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Advantage - Negotiated Partition!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:19 pm

boulio wrote:firstly again im greek not cypriot secondly if you read the papers they have articles daily on the issue.


These are not accurate, they are playing the guessing game no one knows for real whats being agreed.
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Postby boulio » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:26 pm

15 of 17 subchapters of the governance chapter agreed:


Ο Δημήτρης Χριστόφιας παρουσίασε την Παρασκευή στο Εθνικό Συμβούλιο τα βασικά σημεία συγκλίσεων στη διακυβέρνηση, χωρίς όμως να αναφέρει ότι έχουν ήδη γραφτεί κοινά συμφωνημένα κείμενα για 15 από τα 17 υποκεφάλαια του συνταγματικού. Ούτως ή άλλως, τα μικρά και τα μεσαία κόμματα θεωρούν επουσιώδεις αυτές τις συγκλίσεις από τη στιγμή που διαφωνούν με την εκ περιτροπής προεδρία. Η εικόνα, πάντως, μεταξύ των όσων μετέχουν στη διαπραγμάτευση είναι εντελώς διαφορετική. Όλοι οι εμπλεκόμενοι χαρακτηρίζουν σημαντικότατες τις συγκλίσεις που κωδικοποιούνται ως εξής:
*Συμφωνία ότι πρόεδρος και αντιπρόεδρος θα εκλέγονται απευθείας από τους πολίτες με ισχυρή στάθμιση της ε/κ ψήφου
*Συμφωνία για εκ περιτροπής προεδρία με αναλογία 4:2 (τέσσερα χρόνια Ε/Κ Πρόεδρος και 2 Τ/Κ)
*Η τ/κ πλευρά προτείνει αναλογία 7:5 για τη συμμετοχή στο υπουργικό και η ε/κ πλευρά 9:5. Το θέμα αναμένεται να κλείσει στο 8:5
*Συμφωνία για αναλογία συμμετοχής 50:50 στην 'Ανω Βουλή και 75:25 στην Κάτω Βουλή. Εδώ πάντως, οι Τ/Κ επιμένουν να υπάρχει ειδική συμμετοχή Τ/Κ στη λήψη των αποφάσεων της Κάτω Βουλής, κάτι που δεν γίνεται δεκτό από τον κ. Χριστόφια
*Σημαντικές συγκλίσεις έχουν επιτευχθεί και στις αρμοδιότητες της κεντρικής κυβέρνησης, οι οποίες έχουν πλέον διπλασιαστεί σε σχέση με τις αρχικές τ/κ προτάσεις. Το θέμα μένει ανοικτό, αφού οι Τ/Κ δεν αποδέχονται να έχει η κεντρική κυβέρνηση την αρμοδιότητα της εξωτερικής πολιτικής. Κάτι που αναμένεται να αλλάξει, αφού κανείς δεν στηρίζει την τουρκική πλευρά σε αυτή την αξίωση.
*Δεν υπάρχουν βέτο προέδρου- αντιπροέδρου στην Κυβέρνηση, αλλά απαιτούνται δύο ψήφοι υπουργών του κάθε κρατιδίου για να ληφθούν αποφάσεις.
*Συμφωνία για το Δίκαιο της Θάλασσας, όπου ο κ. Ταλάτ αποδέχεται τη σχετική διεθνή συνθήκη του 1982. Αυτό σημαίνει ότι ο έλεγχος των χωρικών υδάτων, της Αποκλειστικής Οικονομικής Ζώνης και της υφαλοκρηπίδας θα ασκείται από την ομοσπονδιακή κυβέρνηση. Οι μεσαίοι και οι μικροί στο Εθνικό αμφισβήτησαν το κατά πόσο θα δεχθεί αυτή τη συμφωνία και η Τουρκία.
*Εκφράζεται βεβαιότητα ότι σε μία ή το πολύ δύο συναντήσεις των συμβούλων θα κλείσει και το θέμα του από πού πηγάζει η κυριαρχία του κράτους. Οι πλευρές είναι πολύ κοντά στην εξεύρεση αποδεκτής διατύπωσης.
*Συμφωνία ότι το FIR είναι ομοσπονδιακή αρμοδιότητα. Οι Τ/Κ επιμένουν, όμως, ότι θα πρέπει να υπάρχουν δύο κέντρα ελέγχου πτήσεων, κάτι που προβληματίζει την ε/κ πλευρά. Δεν θεωρείται, όμως, ζήτημα που θα χαλάσει μια τελική συμφωνία.
Μεγάλο «αγκάθι» στη διακυβέρνηση παραμένουν οι εξωτερικές σχέσεις και η απαίτηση της τ/κ πλευράς να μπορούν τα κρατίδια να συνάπτουν διεθνείς συμφωνίες σε όλους τους τομείς των αρμοδιοτήτων τους. Τα Ηνωμένα Έθνη και η ε/κ πλευρά πιστεύουν ότι στο πάρε-δώσε οι Τ/Κ και η Τουρκία θα δεχθούν την πρόταση για υπογραφή διεθνών συμφωνιών μόνο στο εμπόριο και τον πολιτισμό. Συναφή με τις εξωτερικές σχέσεις είναι και το «κατάλοιπο εξουσίας». Οι Τ/Κ δεν δέχονται σε αυτό το στάδιο να οριστούν ακριβώς και να καταγραφούν οι αρμοδιότητες των κρατιδίων. Επιπλέον, στις εντατικές δεν συζητήθηκαν οι «παλιές πράξεις» του ψευδοκράτους, ενώ για αργότερα πηγαίνει η απαίτηση της Τουρκίας να απολαμβάνουν ισότιμα Τούρκοι και Έλληνες πολίτες τις 4 βασικές ελευθερίες (κυρίως το δικαίωμα εγκατάστασης) στην Κύπρο μετά τη λύση.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:30 pm

All Greek to me.
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Postby boulio » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:31 pm

go translate it :!:
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:36 pm

boulio wrote:go translate it :!:


cop out
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Postby apc2010 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:39 pm

as an outsider and reading the posts on here there will never be a solution.Too many years gone by and too many uninformed views , how many people posting here were around in 63/64..... not me ..not many more from 74... way too much hostility for no sensible reason
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Postby boulio » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:42 pm

delete
Last edited by boulio on Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby boulio » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:42 pm

Greek to English translationShow romanization
Dimitris Christofias presented Friday at the National Council of the key points of convergence in governance, but states that have already been written on commonly agreed text for 15 of the 17 subsections of the constitution. After all, small and medium-sized parties consider these minor convergence once disagree with the rotating presidency. The picture, however, among those involved in the deal is completely different. All relevant features of the major convergences encoded as follows:
* Agreement that President and Vice President be elected directly by citizens with a strong weighting to the greek Cypriot vote
* Agreement on a rotating chair at a ratio of 4:2 (four years of G / C President and 2 T / C)
* The T / C ratio of 7:5 aspect proposed for participation in the cabinet and with the Cypriot side 9:5. The issue is expected to be close to 8:5
* Agreement on ratio of 50:50 in the Upper House and Lower House in 75:25. Here, however, the T / C insist on a specific involvement of T / C in the decisions of the Lower House, which is denied by Mr Christofias
* Significant convergence has been achieved and the responsibilities of central government, which have now doubled compared with the initial T / C proposals. The question remains open, since the T / C not to accept the central government the responsibility for foreign policy. Something should be changed because no one supports the Turkish side to this requirement.
* There are no vice-president vetoes the government, but requires two votes of each Land ministers to take decisions.
* Agreement on the Law of the Sea, where Mr Talat accept the international treaty of 1982. This means that the control of territorial waters, the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf shall be exercised by the federal government. The medium and small at the National contest whether to accept this agreement and Turkey.
* Expressed confidence that one or maximum two meetings of advisers will be closed and the question of which stems from the dominance of the state. The sides are very close to finding an acceptable wording.
* Agreement that the FIR is a federal responsibility. The T / C persist, however, that there should be two flight control centers, which are concerned with the Cypriot side. There is, however, fails to issue a final agreement.
Large "thorn" in governance remain external relations and the requirement of T / C side to allow the states to conclude international agreements in all areas of their powers. The United Nations and with the Cypriot side believe in give and take the T / C and Turkey will accept the proposal for signing international agreements only to trade and culture. Related to external relations is the "residual power". The T / C does not accept at this stage to define precisely and to list the responsibilities of states. In addition, intensive not discussed the "old history" of pseudo, and later goes to the requirement of Turkey enjoy equal Turkish citizens of Greece and the 4 fundamental freedoms (including freedom of establishment) in Cyprus after a solution.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:48 pm

boulio wrote:Greek to English translationShow romanization
Dimitris Christofias presented Friday at the National Council of the key points of convergence in governance, but states that have already been written on commonly agreed text for 15 of the 17 subsections of the constitution. After all, small and medium-sized parties consider these minor convergence once disagree with the rotating presidency. The picture, however, among those involved in the deal is completely different. All relevant features of the major convergences encoded as follows:
* Agreement that President and Vice President be elected directly by citizens with a strong weighting to the Cypriot vote
* Agreement on a rotating chair at a ratio of 4:2 (four years of G / C President and 2 T / C)
* The T / C ratio of 7:5 aspect proposed for participation in the cabinet and with the Cypriot side 9:5. The issue is expected to be close to 8:5
* Agreement on ratio of 50:50 in the Upper House and Lower House in 75:25. Here, however, the T / C insist on a specific involvement of T / C in the decisions of the Lower House, which is denied by Mr Christofias
* Significant convergence has been achieved and the responsibilities of central government, which have now doubled compared with the initial T / C proposals. The question remains open, since the T / C not to accept the central government the responsibility for foreign policy. Something should be changed because no one supports the Turkish side to this requirement.
* There are no vice-president vetoes the government, but requires two votes of each Land ministers to take decisions.
* Agreement on the Law of the Sea, where Mr Talat accept the international treaty of 1982. This means that the control of territorial waters, the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf shall be exercised by the federal government. The medium and small at the National contest whether to accept this agreement and Turkey.
* Expressed confidence that one or maximum two meetings of advisers will be closed and the question of which stems from the dominance of the state. The sides are very close to finding an acceptable wording.
* Agreement that the FIR is a federal responsibility. The T / C persist, however, that there should be two flight control centers, which are concerned with the Cypriot side. There is, however, fails to issue a final agreement.
Large "thorn" in governance remain external relations and the requirement of T / C side to allow the states to conclude international agreements in all areas of their powers. The United Nations and with the Cypriot side believe in give and take the T / C and Turkey will accept the proposal for signing international agreements only to trade and culture. Related to external relations is the "residual power". The T / C does not accept at this stage to define precisely and to list the responsibilities of states. In addition, intensive not discussed the "old history" of pseudo, and later goes to the requirement of Turkey enjoy equal Turkish citizens of Greece and the 4 fundamental freedoms (including freedom of establishment) in Cyprus after a solution.


So all in all nothing is agreed.
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Postby boulio » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:50 pm

your hopeless.
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