Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Sorry to put a dampner on things,but i think it is all very clear now...The AKP government in Turkey will use the Cyprus problem card to make sure Turkey NEVER gets accepted into the EU...The Turkish proposals presented by Talat are clear proof of that... so don't spend too much time agonising over them...And if as expected Eroglu wins the Presidential in April,that will be the ultimate proof..Because under the present demographics Eroglu cannot win,and Talat cannot loose,without Turkey's help...so forget it ,people...The game is over..There will be no solution,the status quo serves Turkish interests and the GC interests equally well,and that is what will remain in place for a long time to come...

Hello Bir, nothing personal and what exchanges we had previously is now water under the bridge for me, however I wanted to ask you a question.

Which would you prefer?

1. A status Quo for the time being

or

2. A bodged 'solution' to apease some with a good possibility of a return to the 60's problems?

I ask, because is seems to me that you wish to constantly blackmail us to accept something real fast even though we do not agree with it just so that you can get what you want. You know as well as anyone else, the demands being made by Turkey and the TCs are totally unacceptable yet you still throw at us the idea 'If you don't accept these then you are F'ed' , at least thats the way I am reading it.

if you were in our shoes, would you accept these terms?? i guess not, so please don't expect us to.

We do want a solution, it is in everyones interest to have a solution, but we demand a fair and just and most of all a WORKABLE solution.

Further, in response to your question in a previous thread, I do acknowledge the suffering of the TCs in those 3 villages you mentioned and any other village. Those that did these terrible things need to be dealt with. I do acknowledge the TC plight (although it is not obvious, but I and we have admitted it enough times), whereas I don't feel that many on your side have.

I do not condone these killings and murders of innocent civilians nor Prisoners of war (look back Bir), and it should offend any decent human being, thats not to say that if the time came I would not take up arms if the need be but we all hope that this will not come to pass.

Over to you.

I am always open to civilised discussion,B25...As long as you do not attempt to read my mind or assume motives I do not have...The alternative to the status quo is not a "bodged solution" as you say..We can have a reasonable solution which will satisfy both sides primary concerns...Sure we need to be creative and compromise,but for that the GCs need to swollow one bitter pill...I know this is not easy,but it is the only way we will move on from where we are...That bitter pill is this: Turkey and the TCs will NEVER accept a solutiion which will remove Turkey from the picture all together...If and when you accept this,I am sure all other problems can be solved more or less to everyone's satisfaction...The status quo I believe is working worse for the TCs who will be totally Turkified within 25 years...But the status quo is also working against the GCs as it will cement Partition along the present borders...Within 25 years there will be at least as many "New TCs" as GCs in Cyprus and no other solution but partition will be feasible or desirable by anyone...So Cyprus will be divided between Turkey and the RoC...If that is alright with you guys,so ahead and make Turkey's day by insisting on democracy and human rights and EU principles and all that...It is music to Turkish ears...We call it "yalelli havasi"...

Agree with what you say except the time scale. It will not happen in 25 years time, more likely 5. If we have 5 more years of GC suffocation of the TCs, 99% of TCs will not even mix with GCs. The hatred will be unmanagable.

I can say less than 5 Fred.

Also Bir conclusions and comments are correct . He can read very clearly TC's and Turkey's mind . Yes rest of it called Arabin Yallelisi ....

[YFred]

Sorry to put a dampner on things,but i think it is all very clear now...The AKP government in Turkey will use the Cyprus problem card to make sure Turkey NEVER gets accepted into the EU...The Turkish proposals presented by Talat are clear proof of that... so don't spend too much time agonising over them...And if as expected Eroglu wins the Presidential in April,that will be the ultimate proof..Because under the present demographics Eroglu cannot win,and Talat cannot loose,without Turkey's help...so forget it ,people...The game is over..There will be no solution,the status quo serves Turkish interests and the GC interests equally well,and that is what will remain in place for a long time to come...

Hello Bir, nothing personal and what exchanges we had previously is now water under the bridge for me, however I wanted to ask you a question.

Which would you prefer?

1. A status Quo for the time being

or

2. A bodged 'solution' to apease some with a good possibility of a return to the 60's problems?

I ask, because is seems to me that you wish to constantly blackmail us to accept something real fast even though we do not agree with it just so that you can get what you want. You know as well as anyone else, the demands being made by Turkey and the TCs are totally unacceptable yet you still throw at us the idea 'If you don't accept these then you are F'ed' , at least thats the way I am reading it.

if you were in our shoes, would you accept these terms?? i guess not, so please don't expect us to.

We do want a solution, it is in everyones interest to have a solution, but we demand a fair and just and most of all a WORKABLE solution.

Further, in response to your question in a previous thread, I do acknowledge the suffering of the TCs in those 3 villages you mentioned and any other village. Those that did these terrible things need to be dealt with. I do acknowledge the TC plight (although it is not obvious, but I and we have admitted it enough times), whereas I don't feel that many on your side have.

I do not condone these killings and murders of innocent civilians nor Prisoners of war (look back Bir), and it should offend any decent human being, thats not to say that if the time came I would not take up arms if the need be but we all hope that this will not come to pass.

Over to you.

I am always open to civilised discussion,B25...As long as you do not attempt to read my mind or assume motives I do not have...The alternative to the status quo is not a "bodged solution" as you say..We can have a reasonable solution which will satisfy both sides primary concerns...Sure we need to be creative and compromise,but for that the GCs need to swollow one bitter pill...I know this is not easy,but it is the only way we will move on from where we are...That bitter pill is this: Turkey and the TCs will NEVER accept a solutiion which will remove Turkey from the picture all together...If and when you accept this,I am sure all other problems can be solved more or less to everyone's satisfaction...The status quo I believe is working worse for the TCs who will be totally Turkified within 25 years...But the status quo is also working against the GCs as it will cement Partition along the present borders...Within 25 years there will be at least as many "New TCs" as GCs in Cyprus and no other solution but partition will be feasible or desirable by anyone...So Cyprus will be divided between Turkey and the RoC...If that is alright with you guys,so ahead and make Turkey's day by insisting on democracy and human rights and EU principles and all that...It is music to Turkish ears...We call it "yalelli havasi"...

Agree with what you say except the time scale. It will not happen in 25 years time, more likely 5. If we have 5 more years of GC suffocation of the TCs, 99% of TCs will not even mix with GCs. The hatred will be unmanagable.

I can say less than 5 Fred.

Also Bir conclusions and comments are correct . He can read very clearly TC's and Turkey's mind . Yes rest of it called Arabin Yallelisi ....

I agree with you but I did not want to upset our GC cousins. I thought 5 sounded less drastic and less to worry about. Moon gave them plenty to think about on monday. The starnge thing is last weekend we had full moon. I wonder if the two are related?
The lunatics are on the move.

[Lit]

This is the Turkish position today:

- Rotating Presidency to be on a 3:2 ratio.
Thats 3 years GC followed by 2 years TC
Both President and VP have right of veto

- Federal Cabinet made of 7GC's and 5TC's

- 2 separate Flight Information Regions on the island

- Turkish nationals wanting to reside on the island will enjoy the four basic freedoms.

- separate jurisdictions over coast and EEZ.

- Legislature: The proposal underlined that while representation in the senate will be on a communal basis, at the House of Representatives representation will be on the basis of “internal citizenship status.” Thus, a Greek Cypriot who might reside in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state will not be able to be elected either to the Senate or the House from the Turkish Cypriot contingencies.

There is more but I'll begin with these ones.

The GC side has moved from all its former positions and accepted a rotating presidency for the 1st time on a ratio of 4 years GC 2 years TC. The response was for the Turkish side to move away from the rotating presidency at first and move to a council presidency. (thus deleting any chance of a strong central power in the federation much like the Annan Plan) The Turkish side has now "returned to the rotating presidency with one small amendment, a ratio of 3:2.

COnclusion:
The red line cross by the President for the sake of goodwill with rotating presidency is returned with an amended ratio from 4:2 to 3:2.

The GC side then proceeded to offer up the concession of 50,000 settlers remaining. Thats 10,000 more than the Annan Plan did.

Result: The Turkish side demanded that ALL Turkish citizens should have the right to live, work, stay and move about freely in Cyprus.

Conclusion we say 50,000, Turkey responds with 70 million.

Hang your heads in shame GC's, we are the intransigent ones. [/b]

I am surprised Bananiot hasn’t responded to you by calling you a rejectionist hardliner.

70 million Anatolians! LOL. I mean really…whats not to like about the Turkish proposals?

Bananiot: Now its time for some camp fire singing:

Peace is what we meta-leftists seek
Even if its in name only
Love is a river rolling
Living with 70 million Anatolians is a chance we take
When we make this world our home
Gonna make this world our home

Put your voice into it people!

[YFred]

This is the Turkish position today:

- Rotating Presidency to be on a 3:2 ratio.
Thats 3 years GC followed by 2 years TC
Both President and VP have right of veto

- Federal Cabinet made of 7GC's and 5TC's

- 2 separate Flight Information Regions on the island

- Turkish nationals wanting to reside on the island will enjoy the four basic freedoms.

- separate jurisdictions over coast and EEZ.

- Legislature: The proposal underlined that while representation in the senate will be on a communal basis, at the House of Representatives representation will be on the basis of “internal citizenship status.” Thus, a Greek Cypriot who might reside in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state will not be able to be elected either to the Senate or the House from the Turkish Cypriot contingencies.

There is more but I'll begin with these ones.

The GC side has moved from all its former positions and accepted a rotating presidency for the 1st time on a ratio of 4 years GC 2 years TC. The response was for the Turkish side to move away from the rotating presidency at first and move to a council presidency. (thus deleting any chance of a strong central power in the federation much like the Annan Plan) The Turkish side has now "returned to the rotating presidency with one small amendment, a ratio of 3:2.

COnclusion:
The red line cross by the President for the sake of goodwill with rotating presidency is returned with an amended ratio from 4:2 to 3:2.

The GC side then proceeded to offer up the concession of 50,000 settlers remaining. Thats 10,000 more than the Annan Plan did.

Result: The Turkish side demanded that ALL Turkish citizens should have the right to live, work, stay and move about freely in Cyprus.

Conclusion we say 50,000, Turkey responds with 70 million.

Hang your heads in shame GC's, we are the intransigent ones. [/b]

I am surprised Bananiot hasn’t responded to you by calling you a rejectionist hardliner.

70 million Anatolians! LOL. I mean really…whats not to like about the Turkish proposals?

Bananiot: Now its time for some camp fire singing:

Peace is what we meta-leftists seek
Even if its in name only
Love is a river rolling
Living with 70 million Anatolians is a chance we take
When we make this world our home
Gonna make this world our home

Put your voice into it people!

Don't you worry your little minds, there'll be another better deal next time. Forever the optimist ay.