Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

I would like to add that we need tc/gc and turk confessions of the truth to put our many demons to bed once and for all, what is being described above are an atrocious events that occured and we the cypriots should now understand and appreciate that no one suffered more or less we all suffered and the only amends we can make is to unify our island and live togethar in harmony and peace so all the lives that were lost were not in vain.

and I would add that such admissions (of our 'own' sides wrongdoings) are also the most genuine expression of goodwill and desire for true reconcillations, just as continued denials and excusing of our on sides attrocites are the reverse - for me at least.

[faruk]

An interview with Mustafa Organ, a Turkish soldier serving in the 48th Ankara/Tsoumbouk artilery brigade at the time of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, was published on 28th January 1998 in the Frankfurt-based newspaper "Osgur Politica"

Organ refered to the barbaric massacre of about 100 Greek Cypriot civilians who had fled to the small village of Merich (Mora), near Nicosia.

"Those killed at the exit of the village were women, children and pensioners who were running for their lives" he said. "The little streets and the exit areas were full of civilian pensioners and small children who were trying to get away. These people were killed in the most vicious way and some of the bodies were cut to pieces. The bodies were lying in the scorching heat for a week. Later officers told us we had to hide the bodies. I drove a bulldozer. Others dug a large and wide ditch and burried them. Soldier Sefket Avcioglu from Maras was also a witness to the event".

Organ refered also to prisoners being killed and robbed and Greek and Turkish Cypriot women and girls being raped by the Turkish officers and soldiers. "I cannot forget a tall dark officer from Adana who raped a 13 year old Greek Cypriot girl, and the rape of two Turkish Cypriot girls near the Nicosia industrial zone" he said.

that were made by Greeks To TC what was wrirtten above and between 1963 and 1974 TC were afraid of going some place if the pass point under control of GC police and every pass point was under control of GC police. and also it should have been very hard to use violence without weapon and TC had not enough weapon even for defending theirselves. as oppopse to this all institutions were occupied by GC. Also Greeks had National Greek Defence Military and The army from Greece and EOKA too. this facts can puts forward that which side made torture, raping, murder. and all world witnessed to "bloody noel" that a mother and her children killded in the bathroom. you can see it in the museum of barbarism that is the creation of EOKA and its supporters

[MicAtCyp]

We are talking about this murder of hundreds of people here. My point is why come and post what Turks did when GC's and Greeks did exactly the same, if not worse. What is the point, you'll go round in circles forever.

Hundreds??? The total number in all 4 villages was 183. All killings of TCs (69 people from Tohni+ 15 brought from Ziyi and Mari=84 + some small numbers from other places to a total of 183) happened on 14 of August 1974!! I am surprised you don't know what happened that day! Does the second Attila date ring a bell?
Now compare that to the 6000 of GC dead....

Anyway for me the death of each and every human person is death and shame for all humanity....

[MicAtCyp]

were afraid of going some place if the pass point under control of GC police and every pass point was under control of GC police.

Pass points??? Is this what they teach you in your museum of Barbarism? Do you know that there was not a sinlge pass point anywhere in Cyprus other than the ones your TMT created at the entrance of YOUR enclaves? TCs living in mixed villages, and non ghetoed TC villages never had to pass through any "pass point" even if they had to travel for a whole week all around Cyprus.... I personally never entered any enclave so I never passed through any "pass point".

I beleive answering only this point is enough for the moment.As for the rest of the nonsense you wrote, well slowly slowly, some other time maybe...

NB.Like I told you in another thread : "Get a better education, Denktash’s primary school aint good."

[Viewpoint]

MicAtCyp

Pass points??? Is this what they teach you in your museum of Barbarism? Do you know that there was not a sinlge pass point anywhere in Cyprus other than the ones your TMT created at the entrance of YOUR enclaves? TCs living in mixed villages, and non ghetoed TC villages never had to pass through any "pass point" even if they had to travel for a whole week all around Cyprus.... I personally never entered any enclave so I never passed through any "pass point".

do you make things up as you go along??? propaganda at its best...

[gabaston]

MaC


If pass points are like road blocks, then sorry mate but you are wrong. I have sat in road block queues for hours, not one hour but hours, in the heat, not allowed out of the car, whilst gc's were just waved through. One in particular was leaving nicosia for larnaca.

[faruk]

they do not teach in the museum of barbarism, but you teach something in the museum of barbarism like how can an innocent mother and her children be slaughtered by Greeks with cold blood

also you should know that many TCs had taken and killed by GC polices when they left their enclaves in order to move another one. that enclaves were being defended by TMT in order to prevent an attack realized by EOKA


and are you from Demokritos University of Thrace which is Promoting Prejudice and Racism?? i think you must learn something from Denktash because he is a University that you can learn every truth about Cyprus question emerged because of Greeks... and one more thing, in TRNC they do not teach about racism as oppose to your side...let me advice something "get better education for example from Denktash"

is it enough for you this time please ask me slowly slowly later

were afraid of going some place if the pass point under control of GC police and every pass point was under control of GC police.

Pass points??? Is this what they teach you in your museum of Barbarism? Do you know that there was not a sinlge pass point anywhere in Cyprus other than the ones your TMT created at the entrance of YOUR enclaves? TCs living in mixed villages, and non ghetoed TC villages never had to pass through any "pass point" even if they had to travel for a whole week all around Cyprus.... I personally never entered any enclave so I never passed through any "pass point".

I beleive answering only this point is enough for the moment.As for the rest of the nonsense you wrote, well slowly slowly, some other time maybe...

NB.Like I told you in another thread : "Get a better education, Denktash’s primary school aint good."

[insan]

Well... what would have happened if Turkey had not intervened and majority of TCs went armed struggle against coupists, 12.000 Eldik troops and 20.000 National Guard? Would any of them have been alive?

It was obvious that all TCs were against Enosis and if Turkey hadn't intervened, all TCs would resist against the Enosists... Guess, then what would have happened? Yes, total annihilation of TC community.

[Kifeas]

Well... what would have happened if Turkey had not intervened and majority of TCs went armed struggle against coupists, 12.000 Eldik troops and 20.000 National Guard? Would any of them have been alive?

It was obvious that all TCs were against Enosis and if Turkey hadn't intervened, all TCs would resist against the Enosists... Guess, then what would have happened? Yes, total annihilation of TC community.

Insan! I do not really care to comment on the rest of what you said because they all fall in the sphere of imagination. Only on the issue of troops I would like to correct you. The Eldik contingent in Cyprus before and during the coup and the invasion was only about 900 soldiers and the GC national Guard only about 12,000, out of which about 500 were officers from mainland Greece.

There was such a high number of mainland Greek troops in Cyprus during the period 1965-1967 when PM George Papandreou send secretly in Cyprus a Greek brigade of about 8-10 thousand soldiers. These troops were withdrawn completely in 1967 after the events of Kofinou.

PS: If there was such a high number of troops as you suggested above, the Turkish Army would have never been able to land in Cyprus, set aside to occupy any territories.

[Bananiot]

We need to be totally impartial and honest when trying to view critically the past regarding the atrocities committed by each community against the other. Otherwise the excercise has no meaning. I get very upset and angry when reading that the atrocities committed by the GC's were the responsibility of a bunch of fools, ie EOKA B' members. At the same time, shamelesly, some people declare that the atrocities committed against the GC's were the work of Turks! This is totally unacceptable and people that make such arguments can only be labelled as racists and anti Cypriot in general. Such statements do nothing to build bridges for the two communities. They merely fuel the partition flames which are now raging out of control, in front of our doorsteps.

I can only speak for my community and in so doing it does not mean that I excuse the atrocities committed by the TC side. Its sad that I even need to make this distinction but in this forum there are so many members ready to make wild accusations of the most uncharecteristic type. Anyway, I do not really care much, even when people point out that I represent Denktash or even Ecevit. This is because I strongly believe that the real interests of Cyprus call for clear and transparent arguments where people are free to speak their mind without the bigots calling "traitor". This has been our curse from the past and I will simply ignore their cries.

The reason why I am letting you know these thoughts is because I thought seriously to stop writing and I did so for a couple of weeks. It occured to me that this effort is futile and that all it achieves is to make enemies or better adversaries for no reason whatsoever. On top, precious time is wasted again, it seems, for no reason (my wife's argument) while we not only make no impact on the Cyprob but create more animosity among us.

Well, I am reluctantly back, spurred on by the responses in this thread. Moving on from what I mentioned in the first paragraph, I would like to put to you that while all atrocities committed are of course condemned (again, I hate myself for having to clarify this) I believe the GC side shoulders more of the blame. This is because there is no excuse for state organs, such as the police or the national guard, or even state sponsored "Organisations" to embark in the killing of innocent people. It is wrong to believe that killings were done only by EOKA B' people. Murders were committed well before EOKA B' came to the fore. Some may argue that officially the government was not behind the killings. I have my serious doubts. In fact, not a single person was persecuted for engaging in such activities. In fact, no case was ever opened, meaning that the government had no will to investicate the murders. Take for example the three boys from Aredhiou. The local police arrested them one night in the early 60's and no one has seen them since.

Of course, one should remember that it all started when we decided unilaterally to pursue our enosis dream, almost the day after we put our signature on the London-Zurich agreements. Makarios and most GC leaders at the time saw the agreements just as a stepping stone to achieve enosis. We never believed in the RoC. Now, we cry our hearts out for the TC's to come back to it. We are not even being funny ...