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Looking for an Explanation

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:03 am

Kifeas
Your spastic laughing and irony prove only one thing! The complete lack of any valid arguments on your behalf!


thank you for your kind comments, but why should I continue to bash my head against a brick wall?? you are not going to belive any arguement I put forward and you have no remorse towards or understanding of TCs you will just counter argue until your fingers are knumb from typing, your blinkered vision and constant I am superior than thou just doesnt cut ice with me, I think we agreed in another thread not to respond to each others posts which we should try and stick to as we cannot agree on anything and appear to be wasting each others time, we are 2 typical examples of the Cyprus issue unsolvable and in stale mate situation.
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Postby Kifeas » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:32 am

Viewpoint wrote:Kifeas
Your spastic laughing and irony prove only one thing! The complete lack of any valid arguments on your behalf!


thank you for your kind comments, but why should I continue to bash my head against a brick wall?? you are not going to belive any arguement I put forward and you have no remorse towards or understanding of TCs you will just counter argue until your fingers are knumb from typing, your blinkered vision and constant I am superior than thou just doesnt cut ice with me, I think we agreed in another thread not to respond to each others posts which we should try and stick to as we cannot agree on anything and appear to be wasting each others time, we are 2 typical examples of the Cyprus issue unsolvable and in stale mate situation.


No Viewpoint! You continue to do a mistake! I have a great deal of remorse and an abundance of will for understanding of the TC community's genuine needs and desires. It just your (and your leadership’s) artificial needs and desires that I have no appetite of seeing satisfied! And those things that you listed as a source of mistrust from the part of the TCs, are all such artificial needs and /or desires aiming at only one thing, the acknowledgement from our behalf of your separate entity status! You just cover it under a "causes of mistrust" veil!
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Postby Filitsa » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:08 am

MicAtCyp wrote:OK, ok forget it, after all it seems there is no cure for "one line" posts and there is no way for someone to go back and fix the discussions. I thought I might point some things to you, but it seems I get an oposition party rising up.
Sorry Filitsa, I did not notice you were a new member, and perhaps I should forget about that post especially when the rest of your posts are fine and constructive. Welcome to the forum.


Apology accepted, MicAtCyp, though not necessary and thank you for the welcome and to you too, gabaston, for your kind words. I'm chuckling because there's a certain irony in my being criticized for a one-liner that lies in what I do for a living. Anyway, you can be sure that I will expound my thoughts in the future.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:20 am

Kifeas
No Viewpoint! You continue to do a mistake! I have a great deal of remorse and an abundance of will for understanding of the TC community's genuine needs and desires. It just your (and your leadership’s) artificial needs and desires that I have no appetite of seeing satisfied! And those things that you listed as a source of mistrust from the part of the TCs, are all such artificial needs and /or desires aiming at only one thing, the acknowledgement from our behalf of your separate entity status! You just cover it under a "causes of mistrust" veil!


I thought you were no longer go to respond to my posts?? so seeing you have I think it only right that I respond to yours...
Kifeas its obvious from the demeaning tone in your posts that you do not know TCs very well, you dismiss anything put forward that you cannot accept into your narrow vision and feel that these issues are not of any importance. The one issue that I raise time and time again and is of paramount importance to me,which I feel is the key towards any type of a solution you ridicule and demolish likes its just in the mind fo TCs and we should get over it and not be addressed. I think this is where you make the big mistake this is an issue that needs to be satisfied before you can get to the point you obviously are aiming for as TCs do not trust GCs however much you feel we intermingle and socialise these are very superficial and the test is when you ask TCs whether they want to live in a mixed Cyprus, they all stop some are polite and say sure but dont really mean it some are not to sure but deep down dont feel comfortable and those that are outspoken say noway....this mistrust is fuelled by yourselves by your actions and things you say surely you must be aware of this. I gave you a list off the top of my head of issues that fuel mistrust you demolished it and said some pretty nasty things, this does not help reduce the mistrust between us, you have to learn to absorb what we are saying and not just bulldoze your way past our ideas and concerns and force your own ideas like the 1960s, your mindset is very close to those that caused the division we have today.
I to accept I can be stubborn (I am a Turkish Cypriot after all) but I feel I have learnt a lot from this forum and I feel I am more flexible in my approach open to ideas but unfortunately this forum also proves how far apart we are mentally and how we will never be able to meet on common ground which saddens and disappoints me.
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Postby Kifeas » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:14 pm

Viewpoint,
I have asked to you tell me some moves by the GC side which would have helped improve the trust of the ordinary TCs towards the GCs. You came up with a list of items (issues) that have nothing to do with trust, at least in relation to the ordinary TC, but only in relation to the political aspirations of their leadership and TC elite.

If you had come up with some suggestions such as the following:
Make more use of the Turkish language in the official documentation, public buildings, etc. Translate all the legislation and publish the official gazette in Turkish too. Begin hiring more TCs in the civil service, especially in areas relating to TC affairs but also in other places, even in diplomatic missions abroad. Adopt a national anthem other than that of Greece, one that will incorporate the multicultural aspect of Cyprus. Reduce the number of Greek flags flying around and enhance the appearance of the Cypriot flags. Increase the number of hours of TV and radio broadcasting and hire more TCs in the public radio/TV. Improve the Green line regulation and give incentives to GC businessmen and companies to co-operate more with TCs counterparts. Give incentives to other types of business in other sectors of the economy, in order to hire more TCs, such as banks, media, telecommunications, tourism, etc. Introduce the teaching of the Turkish language in all public schools and even hire TC teachers and professors. Give some financial aid to poor TC families, especially in relation to their education and health needs and offer some scholarships for studies abroad. Encourage more co-operations of professional bodies with more meetings and seminars in order for an exchange of knowledge and experiences to occur. Go as far as to hire some TCs in the judicial system of the republic, etc.

If you had come with all or some of the above, I would say “YES” I agree with you 101%. And I would say it is a shame the RoC doesn’t do more or even all of them, irrespective of any additional financial burden that these measures might have on the budget.

All these would have helped the ordinary TCs to view the GC community as people who view them as their true compatriots, who have all the good intentions towards them, who value their input as a community and as individuals and who are trying to treat and regard them as their citizens to the, as much as possible, same extend as themselves, etc.

Instead, you came up with the direct trade issue, which in the way you want it to be implemented will equate with an indirect recognition of the “TRNC,” which in it’s turn and you should have known this, is an issue affecting the very foundation of the GC side’s political thesis. You are asking us something, which for 31 years we were fighting not to let it happen and the fact that it did not happen is the only reason that kept the Turkish and TC leadership on the negotiating table for so long.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:47 pm

Kifeas the steps you mention to build trust is are secondery matters, those quoted by me were high impact, we are a proud people we do not want charity and tokens from the "RoC" which is not ours we do not feel we blong to "RoC" they do not respresent us, this is degrading and could backfire, if your arguement held water then the workers that come accross should be a source for building trust yet do you know how the average TCs evaluates that issue, they get us to do their dirty work and pay us peanuts, we are just cheap labour like the Pakistanis and Sri Lankens....that is not buiding any trust just hate and contempt.....

The factors you mention are related to the "RoC" acting in full accordence with the 1960 agreements but that idea was abandoned in 1963 and buried for us the course of event s has brought us to partition...

My lists includes issues which would help Tcs work hard for themselves and build up the economy in the north so if a solution is reached we are not a burden on the south as was drummed home to us in the lead up to the referendum, how else do you expect us to progress, tourism is an area where the north can excel if we have direct flights and are not constantly obstructed by the "RoC" at every turn then it would not take to long for us to reach the economic levels of the south. But this hinderence and constant objection to anything that would allow to progress fuels mistrust in TCs and a hardening of views occurs, which is that GCs want to hold us economic hostages so they can extract as many comcessions as possible at the negotiating table, do you think this is a good way to build trust??? so the steps you mention eg getting rid of Greeks flags although I accept has positive moves are cosmetic and will not build the trust we desire.
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Postby Filitsa » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:49 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Filitsa
Did it bring the right to Turkish settlers to covet those sweets as well?


If those sweets are in my possession I can share them with who i like, until you forcible stop me or gain my trust to only share them with you, which to date you have been unable to do.

I understand your concerns, the majority of TCs would hand back your property rights tomorrow where feasibly possible, if they had the power but this of course can only come with a comprehensive solution.



I believe, for all intents and purposes, the "sweets" were controlled by Ankara, and by Ankara were distributed not only among TC's but thousands of Turkish settlers. How do you justify this in light of an intervention to keep peace and a sovereign TRNC. For me, this is the piece of the puzzle that doesn't fit.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:34 pm

Filitsa dont forget we did try to resolve matters after 1974 to no avail we could not produce an argreement acceptable to both sides, which is pretty much where we are today. In the meantime life continues and we found we could share our sweets with someone who would look out for us and support us financially that being big brother or as some would call her Mama Turkey....
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Postby Filitsa » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:03 pm

Viewpoint, as you, I'd like to think that you are in control of the "sweets," but I don't believe this for a moment. Additionally, like you, I'd like to think of that which is being controlled to be likened to sweets, but unfortunately they are more like staples. If one compares the standards of living in the RoC and Turkey to that of the occupied North, one will conclude where the real sweets lay ... and unfortunately their not in the hands of the TC's, who, in my view, are the biggest victims of this whole debacle.
Last edited by Filitsa on Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby erolz » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:08 pm

Filitsa wrote:Erolz, as you,


Er I think you mean viewpoint and not me (erolz) ?
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