea that there are no issues with the treatment of property in the South post 74 is not a realistic one, according to credible GC far beyong just 'Loucas', as the above article shows.

Erol, the RoC property guardianship system (which actually acknowledges TC property ownerships) is a HUGE step in the right direction compared to the Turkish Cypriot attitude of “Nah! It’s all ours!” wouldn’t you say?

If you’re a TC you’ve got a very good chance of getting your land/property back by…

1. Following the prescribed RoC procedure.
2. Failing that, complaining to the ECHR.

Now, if you’re a GC what exactly is the procedure for acquiring one’s occupied property?

Please explain in detail!

[erolz3]

Erol, the RoC property guardianship system (which actually acknowledges TC property ownerships) is a HUGE step in the right direction compared to the Turkish Cypriot attitude of “Nah! It’s all ours!” wouldn’t you say?

THe theory of it if not the practise, yes.
I do also think however to fairly understand how and why each side treated property post 74 you have to look at the diferences in terms as to how much 'disputed property' there was on each side post 74 in realtion to community size as well as the political motivations of each side.

If you’re a TC you’ve got a very good chance of getting your land/property back by…

1. Following the prescribed RoC procedure.
2. Failing that, complaining to the ECHR.

You have and the more glaring obstacles are indeed being slowly removed by test cases and so forth.

Now, if you’re a GC what exactly is the procedure for acquiring one’s occupied property?

Please explain in detail!

Pretty much the same as above

1. Follow the prescribed procedure in the north - goto the IPC
2. Failing that goto the ECHR.

I do also feel it is necessaary to look at why for many TC the desire return of and especially too pre 74 property is not have the same as it is for many GC. It is not because we love our land any less.

[umit07]

I do also feel it is necessary to look at why for many TC the desire return of and especially too pre 74 property is not have the same as it is for many GC. It is not because we love our land any less.

Hi there Erolz, do you remember me? It's not too hard to understand why most TC's don't want to go back. The main reason would be that many TC's received a lot more in return for their original property in the south. Whilst many GC's hit rock bottom and received limited help from their government. Another aspect I see evident in older folk especially, is that they still have a feeling that they need to flock together, if they were to return. The traumas of life in the early 60's still haunts some people today.

[erolz3]

Hi there Erolz, do you remember me?

Indeed, at least the umit part if not the 07

It's not too hard to understand why most TC's don't want to go back. The main reason would be that many TC's received a lot more in return for their original property in the south.

Whilst I certainly accept that this plays a part I am not sure I would agree with you that it is the single main reason.

Whilst many GC's hit rock bottom and received limited help from their government.

I think to some degree RoC governments post 74 have sought to 'limit' the amount of help they have given vs what they could have to maintain as impetus for 'return'. Like refusing to alow those GC with property in the North who willingly would like to sell it from being able to easily do so and the discouragment for them to goto the IPC in the north. These to me seem to politicaly motivated decisions not based on easing the suffering of GC refugees (internaly displaced people) but based on ensuring there is as little ersion as possible in both the need and desire amongst GC refugees for return.

Another aspect I see evident in older folk especially, is that they still have a feeling that they need to flock together, if they were to return. The traumas of life in the early 60's still haunts some people today.

I think at the simplest level for TC, rightly or wrongly, the events of 74 represented the 'end' of their communal suffering and struggle and for GC it represented the 'start' of theirs. So inevitably there is very different attitudes to 'return' which for GC represents return of what was taken from them by force in 74 but for TC much more return to how things were before 74. For me this is the single and main reason why return means such different things for GC and TC.

[vaughanwilliams]

This is fantastic. The bad language and the irrational insults is a clear sign of frustration and helplessness of most Greek Cypriots. I put forward clear facts and what do I get in return? Just insults and bad language. Grow up men, otherwise you will be in a worse situation in the years ahead.

I understand that Greece cheated the books when entering the Eurozone. Is anyone surprised at that? I don't think so. Of course their close cousins, the lunies here are no better off. Thanks to Greece, the Eurozone may collapse and not much after that the EU. The writing is on the wall.
Somebody asked about proof of what I wrote in the original message. Simply ask any Greek Cypriot Advocate in Nicosia and I am sure they will confirm what I wrote.

By the way, I understand that some expats would like to sell their villas in TRNC on the cheap. Well, I have very bad news for you. Many Turkish nationals from Anatolia are planning to buy their second summer house in TRNC and they are looking for bargains. In ten years time the population of TRNC may exceed that on the dark side. One day you may have to discuss the Cyprus Problem with Turks from Anatolia. Banish the thought
ismet

"One day you may have to discuss the Cyprus Problem with Turks from Anatolia."

When that day comes, you GCs will wish you had settled with the TCs a long time ago.