Cyprus-Forum.com

[gabaston]

filitsa

sory i spelt you name wrong, ill go n correct it after this post.

everyone is welcome here, we have hardliners on both sides, we have neutrals also, we have moderates, and youngsters wishing to learn about the cyprob.

of course everyone's input is welcome and helps us all get a persective on opposing views.

you too are welcome whatever your views and intensions are. It would be nice if you could tell the forum just a little bit about yourself, your backround maybe, and your intrest in the cyprob. of course you dont have to and i respect your right not to do so.

i just find it odd that having read the book GF, you ask why we celebrate our liberation from the pre 74 political system.

[Filitsa]

Fair enough. I was not born or raised in Cyprus, but I have relatives there, and we exchange visits. I'm not a youngster either. In fact, I was a young teen when the invasions occurred. I grew up with one side of the story until I cared enough to learn about the other side, and I've been learning ever since, sometimes posing questions whose intentions are misinterpreted; nevertheless, they are sincere. In the learning process, I've found that there are more than 2 sides to the story. This confounds me. The only conclusion I've made so far is that the more I learn the more I question. Consequently, I waffle back and forth over the loosely held federation concept versus two independent states.

With regard to The Genocide Files, every author has his agenda, and every reader has his perspective from prior knowledge regardless of how extensive or limited that knowledge may be. When one reads, he applies, affirms, or questions his prior knowledge based upon what he reads, and he does the same with the information he is reading.

[insan]

Can any TC of this forum confirm the wages of gardeners from Turkey are 1200 YTL or 400 Cyprus pounds like VP has said? Insan can you verify?

I have no idea re Mic... The gardeners are not government employes who get certain wages. The money they earn depends on the work they do I think. You ask them to do something for you and they ask you to give them the money they want for that work.

[MicAtCyp]

but I have a house cleaner once a week as well.

I never had any doubts about that!

my GC friends pay 350 CYP per month for their maid and 2 trips home each year

Ask them again! Your figures are wrong. And the return air ticket is one every end of contract i.e every 2 years not 2 tickets per year...

metecyp they make between 1000 and 1200YTL per month depending on how many days a week they work, the going rate is 50YTL per day which is approx 17CYP per day in your money.

My dear, are you talking for occasional work on an hourly basis, on a daily basis, or on a monthly basis? Make up your mind... There are people who can charge you upto 1000 pounds an hour, this doesn’t mean they work 8 hours a day, 22 days a month, and make 176,000 a month!

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I have no idea re Mic... The gardeners are not government employes who get certain wages. The money they earn depends on the work they do I think. You ask them to do something for you and they ask you to give them the money they want for that work.

Give us the salary of a Government employee then with equal qualifications and education as that of a gardener! Or the nearest Government employee salary.

[Viewpoint]

MicAtCyp your reading and not absorbing again, I think I was pretty clear by saying 50YTL per day(eg daily rate)if he works 22 days per month then he will earn 22x50 = 1100 YTL per month, if he works more days then he will earn more, get it now

Viewpoint

metecyp they make between 1000 and 1200YTL per month depending on how many days a week they work, the going rate is 50YTL per day which is approx 17CYP per day in your money.

and your answer was
MicAtCyp

My dear, are you talking for occasional work on an hourly basis, on a daily basis, or on a monthly basis? Make up your mind... There are people who can charge you upto 1000 pounds an hour, this doesn’t mean they work 8 hours a day, 22 days a month, and make 176,000 a month!

Can you understand why I dispair at your responses and scarcastic inuendos....will you ever refrain from doing this:shock:

EDITED for reason 1,2
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus1566.html

[gabaston]

Filitsa

To get down to the bare facts

GC see Cyprus as theirs coz they have been there thousands of years.
TC sees Cyprus as part theirs, since they’ve been there hundreds of years, some even thousands due to conversion during ottoman times.
Greece wanted it as part of a mini Greek domain, this has since been dropped.
Turkey saw it with claims as part of an old treaty with Britain, this too been dropped.
Britain and USA see it as bases……….both Tc and GC can live with that……… ongoing.

It boiled down to democracy, (which means GC rule) against Tc self rule.

We have a situation now of GC self rule and Tc self rule. Final hurdle to overcome = land.

Every thing that happened since 1950 can be attributed to one of the above aims. There is no innocent party. There is now little point in apportioning blame; we were all guilty of having played our parts.

Britain, USA, Greece and Turkey (despite the troops) are now out of the frame regarding sovereignty.

It’s simply a matter of land now, if we find that solution then bingo.

[Filitsa]

It's really not that simple though, gabaston, as evidenced by the article in the following link.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=21009&cat_id=1

This is what I mean when I question who really controls the TC "sweets." Assuming the land issue gets resolved, how long will Turkish intervention continue thereafter?

[gabaston]

Filitsa

i do think it is as simple as that.



Assuming a resolution, my belief is that turkish intervention will be in line with Greece's. However due to the fact that turkey is only 40 miles away there will probably be greater interest in investment, with more comings and goings between tc and turkey. Additionally and with gc approval, there may also be substantial trading links between Turkey and GC.

Any turkish troops on the island will be dependant on any agreement pertaining to any resolution. It wont be like tc live by Turkish law, they will have their own laws, and elected authority. If tc have high trade with turkey that will be their prerogative

I have read the article on Cypriot-Egyption oil exploration, and wonder on what grounds turkey objects. There are a few that come to mind, these are speculative and in my opinion probably a political counter threat to cyprus’s veto over Turkey’s eu bid. Turkey and Greece have for decades now been quarrelling similar in the Aegean, but nothing more than that.

As for control of the sweets. Turkey or whoever else who invests in tc will be have their rights to any due profits. Tc will not be a state of Turkey, just like gc is not a state of Greece. Tc may look to turkey, for protection, and may offer Turkey favours in return for such.

As for the Cypriot Egyptian exploration, in light of the tc embargoes, does the author seriously believe that the profits from this venture will end up in tc’s pockets? If so then he has missed a crucial element in all of this which is tc is fed up of being fed on the crumbs which fall off gc’s table.
With this in mind it may be understandable why perhaps it may be preferable to share sweeties, rather than wait for crumbs.

[Filitsa]

All sounds reasonable, gabaston, except:

Any turkish troops on the island will be dependant on any agreement pertaining to any resolution.

Why should troops remain beyond the time necessary to assist TC's in getting their own military off the ground?

I have read the article on Cypriot-Egyption oil exploration, and wonder on what grounds turkey objects. There are a few that come to mind, these are speculative and in my opinion probably a political counter threat to cyprus’s veto over Turkey’s eu bid. Turkey and Greece have for decades now been quarrelling similar in the Aegean, but nothing more than that.

One that comes to my mind is that Turkey wants "a piece of the pie."

[gabaston]

Why should troops remain beyond the time necessary to assist TC's in getting their own military off the ground?

i totally agree but in the event tc should not have the defence capability to protect itself?

Piece of pie now huh, from sweeties to crumbs to pie.

Nah…. turkey cant get any of that pie, its some diplomatic tit for tat, bargaining ploy.
Maybe some-one who understands the diplomatic language can answer that one.
If you come across JustAnAmerican ask him about it. He's fluent in diplomat.