Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

and then TCs at the mercy of GCs, been there before not a pretty picture - megaolmaniacs without fear of inflicting persecution and apartheid towards TCs.

You hate the army less for the people lost, and more for their halting the hellenisation of Cyprus. You know it more than anyone else.

Bollocks. Apartheid is what we have now courtesy of "taksim". The Turkish army is here to serve that end as you go on to admit. Thank you for clarifying the invasion of Cyprus as an attack on hellenic culture. Except for one caveat. It's not to stop the hellenisation of Cyprus that the Turkish army invaded but to de-hellenise it by expelling its people and eradicating its heritage. Turkish policy on Cyprus is less about the T/Cs and more about attacking the culture and aspirations of Greek Cypriots. It is remarkable that you are prepared to admit it.

Bollocks.

[Hermes]

and then TCs at the mercy of GCs, been there before not a pretty picture - megaolmaniacs without fear of inflicting persecution and apartheid towards TCs.

You hate the army less for the people lost, and more for their halting the hellenisation of Cyprus. You know it more than anyone else.

Bollocks. Apartheid is what we have now courtesy of "taksim". The Turkish army is here to serve that end as you go on to admit. Thank you for clarifying the invasion of Cyprus as an attack on hellenic culture. Except for one caveat. It's not to stop the hellenisation of Cyprus that the Turkish army invaded but to de-hellenise it by expelling its people and eradicating its heritage. Turkish policy on Cyprus is less about the T/Cs and more about attacking the culture and aspirations of Greek Cypriots. It is remarkable that you are prepared to admit it.

The Army is both a help and hinderence. A help because it does give the Turkish Cypriots a sense of security, and a hinderence because it shows clearly who calls the shots in North Cyprus. Personally, the numbers do need to be severely pared back, but some presence would need to be maintained until the TC's can feel that there won't be any recurrence of the intercommunal fighting...

The Turkish army is not there to "protect" the T/Cs they are there to maintain partition and prevent the Greek Cypriots from reclaiming their land and property. How many times do we have to keep telling you? There are better ways to preserve the rights of a community than keeping them enclaved, isolated, swamped and marginilized by 40,000 troops and 120,000 settlers on stolen land. What kind of "security" is that? How safe do T/Cs feel squatting on stolen land at the mercy of international courts and the feelings of bitterness and resentment from the majority community whose land they have taken? I can't think of a less secure way to "protect" the T/Cs. And still you would choose that over a united Cyprus in the EU under the protection of EU and international law? Go ahead, it's your noose I suppose...

[Expatkiwi]

The Turkish army is not there to "protect" the T/Cs they are there to maintain partition and prevent the Greek Cypriots from reclaiming their land and property. How many times do we have to keep telling you?

There are better ways to preserve the rights of a community than keeping them enclaved, isolated, swamped and marginilized by 40,000 troops and 120,000 settlers on stolen land. What kind of "security" is that? How safe do T/Cs feel squatting on stolen land at the mercy of international courts and the feelings of bitterness and resentment from the majority community whose land they have taken?

I can't think of a less secure way to "protect" the T/Cs. And still you would choose that over a united Cyprus in the EU under the protection of EU and international law. Go ahead, it's your noose I suppose...

There you go again! Misconstruing what I've been writing! I'm not in favor of the Turkish military being in Cyprus. I thought I made THAT clear in earlier posts. However, the info I get from my TC friends is that they regard their presence as insurance against Greek Cypriot agression. Changing that mindset will be critical, Hermes.... that is, if what you say about GC's being no threat to TC's is indeed true...

[Hermes]

The Turkish army is not there to "protect" the T/Cs they are there to maintain partition and prevent the Greek Cypriots from reclaiming their land and property. How many times do we have to keep telling you?

There are better ways to preserve the rights of a community than keeping them enclaved, isolated, swamped and marginilized by 40,000 troops and 120,000 settlers on stolen land. What kind of "security" is that? How safe do T/Cs feel squatting on stolen land at the mercy of international courts and the feelings of bitterness and resentment from the majority community whose land they have taken?

I can't think of a less secure way to "protect" the T/Cs. And still you would choose that over a united Cyprus in the EU under the protection of EU and international law. Go ahead, it's your noose I suppose...

There you go again! Misconstruing what I've been writing! I'm not in favor of the Turkish military being in Cyprus. I thought I made THAT clear in earlier posts. However, the info I get from my TC friends is that they regard their presence as insurance against Greek Cypriot agression. Changing that mindset will be critical, Hermes.... that is, if what you say about GC's being no threat to TC's is indeed true...

Changing that mindset is absolutely an issue. Dispelling myths about the reality of the Turkish invasion of the island is a key aspect of the problem. It has to be understood as well that the presence of the Turkish army makes the T/Cs less secure. Dwindling numbers and cultural irrelevance is only one aspect of T/Cs insecurity. But also there is the insecurity of living on land which legally belongs to someone else. It's not just the emotional and legal insecurity but also the intense hostility and contempt this engenders in the majority. Believe me, the issue of reclaiming our land back will not go away no matter how many troops are on the island. For us it is a question of justice. Not of depriving T/Cs of their rights. One does not exclude the other. I've said this before, you will be surprised how accommodating Greek Cypriots can be when you stop trying to steal our land and stop trying to divide our country.

[Viewpoint]

The Turkish army is not there to "protect" the T/Cs they are there to maintain partition and prevent the Greek Cypriots from reclaiming their land and property. How many times do we have to keep telling you?

There are better ways to preserve the rights of a community than keeping them enclaved, isolated, swamped and marginilized by 40,000 troops and 120,000 settlers on stolen land. What kind of "security" is that? How safe do T/Cs feel squatting on stolen land at the mercy of international courts and the feelings of bitterness and resentment from the majority community whose land they have taken?

I can't think of a less secure way to "protect" the T/Cs. And still you would choose that over a united Cyprus in the EU under the protection of EU and international law. Go ahead, it's your noose I suppose...

There you go again! Misconstruing what I've been writing! I'm not in favor of the Turkish military being in Cyprus. I thought I made THAT clear in earlier posts. However, the info I get from my TC friends is that they regard their presence as insurance against Greek Cypriot agression. Changing that mindset will be critical, Hermes.... that is, if what you say about GC's being no threat to TC's is indeed true...

Changing that mindset is absolutely an issue. Dispelling myths about the reality of the Turkish invasion of the island is a key aspect of the problem. It has to be understood as well that the presence of the Turkish army makes the T/Cs less secure. Dwindling numbers and cultural irrelevance is only one aspect of T/Cs insecurity. But also there is the insecurity of living on land which legally belongs to someone else. It's not just the emotional and legal insecurity but also the intense hostility and contempt this engenders in the majority. Believe me, the issue of reclaiming our land back will not go away no matter how many troops are on the island. For us it is a question of justice. Not of depriving T/Cs of their rights. One does not exclude the other. I've said this before, you will be surprised how accommodating Greek Cypriots can be when you stop trying to steal our land and stop trying to divide our country.

SO what do you expect us to do just roll over and accept minority status in a GC unitary state run by GCs exposed to the pittfalls and discrimination that only GC are so good at.

[Get Real!]

SO what do you expect us to do just roll over and accept minority status in a GC unitary state run by GCs exposed to the pittfalls and discrimination that only GC are so good at.

Why complicate things? We just expect you to roll over and die.

[Hermes]

SO what do you expect us to do just roll over and accept minority status in a GC unitary state run by GCs exposed to the pittfalls and discrimination that only GC are so good at.

Is that your only answer? Can't you think of a way to becoming productive, prosperous citizens of an EU state where your rights are protected by EU law? Or is what you're really concerned about is the fact that Greek Cypriots know how to run a successful economy and you fear not being able to survive having been so used to being subsidised by Turkey and living off the false wealth of selling property which doesn't belong to you?

I've got news. You just can't sit on your lazy arses all your lives and expect to suck at the nipple of Mama Turkey. You lot have got to grow up and take some responsibility for yourselves instead of whining endlessly about being exposed to discrimination. It's a tough world. Greek Cypriots had to rebuild their shattered lives after the Turkish invasion and are now prosperous and successful members of the EU.

You have a chance to share in our wealth and build a future for yourselves. Instead you look constantly back to a bygone age and come up with nothing but excuses. It's just a bit pathetic.

[Expatkiwi]

SO what do you expect us to do just roll over and accept minority status in a GC unitary state run by GCs exposed to the pittfalls and discrimination that only GC are so good at.

Is that your only answer? Can't you think of a way to becoming productive, prosperous citizens of an EU state where your rights are protected by EU law? Or is what you're really concerned about is the fact that Greek Cypriots know how to run a successful economy and you fear not being able to survive having been so used to being subsidised by Turkey and living off the false wealth of selling property which doesn't belong to you?

I've got news. You just can't sit on your lazy arses all your lives and expect to suck at the nipple of Mama Turkey. You lot have got to grow up and take some responsibility for yourselves instead of whining endlessly about being exposed to discrimination. It's a tough world. Greek Cypriots had to rebuild their shattered lives after the Turkish invasion and are now prosperous and successful members of the EU.

You have a chance to share in our wealth and build a future for yourselves. Instead you look constantly back to a bygone age and come up with nothing but excuses. It's just a bit pathetic.

This post of yours actually makes sense, but it is based on a very flimsy premise: that the GC's are ready to welcome the TC's back, and are willing to share the wealth. Convincing them that this is so is going to be a challenge, if some of the members of this forum are any indication.

[Epiktitos]

This post of yours actually makes sense, but it is based on a very flimsy premise: that the GC's are ready to welcome the TC's back, and are willing to share the wealth.

What the hell are you on about? It's priceless that you should accuse the GCs of not "sharing the wealth" when it is the TCs who hold 37% of the territory of the Republic to ransom and flog it off to foreigners.

Do you suppose that the wealth of the Republic is based on the effortless extraction of oil, and that the GCs sit back and spend government handouts? No sonny, the wealth of the Republic is based on the hard work of the Cypriot people who compete economically on a level playing field with the rest of the European Union; the RoC is not Qatar or Abu Dhabi.

Furthermore, the real reason that the tnucland economy is so far back in the stone age when compared to that of the RoC is not because of the supposed restraints on trade or the GCs somehow not sharing the wealth, it's because the tnucland workforce is by comparison uneducated, unskilled and uncompetitive; and because of the self-inflicted illegitimacy of the tnucland regime, which discourages almost every entity with scruples from investing there. This is evidenced by the fact that the leading contributor to the tnuc economy (after direct cash payments by turkey, of course!) is flogging off the property of ethnically cleansed GCs to foreigners!

[Expatkiwi]

This post of yours actually makes sense, but it is based on a very flimsy premise: that the GC's are ready to welcome the TC's back, and are willing to share the wealth.

What the hell are you on about? It's priceless that you should accuse the GCs of not "sharing the wealth" when it is the TCs who hold 37% of the territory of the Republic to ransom and flog it off to foreigners.

Do you suppose that the wealth of the Republic is based on the effortless extraction of oil, and that the GCs sit back and spend government handouts? No sonny, the wealth of the Republic is based on the hard work of the Cypriot people who compete economically on a level playing field with the rest of the European Union; the RoC is not Qatar or Abu Dhabi.

Furthermore, the real reason that the tnucland economy is so far back in the stone age when compared to that of the RoC is not because of the supposed restraints on trade or the GCs somehow not sharing the wealth, it's because the tnucland workforce is by comparison uneducated, unskilled and uncompetitive; and because of the self-inflicted illegitimacy of the tnucland regime, which discourages almost every entity with scruples from investing there. This is evidenced by the fact that the leading contributor to the tnuc economy (after direct cash payments by turkey, of course!) is flogging off the property of ethnically cleansed GCs to foreigners!

You know, I really roll my eyes at folk like you who misconstrue what I write. I'm writing about a lack of trust, and you're responding with propaganda and accusation. Please stick to the topic at hand, and I may have some respect for you...