Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

The thread material is just demands DT. It doesn't mean Christofias accepted them.
Christofias said many times he is disappointed from Talat bringing in confederal demands. We will not accept such demands.

Let's not start an OXI campaign like idiots without having the complete picture in front of us.
What I am disappointed of so far is that they ve been discussing the matter of power sharing for so long and even on that we still have a great chasm. How about the other important issues? Imo the Turkish side wants it all and they will not give anything in the end.
Here are my predictions:

a)Property issue: The will insist the current user has the first say
b)Settlers:They will insist they all stay.
c)Turkish Nationals:They will insist they get EU citizen rights in Cyprus, like the Greek nationals.
d)Territory: They will start from 30%. No return of Morfou.
e)Right of Return:they will insist on limiting it to 10% as per Anan Plan.
f)Derrogations:They will throw in a ton of demands for derrogations from EU aquis.

Just forget it. Imo if Eroglu is elected we should take the chance to get rid of everything we agreed so far.BBF and all this bullshit. Just forget there will be an agreed solution EVER and just stay clean from any obligations and any agreements.
We should STAY CLEAN waiting for the day Turkey will be ready to join the EU or get her special relations agreement.

Pyro,

the President HAS accepted some of this. Rotating presidency and 50k settlers were HIS proposals. The reason I added the Turkish proposals were because that was the Turkish responce to the Presidents generous offers of goodwill.

You accept 50,000 settlers? Tough titties, we now want them ALL to stay and we're sending over another 70m should they wish to.

[B25]

Besides no matter how sad that would be the number of TCs will be reduced in the next decade to the point we will not have any substantial TC population to talk with any longer. After the Orams case there will be absolutely nothing to sustain an "economy" in the occupied. That would turn the Cyprus problem into a problem if INVASION/OCCUPATION/SETTLEMENT between Cyprus and Turkey. It won't be a problem between the 2 communities anymore.
Either we will lose it all or Tuirkey will lose it all. Remains to be seen...

As more time goes by and more TCs leave and the situation gets more entrenched the worse it will become. Eventually you will be negotiating with Turks 'cos all the TCs will have left. I know you'll say you are negotiating with TR anyway, but any TC influence that exists now will be gone eventually.

VW, we have been negotiiating with Turkey from Day 1, TCs have and had no say all long.

[vaughanwilliams]

Besides no matter how sad that would be the number of TCs will be reduced in the next decade to the point we will not have any substantial TC population to talk with any longer. After the Orams case there will be absolutely nothing to sustain an "economy" in the occupied. That would turn the Cyprus problem into a problem if INVASION/OCCUPATION/SETTLEMENT between Cyprus and Turkey. It won't be a problem between the 2 communities anymore.
Either we will lose it all or Tuirkey will lose it all. Remains to be seen...

As more time goes by and more TCs leave and the situation gets more entrenched the worse it will become. Eventually you will be negotiating with Turks 'cos all the TCs will have left. I know you'll say you are negotiating with TR anyway, but any TC influence that exists now will be gone eventually.

VW, we have been negotiiating with Turkey from Day 1, TCs have and had no say all long.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I am saying that any influence TCs ever had is fading fast.

[humanist]

Why do we keep selling ourselves short?

I agree Oracle .........

[humanist]

DT... I believe that the President needs to take a tougher approach on the negotiations and give a bottom line accepted by GC's anything else is a compromise ... you can't build a nation on compromise..... Talat needs to come clean as to whether he is keen on bbf at minimum where all citizens share same ideology and that is to be Cypriot. He may as well stop here than be known as the President who signed Cyprus over to Turkey. If the TC's are genuine about their will to unite and build a united Cyprus then they are welcome to join in, ohtrewise is all afarse and he needs to call it for what it is. He can inform the UN that Talat is playing around and isn't really keen on anything. If Talat is under threat from Ankara then he needs to seither make an aly in Christofias and demand additional secutiyt for spilling the beans or he should withdraw from the discussions if he has given up. Or fix it and be known as a unity man

[YFred]

Why do we keep selling ourselves short?

I agree Oracle .........

You'll find there is more money in short selling than long selling.

[B25]

Besides no matter how sad that would be the number of TCs will be reduced in the next decade to the point we will not have any substantial TC population to talk with any longer. After the Orams case there will be absolutely nothing to sustain an "economy" in the occupied. That would turn the Cyprus problem into a problem if INVASION/OCCUPATION/SETTLEMENT between Cyprus and Turkey. It won't be a problem between the 2 communities anymore.
Either we will lose it all or Tuirkey will lose it all. Remains to be seen...

As more time goes by and more TCs leave and the situation gets more entrenched the worse it will become. Eventually you will be negotiating with Turks 'cos all the TCs will have left. I know you'll say you are negotiating with TR anyway, but any TC influence that exists now will be gone eventually.

VW, we have been negotiiating with Turkey from Day 1, TCs have and had no say all long.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I am saying that any influence TCs ever had is fading fast.

VW, you are not listening, the TCs NEVERHAD ANY INFLUENCE, EVER. It has ALWAYS been Turkey, thats why she flooded the north with settlers to cement that say. the TCs (unfortunately) are 2 a penny now, worthless, but they NEVER had anysay anyway. This is a classic case of shooting oneself in the foot, where they thought they were being 'saved' they were actually being 'shafted'.

Eitherway, the problem still exists TCs or no TCs, I don't even believe they can make any difference anyway, as their voting power has been diluted with settlers loyal to Turkey.

This is fact.

[Kikapu]

I believe Christofias is done with Talat's BS with demands from Turkey, so unless real sensible proposal are made by Turkey for a settlement very soon, Christofias will just run out Talat's political clock once and for all by dragging these talks to nothing, because nothing is being offered back. Talat's ability to negotiate anything as a "president" has been as useless as Hugh Hefner today going to bed with bunch of young women, since he too is no longer able to "deliver the goods", but only enjoying the moment instead. Talat has also been enjoying the moment. Moment of uselessness.!

I think the rotating presidency is workable as long as both the GC/TC candidates are voted as one ticket by all citizens. The 50,000 will include mostly children born to at least one TC parent and the remainder will be the spouse from Turkey. Had we never had problems in Cyprus, the natural growth for the TC population would be around 200,000 today. Even with the added 50,000 "new TC's" to the north, the actual TCs numbers will be way below 200,000. All the rest of the Illegal Aliens in the north will need to depart ASAP and then re-apply for residency or work permits controlled by the new Federal Government.

Christofias was very smart to offer these from the beginning, to show the world that the GCs are serious in making compromises to include the TCs in the new country under BBF. Then again, he could afford to be generous because he also knew that the TC/Turkey position was always going to be the AP solution, in which case he can decline to propose such demands to a referendum and let the talks fall apart on it's own course without having the need to be rejected by the GCs themselves, so not to get another "political black eye" after the AP fiasco in 2004, but at least they got the EU membership out of it, so it was worth the bad PR for a while. Now, the EU membership has become for them the "Golden Goose that keeps on laying the Golden Eggs" while the TCs had to content being with just a turkey. If the present TC/Turkey proposals are to remain as they are now, then Talat's days are numbered as being just as useless as Denktash had been for the TCs or the future puppets who are destined to become the next "president" in the north for the Illegal Aliens and the remaining TCs..!

[YFred]

I believe Christofias is done with Talat's BS with demands from Turkey, so unless real sensible proposal are made by Turkey for a settlement very soon, Christofias will just run out Talat's political clock once and for all by dragging these talks to nothing, because nothing is being offered back. Talat's ability to negotiate anything as a "president" has been as useless as Hugh Hefner today going to bed with bunch of young women, since he too is no longer able to "deliver the goods", but only enjoying the moment instead. Talat has also been enjoying the moment. Moment of uselessness.!

I think the rotating presidency is workable as long as both the GC/TC candidates are voted as one ticket by all citizens. The 50,000 will include mostly children born to at least one TC parent and the remainder will be the spouse from Turkey. Had we never had problems in Cyprus, the natural growth for the TC population would be around 200,000 today. Even with the added 50,000 "new TC's" to the north, the actual TCs numbers will be way below 200,000. All the rest of the Illegal Aliens in the north will need to depart ASAP and then re-apply for residency or work permits controlled by the new Federal Government.

Christofias was very smart to offer these from the beginning, to show the world that the GCs are serious in making compromises to include the TCs in the new country under BBF. Then again, he could afford to be generous because he also knew that the TC/Turkey position was always going to be the AP solution, in which case he can decline to propose such demands to a referendum and let the talks fall apart on it's own course without having the need to be rejected by the GCs themselves, so not to get another "political black eye" after the AP fiasco in 2004, but at least they got the EU membership out of it, so it was worth the bad PR for a while. Now, the EU membership has become for them the "Golden Goose that keeps on laying the Golden Eggs" while the TCs had to content being with just a turkey. If the present TC/Turkey proposals are to remain as they are now, then Talat's days are numbered as being just as useless as Denktash had been for the TCs or the future puppets who are destined to become the next "president" in the north for the Illegal Aliens and the remaining TCs..!

Who is bullshitting who here. Muhtar X was heard saying to the Europeans, you deal with Turkey and leave Talat to me. Yeah right.
Carry on with that mentality and two states it will be. Don't for one moment think that the Europeans don't know they were short-changed after the 2004 fiasco. It'll come back and hit the GCs where it hurts. On the short and curlies.
Wasn’t somebody talking about short-changing?

[Pyrpolizer]

Besides no matter how sad that would be the number of TCs will be reduced in the next decade to the point we will not have any substantial TC population to talk with any longer. After the Orams case there will be absolutely nothing to sustain an "economy" in the occupied. That would turn the Cyprus problem into a problem if INVASION/OCCUPATION/SETTLEMENT between Cyprus and Turkey. It won't be a problem between the 2 communities anymore.
Either we will lose it all or Tuirkey will lose it all. Remains to be seen...

As more time goes by and more TCs leave and the situation gets more entrenched the worse it will become. Eventually you will be negotiating with Turks 'cos all the TCs will have left. I know you'll say you are negotiating with TR anyway, but any TC influence that exists now will be gone eventually.

I don't think we will be negotiating with "Turkos"(=Mainland Turks) anymore. Like I said the Cyprus problem will be on a new basis that would require only one solution: Complete removal of Turkish troops AND SETTLERS.

There is nothing there to negotiate.