Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Well, I am reluctantly back, spurred on by the responses in this thread. .

And I for one am profoundly glad you have returned. Whilst intellectualy I know these forum are not representative there is no doubt in my mind that the constant arguments I have with posters like Piratis and some others create an subconcious feeling that there can be no 'peace and unity' with GC given this attitude that I feel from such encounters. The balance that your posts give are a much needed antidote to this phenomenon for me and I thank you for this. You personaly help keep alive in me the beleif that we can create a unifed and harmonious Cyprus. I believe you and people like you (on both sides) are our future and best hope for the future. I commend you comittment.

[Viewpoint]

Bananiot glad to see you back and I agree with erolz that your contribution amongst all the negativity and arrogant viewpoints of certain members brings understanding like a breath of fresh air, look forward to your posts.

[erolz]

I would just like to add that these two simple sincere admissions of fact (as far as I am concerned) are the most important thing to me as far acheiveing a settlement.

I believe the GC side shoulders more of the blame

and

Of course, one should remember that it all started when we decided unilaterally to pursue our enosis dream, almost the day after we put our signature on the London-Zurich agreements. Makarios and most GC leaders at the time saw the agreements just as a stepping stone to achieve enosis. We never believed in the RoC. Now, we cry our hearts out for the TC's to come back to it.

Not because such an admission means that TC can demand more - in fact exactly the opposite. With these two simple statements of fact my trust in GC increases and my need for 'protections' dimishes. Contrast that wih being told that it ws TC that caused the collapse of the republic , that it was TC and T that was the main cause of so many TC fleeing their homes, that what happened in the 60's is irrelevant in the face of what the ottomans did in Cyprus, that it was the persuit of partition by TC and not Enosis by GC that led to the troubles, that only a handful of TC were killed and they were all TMT terrorist that deserved it, that it was just a minority of GC extremists without support or power that did 'bad things', that TC have no rights to self determiantion at all as a people or a community, that TC are only concerned in achieving partition, that TC are simply theives motivated by gaining what is not theirs etc etc etc. In the face of such arguments my level of trust in GC and beleif that the disasters of the past will not be allowed to happen again diminishes and thus my need for real and strong protections for the TC community increases. If these simple truths that bananiot states were stated sincerely by the GC leadership then my need for protection of TC by T, my need for bizonality (never that strong personaly), my need for effective protection from a GC numerical majority re discriminatory legislation and many other contentoius issues decreases.

[Viewpoint]

But erolz as you well know and constantly read other forum members comments that Bananiot is very rare his approach and understanding he has been shunned and sometimes ridiculed by other GC members for being on the other side and doing more harm that good to their national cause. He is very rare and a minority which will never come to the fore against the likes of GCs like Kifeas MicAtCyp Main_Source Piratis Rafaella...

[MicAtCyp]

Gabaston you have to tell me where exactly that check point was and which year. I already said the check-points were at the entrance of enclaves. Now either you are lying or me. I repeat there was no single check-point in roads connecting towns or villages between 1963-74 except at the entrance of enclaves that you yourselves have created.I repeat that although you could at least pass a checkpoint to get out of your enclaves no GC could ever pass the checpoint to get in your enclaves! Heres a repeatition of what faruk said:

and between 1963 and 1974 TC were afraid of going some place if the pass point under control of GC police and every pass point

*********************************

do you make things up as you go along??? propaganda at its best...

So with this so constructive and so well documented one liner of yours, you are just calling me a propagandist or what? Tell me what I said in my previous post is not true.

[Bananiot]

Thank you erolz for your kind words and Viewpoint, there are many people who think like me, but usually their voice is not allowed to surface because of the labels. Regarding the check points, I remember an old Turkish Cypriot woman telling me a couple of years ago that everytime she left Nicosia to visit her village in Paphos in the 60's, the car would be stopped several times and all the women were subjected to dignity-killing (that is how she described it) body search. The women, in other words, were touched up by male policemen who then boasted about this. Those were the times when confidence in the two communities was distroyed and alas, my community is much to blame. From the GC point of view I would say that by our actions we drove the Turkish Cypriots to the arm of Turkey. For this I do not blame them, anyone would do the same.

[Viewpoint]

Bananiot

I remember an old Turkish Cypriot woman telling me a couple of years ago that everytime she left Nicosia to visit her village in Paphos in the 60's, the car would be stopped several times and all the women were subjected to dignity-killing (that is how she described it) body search. The women, in other words, were touched up by male policemen who then boasted about this.

Its just one of these check points I mentioned in one of my post i remember as a child my mother being subjected to the same type of body search which was both degrading and very frightening, a GC forum member (he knows who he is) called me a liar, still dont understand why he did that,
guilt maybe???

[MicAtCyp]

It was obvious that all TCs were against Enosis and if Turkey hadn't intervened, all TCs would resist against the Enosists. . . Guess, then what would have happened? Yes, total annihilation of TC community.

Of course this is the usual argument of the TCs and their certain prediction of a future that never occured. . . .

Last night I watched a documentary, in which Sampson was asked the same question, i. e if the coup succedded whether his next step would be to anihilate the TCs. He objected fiercefully.
He said than in his first public proclamation he even addressed the TCs saying:
This is a problem between the Greeks, not between the Greeks and the Turks. The bicommunal talks will continue on an intensive basis until we find a peaceful solution.
Well I can verify the above statement was in fact true.
Then the reporter pushed him further telling him "you mean you removed Makarios just for nothing? Didn’t you remove him to achieve Enosis? How would you achieve Enosis without the consent of the TCs? " Sampson replied stressing his proclamation again: We would intensify the talks to find a peaceful solution the soonest possible.

The fact that Sampson stressed so much the "peaceful" part, left me with the impression he was actually ready to agree double Enosis. Too bad the reporter did not ask him this question directly. . . .

Anyway Sampson is dead today, his staying in power never happened, so I guess we will never find out.

I said in the past that both the coup and the Invasion and the hundreds of incidents of the mainland Greek Military officers in Cyprus who actually let Turkey Invade, plus the fact they had maps knowing exactly which areas the Turks would take, (Morfou and Famagusta were not in) leaves me no doubt everything was pre - agreed between CIA, the Greek Generals (not the Colonels of Junta) , and Turkey. And the aim was for double Enosis.

Insan in the past you gave the timeline of the Invasion and the discussions between the Greek Colonels, regarding a possible strike against Turkey. I remember very well what the Generals said, and what Ioannides words were: "you betrayed me"
Everything makes sense to me now, the scope was for double Enosis. And it were the Generals who agreed on that not the Colonels of the Junta.

[MicAtCyp]

I would just like to add that these two simple sincere admissions of fact (as far as I am concerned) are the most important thing to me as far acheiveing a settlement

And where are the two simple sincere admissions from your side Erol that are the most important for achieving a settlement.Bananiot was very clear that he will speak for his own side and he cannot speak for the other side, but he was also clear that there are responsibilities from your side too.
So what you said thereafter for me worths nothing!

[insan]

This is a problem between the Greeks, not between the Greeks and the Turks. The bicommunal talks will continue on an intensive basis until we find a peaceful solution.

What did you expect him to say? The truth? Everything is expected from a psychopat Turkish eater who devoted his whole life to make Cyprus a Hellene island.

Keep trying to conceal the facts and the guilt of Hellenic extreme right wing and keep putting all the blame on Turkish army and extreme Turkish right wing.

Self-satisfaction and some kind of self-amusement.

Güneş balçıkla sıvanamaz.

Do you still continue having Turkish lessons re brother Mic?