Cyprus-Forum.com

[gabaston]

kifeas

Now in the case of Turkey, they seem not to have too many such glorious events in their history as a nation. Therefore, in the absence of such more important events against much bigger and stronger opponents, as it is the case of Greece, they choose to celebrate the invasion against Cyprus in 1974.

if you know the history of, as you say "turkeys glorious historical events as a repulic", not as ottomans, you'd know that is a nonse. if you want i can let you know of them.


even as ottomans they took on more advanced Eastern European nations, the arabs and russians. So please think it through. Could the ottomans possibly have outnumbered all of those? And arent the europeans supposed to the educated cultured ones. So outnumbered the ottomans ruled more educated and cullturally supperior nations.


How was that allowed to ever happen?

[Filitsa]

vp

filitsa

hence, niether do i get yours.

not being nasty here, just dont get what is being said. i've had a bad day.

Sorry you've had a bad day, gabaston. My reply to you contained no hidden agenda. Simply, I was thanking you for your response to my question. I don't mean to slight anyone else as I appreciate all the replies and can understand all perspectives, but I found yours to be particularly well-reasoned and sensible.

filitsa i think viewpoint is saying that the present situation is peace. Are you agreeing with him?

Peace can mean many things. It can mean; an absence from war. It can mean law and order. It can mean harmony. It can mean serenity. Is there an absence from war in Cyprus? Yes. Is there law and order? There is order, and for the most part law, but some aspects of law are debatable, for example the land issue and the legality of the "TRNC" as a bonafide nation-state. Is there harmony? No. Is there serenity? Yes. Is Cyprus peaceful. No. In order for it to be peaceful, the answer to all these questions must be yes. What I think currently exists in Cyprus is tolerance, tolerance to the extent that the status quo has been allowed for a period of time. I'm wondering, though, is this tolerance good or bad?

I am confused, what day is it?

The first day of the rest of your life. Be confused no more.

[Viewpoint]

Filitsa what if you are unable to have all the elements you mention in you post does that mean there is no peace?? surely this is different from each of our respective perspectives and for me the last 31 years have been peaceful. For GCs property rights are paramount to achieving peace and therefore they are not living a peaceful existence.

[gabaston]

filitsa

welcome to the forum

[Filitsa]

Filitsa what if you are unable to have all the elements you mention in you post does that mean there is no peace?? surely this is different from each of our respective perspectives and for me the last 31 years have been peaceful. For GCs property rights are paramount to achieving peace and therefore they are not living a peaceful existence.

Viewpoint, it pleases me to know that your perspective of your existence in the past 31 years is one of peace. Would that all Cypriots have the same perspective as you. Perspectives, however, are subjective (With a screen name like yours, need I tell you this? ). Here we are not discussing individual perspectives of peace, but rather the peace of Cyprus as a whole. As I stated above, there are aspects of peace in Cyprus, but Cyprus is not a wholly peaceful country.

I assume you are a Cypriot of Turkish ethnicity. I also assume you agree with the contention that one reason for the Turkish intervention was to preserve the civil rights of Turkish Cypriots. Further, I assume that you, like most if not all of us, value the preservation of civil rights. If you know that denying a person the use and enjoyment of his property is a violation of civil rights, and you attribute civil rights to the law and order aspect of the definition of peace, then you should understand one of the reasons why Cyprus cannot be a wholly peaceful country at this time. Perhaps it is naive or unrealistic to think that Cyprus will ever be wholly peaceful, but is it naive and unrealistic to believe that some of her issues can be resolved in an effort to, at least, move closer to that ideal?

[Filitsa]

filitsa

welcome to the forum

Thank you, gabaston. (Why do I feel like I just passed a test?)

[Viewpoint]

Filitsa

If you know that denying a person the use and enjoyment of his property is a violation of civil rights, and you attribute civil rights to the law and order aspect of the definition of peace, then you should understand one of the reasons why Cyprus cannot be a wholly peaceful country at this time

Surely the violation of your civil rights which relates mainly to property was instigated by the many errors we made pre 1974, while having the opportunity to live together as Cypriots and cultivating mutual harmony and economic development we chose to pursue other agendas which lead us to where we are today. Its like starting a fight knowing thinking you can crush the opponent only to find that he has kicked your butt and taken some of your/our sweets. All you can do is cry and say but you stole those sweets they are mine not yours according to the law, but not recalling that you were meant to share those sweets in peace and mutual understanding. For many TCs 1974 brought the right to have our share of the sweets (albeit a few extra for all the years we were unable to eat sweets becasue the candy jar was controlled by yourselves) without any threat of being beaten up.
My friend Trust is the key word if we cannot build trust between our communites so that we may resolve issues which imo are resolvable, if only one of the sides would back down a little and take the initiative to compromise a little more at the begining then im sure there are enough sweets for all Cypriots to enjoy but due to the current political climate I cannot see this happening and therefore we are gradually moving more and more towards recognized partition.

[Filitsa]

For many TCs 1974 brought the right to have our share of the sweets (albeit a few extra for all the years we were unable to eat sweets becasue the candy jar was controlled by yourselves) without any threat of being beaten up.

Did it bring the right to Turkish settlers to covet those sweets as well?

[Viewpoint]

Filitsa

Did it bring the right to Turkish settlers to covet those sweets as well?

If those sweets are in my possession I can share them with who i like, until you forcible stop me or gain my trust to only share them with you, which to date you have been unable to do.

I understand your concerns, the majority of TCs would hand back your property rights tomorrow where feasibly possible, if they had the power but this of course can only come with a comprehensive solution.

[Kifeas]

Surely the violation of your civil rights which relates mainly to property was instigated by the many errors we made pre 1974, while having the opportunity to live together as Cypriots and cultivating mutual harmony and economic development we chose to pursue other agendas which lead us to where we are today.

First of all it is not a violation of civil rights that occurred and continues to occur, but it is a violation of human rights. And human rights are paramount to any civil and / or political rights, according to the UN chart and the Council of Europe relevant conventions.

You are saying "we" and by that I suppose you mean both GCs and TCs. Setting aside what the other agendas that the GCs had chosen to pursue, can you explain us what other agendas the TCs have pursued?

For many TCs 1974 brought the right to have our share of the sweets (albeit a few extra for all the years we were unable to eat sweets becasue the candy jar was controlled by yourselves) without any threat of being beaten up.

Setting aside the fact that you are dramatising the conditions in which the TCs were in the pre-1974 period, especially between 1968-1974 in which they had the opportunity to move freely around Cyprus, get jobs, do businesses and utilise their properties; you did not just get a few extra candies but way more candies than your fair share. You left behind you in the south 414 thousand donums of land, half of which was hillside, dry, rocky and un-irrigable land, and you got 1,457 thousand donums of prime and fertile GC land in the north. Nearly 4 times more than you left in the south.