Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

Here's something about Mr Candounas, the CY solicitor representing Mr A in his trouble with The Trespassing Orams.

He's down on record (and heard him say it personally) as saying that the defeat for the Carpetbaggers was a "victory for all CYs".

Believe he says this as the ECJ/GB Appeal Court have reaffirmed that the only legitimate land ownership is as per the '74 Kochans. Something that applies for all CYs island-wide. The victory by Mr C has also put a stop to the efforts of the Illegal Regime to "sell" off the property of others and benefit from illicit land sales, something that was helping to muddy the issue of property, so the victory helps towards a property settlement for all CYs.

Interestingly Mr Candounas is the chap behind the Tissy Information Centre, near the top end of Ledras, staffed by a couple of tissies at his own expence to help out our more northerly brothers and sisters navigate the RoC bureaucracy to get hold of ID cards, passports and of course ways of getting their lands back etc.

Here's something from the CY Mail back in 2004 by Bahcelli, which may give an insight in to Mr C's motives .........

( http://news.pseka.net/index.php?module= ... 21&print=1 )

"Candounas Information Centre, close to the capital's popular Ledra Street, opened just two weeks ago to help orientate Turkish Cypriots to life in the south.

We help people to find government offices, lawyers, schools, medical services, or whatever they help and assistance they need, says Turkish Cypriot Ercin Fevzi, one of the two full-time staff at the centre.

The Centre is funded completely by Candounas, a lawyer whose law firm is barely five minutes away from the centre. But Candounas insists his motives for establishing the Centre were not purely altruistic.

This is not a philanthropic gesture because philanthropic gestures are done for the benefit of someone else. This is for the benefit of all of us. I believe we benefit from this as well because if they feel comfortable to live with us, then we benefit too."

[repulsewarrior]

...thanks bill, once again a fountain, have i called you doc lately?

we applaud apostalides (sorry if my spelling is wrong) for his courage, the decision he took in my opinion is monumental for people all over the world, as it strengthens beyond national boundries the Principals that are Humanly Universal. Candounas is a man who makes me proud to be a Cypriot, he has Grace, and, as a Greek i find in him an identity to emulate.

To show the world that we believe a change will come, consider if you can social-exchange.

no isolation is natural, cyprus is an island afterall. beyond the issue of property is trespass, on which there is a clear basis to decide. communities, people as Persons were removed, ...in any case some should return; as such ending the denial both Turkish and Greek (the premise on which i base my definition:Bizonal). with a redistribution of land in this manner, it would be possible for us to make as Individuals difficult decisions easier, regarding our ability to freely enjoy the use of our own properties. a State exists to defend this Right without discrimination, this has been reinforced, governance is still to be defined.

yet i believe that Bicommunal is a Unitary State which is Sovereign and Supreme, where, as Majorities components (defined geographically) are assembled to sustain themselves in National Assembly, demonstrating service as a Community, efficient, effective, and economic, providing to all their citizenry a recognition that there are minorities with special needs to serve as well. ...oh my i dogo onnnnnn.

cheers!

[Gasman]

He just comes across as so likeable. Sensible TCs should see the Apostolides victory as a victory for all Cypriots, it seems it is only the ex pat Brits who snapped up the land/property which rightfully belonged to others who cannot see this as a fair victory.

[Tim Drayton]

An article by Turgut Afşaroğlu that first appeared in Afrika on 5 January 2009 [my translation]:

Lord, what a stupid, what a wretched community we are. It is probably impossible to find another community on this globe that fears the law as much as we do. Persistently and stubbornly we move outside international law, and at the same time are afraid.
***
International law says: - An international agreement, for example the 1960 Cyprus Agreements, retains its validity until a new one is concluded in its place. What did we do after 1974? We imagined that the Republic of Cyprus did not exist. Pushing to one side the fact that the guarantors’ sole right was to restore the broken-down Constitutional order, we abandoned our rights in the Republic of Cyprus. Denktash was elected Republic of Cyprus Vice-President in 1973. He had the right to continue in this capacity until 1978. However, no sooner had the TCFS been founded in 1975 than he abandoned this post. It is unclear whom he asked, from whom he obtained authority. If he had remained in this post until the end, he would have been able to veto the Republic of Cyprus’s unilateral EU entry and the Greek Cypriot side would have been unable to accede to the EU on its own.
***
International law says: - According to the Geneva Convention, moving people to a territory that has been taken by armed force, and granting them citizenship, is a crime. What did we do? First, in the name of agricultural labour we moved people from Turkey, then we gave them citizenship and the right to vote. What was the result? Turkish Cypriots have been turned into a minority in their own region and have been deprived of their political will. The elected have become Ankara’s puppets.
***
International law says: - You cannot hand out title deeds as you wish for land or property that has been taken with armed force, as though it belonged to you. What did we do? We issued title deeds not only to Turkish Cypriots coming from the south, but also to Turks coming from the north. At this point, let me remind you: until the 1985 TRNC Constitution was adopted, only Usage Certificates were issued rather than title deeds. This was because we opposition Founding Assembly members at the time saw to it that, in accordance with international law, an article was placed in the 1975 TCFS Constitution: - Regardless of any other provision in this Constitution, immovable property abandoned by Greek Cypriots may not be transferred to any natural or corporate person. This article was removed from the 1985 TRNC Constitution and the mad rush to issue title deeds ensued.
***
First the Loizidou case, then the Aresti and Turkish Bank suits came in quick succession. We have lost all of these suits. You should be in no doubt that the Orams case will also result in our defeat. So what needs to be done? Initially, as Barış Mamalı has said, it is necessary to pay compensation immediately in the Orams case, without awaiting the European Court of Justice judgment and without leaving the English courts to deliberate on the matter. It is then necessary to start similar actions to the Orams case concerning construction without permission on Turkish Cypriot land in South Cyprus. Let me immediately pass on a piece of information: the Greek Cypriot side has not been outdone by us. Construction has taken place on a total of 8357 Turkish Cypriot plots without obtaining permission from the Turkish Cypriot owner. Not only the Orams case, but also suits like the Loizidou, Aresti and Turkish bank suits, create precedents for us. And in these matters we can file countersuits. It is like we said! Turks are afraid of the law.

[Oracle]

More young people like Mr Candounas, please.

btw Good article, Tim.

(Only objection is a mention of "TCs' own region")

Turkish Cypriots have been turned into a minority in their own region and have been deprived of their political will.

[Gasman]

Yes, interesting and thanks for posting that.

I assume by 'their own region' it was meant 'in the North of Cyprus'? TCs were always a minority in their own country - Cyprus.

[Oracle]

TCs were always a minority in their own country - Cyprus.

So what?

The rest of us progressed to being individuals, first and foremost!

[Gasman]

So what?

So what nothing. Just pointing out that they haven't 'been turned into a minority'. They always were.

[bill cobbett]

An article by Turgut Afşaroğlu that first appeared in Afrika on 5 January 2009 [my translation]:

Lord, what a stupid, what a wretched community we are. It is probably impossible to find another community on this globe that fears the law as much as we do. Persistently and stubbornly we move outside international law, and at the same time are afraid.
***
International law says: - An international agreement, for example the 1960 Cyprus Agreements, retains its validity until a new one is concluded in its place. What did we do after 1974? We imagined that the Republic of Cyprus did not exist. Pushing to one side the fact that the guarantors’ sole right was to restore the broken-down Constitutional order, we abandoned our rights in the Republic of Cyprus. Denktash was elected Republic of Cyprus Vice-President in 1973. He had the right to continue in this capacity until 1978. However, no sooner had the TCFS been founded in 1975 than he abandoned this post. It is unclear whom he asked, from whom he obtained authority. If he had remained in this post until the end, he would have been able to veto the Republic of Cyprus’s unilateral EU entry and the Greek Cypriot side would have been unable to accede to the EU on its own.
***
International law says: - According to the Geneva Convention, moving people to a territory that has been taken by armed force, and granting them citizenship, is a crime. What did we do? First, in the name of agricultural labour we moved people from Turkey, then we gave them citizenship and the right to vote. What was the result? Turkish Cypriots have been turned into a minority in their own region and have been deprived of their political will. The elected have become Ankara’s puppets.
***
International law says: - You cannot hand out title deeds as you wish for land or property that has been taken with armed force, as though it belonged to you. What did we do? We issued title deeds not only to Turkish Cypriots coming from the south, but also to Turks coming from the north. At this point, let me remind you: until the 1985 TRNC Constitution was adopted, only Usage Certificates were issued rather than title deeds. This was because we opposition Founding Assembly members at the time saw to it that, in accordance with international law, an article was placed in the 1975 TCFS Constitution: - Regardless of any other provision in this Constitution, immovable property abandoned by Greek Cypriots may not be transferred to any natural or corporate person. This article was removed from the 1985 TRNC Constitution and the mad rush to issue title deeds ensued.
***
First the Loizidou case, then the Aresti and Turkish Bank suits came in quick succession. We have lost all of these suits. You should be in no doubt that the Orams case will also result in our defeat. So what needs to be done? Initially, as Barış Mamalı has said, it is necessary to pay compensation immediately in the Orams case, without awaiting the European Court of Justice judgment and without leaving the English courts to deliberate on the matter. It is then necessary to start similar actions to the Orams case concerning construction without permission on Turkish Cypriot land in South Cyprus. Let me immediately pass on a piece of information: the Greek Cypriot side has not been outdone by us. Construction has taken place on a total of 8357 Turkish Cypriot plots without obtaining permission from the Turkish Cypriot owner. Not only the Orams case, but also suits like the Loizidou, Aresti and Turkish bank suits, create precedents for us. And in these matters we can file countersuits. It is like we said! Turks are afraid of the law.

Yes, thanks for above Tim.

Liked to have seen some more info on the alleged matter of construction on 8357 tissy properties, but leaving that aside.......

Reminds us that "The Law" is seen by some as some sort of sword (perhaps a double-edged one), another weapon for each side to bash the other with, in the traditional CY Way, whereas really suggest we look at The Law as a great leveller for all CYs, in so many aspects of our little misunderstandng. Something that is applied equally and fairly and equitably and justly to all. Think that is how Mr C (if he'll forgive the presumption) would perhaps see it.

[YFred]

An article by Turgut Afşaroğlu that first appeared in Afrika on 5 January 2009 [my translation]:

Lord, what a stupid, what a wretched community we are. It is probably impossible to find another community on this globe that fears the law as much as we do. Persistently and stubbornly we move outside international law, and at the same time are afraid.
***
International law says: - An international agreement, for example the 1960 Cyprus Agreements, retains its validity until a new one is concluded in its place. What did we do after 1974? We imagined that the Republic of Cyprus did not exist. Pushing to one side the fact that the guarantors’ sole right was to restore the broken-down Constitutional order, we abandoned our rights in the Republic of Cyprus. Denktash was elected Republic of Cyprus Vice-President in 1973. He had the right to continue in this capacity until 1978. However, no sooner had the TCFS been founded in 1975 than he abandoned this post. It is unclear whom he asked, from whom he obtained authority. If he had remained in this post until the end, he would have been able to veto the Republic of Cyprus’s unilateral EU entry and the Greek Cypriot side would have been unable to accede to the EU on its own.
***
International law says: - According to the Geneva Convention, moving people to a territory that has been taken by armed force, and granting them citizenship, is a crime. What did we do? First, in the name of agricultural labour we moved people from Turkey, then we gave them citizenship and the right to vote. What was the result? Turkish Cypriots have been turned into a minority in their own region and have been deprived of their political will. The elected have become Ankara’s puppets.
***
International law says: - You cannot hand out title deeds as you wish for land or property that has been taken with armed force, as though it belonged to you. What did we do? We issued title deeds not only to Turkish Cypriots coming from the south, but also to Turks coming from the north. At this point, let me remind you: until the 1985 TRNC Constitution was adopted, only Usage Certificates were issued rather than title deeds. This was because we opposition Founding Assembly members at the time saw to it that, in accordance with international law, an article was placed in the 1975 TCFS Constitution: - Regardless of any other provision in this Constitution, immovable property abandoned by Greek Cypriots may not be transferred to any natural or corporate person. This article was removed from the 1985 TRNC Constitution and the mad rush to issue title deeds ensued.
***
First the Loizidou case, then the Aresti and Turkish Bank suits came in quick succession. We have lost all of these suits. You should be in no doubt that the Orams case will also result in our defeat. So what needs to be done? Initially, as Barış Mamalı has said, it is necessary to pay compensation immediately in the Orams case, without awaiting the European Court of Justice judgment and without leaving the English courts to deliberate on the matter. It is then necessary to start similar actions to the Orams case concerning construction without permission on Turkish Cypriot land in South Cyprus. Let me immediately pass on a piece of information: the Greek Cypriot side has not been outdone by us. Construction has taken place on a total of 8357 Turkish Cypriot plots without obtaining permission from the Turkish Cypriot owner. Not only the Orams case, but also suits like the Loizidou, Aresti and Turkish bank suits, create precedents for us. And in these matters we can file countersuits. It is like we said! Turks are afraid of the law.

Yes, thanks for above Tim.

Liked to have seen some more info on the alleged matter of construction on 8357 tissy properties, but leaving that aside.......

Reminds us that "The Law" is seen by some as some sort of sword (perhaps a double-edged one), another weapon for each side to bash the other with, in the traditional CY Way, whereas really suggest we look at The Law as a great leveller for all CYs, in so many aspects of our little misunderstandng. Something that is applied equally and fairly and equitably and justly to all. Think that is how Mr C (if he'll forgive the presumption) would perhaps see it.

So what happened to the law that was supposed to stop GCs building on TC land. Over 8000 you say, now that is interesting. Of course the south is very law abiding, isn't it boys and other.