Cyprus-Forum.com

[B25]

For those that want to do something about this, here is your chance. I have been passed this info from a colleague of mine and I want to share it as far and wide as possible. Please pass it onto your family and friends and post it in relevent forums that you know that property owners may visit.
You have nothing to lose by enquiring. Good Luck.

THE ORAMS CASE: WHAT NEXT?

The decision of the UK Court of Appeal in the case of Apostolides – v – Orams is historic and significant. It reaffirms that the laws of The Republic of Cyprus (ROC) are valid and enforceable in the occupied North and enforceable throughout Europe.
What does this mean for Greek Cypriots who owned property, both residential and commercial, in the North prior to 1974 and what can they do about it?

To answer this, we must look at what the ROC court originally ordered in Mr Apostolides’ favour in 2004. The court made an order that:
1. The Orams cease trespassing on the land belonging to Mr Apostolides;
2. That they deliver up possession of the land to Mr Apostolides;
3. That they knock down the villa and fencing they had built on the land;
4. That they pay “mesne profits”, i.e. rent to Mr Apostolides for the period of their occupation and
5. That they pay certain sums in respect of Mr Apostolides’ costs of the proceedings.
It remains to be seen whether anything can be done about numbers 1 – 3, but Mr Apostolides is now able to do something about numbers 4 and 5. The judgement of the Court of Appeal means that the original ROC judgement can be enforced against any money, assets or property held by the Orams anywhere in the EU. Consequently, if the Orams do not pay the rent and costs they now owe, Mr Apostolides can now go against their assets and property in the UK to satisfy the original ROC judgement.
Therefore, any Greek Cypriots who owned property in the North prior to 1974 can now do something about it. Firstly, they must obtain judgement in the courts of the ROC along the same lines as Mr Apostolides. Secondly, the financial aspects of the judgement, i.e. for rent and costs, can be enforced against any money, assets or property held by the defendants anywhere throughout the EU.
How is such enforcement carried out?
There are a number of procedures available, but care must be taken to not throw good money after bad. You will need to make sure that:
• You have someone acting for you who can target the defendant’s assets wherever they are in Europe; and
• Someone who will only charge you if they successfully recover the money owed,
The traditional route is to go through lawyers, but the problem here is that they will charge you, usually by the hour, for all the work they do and whether they recover your money or not. Whilst Global Recoveries Limited can and do use lawyers, we will only charge if and when a recovery is made. This means that by using GRL, you have a risk free and cost free solution to enforcing your judgement anywhere in Europe.

How do I get my money?

There are number of ways to enforce a judgement. The available options in the UK, which are broadly similar to other EU countries, are:
• A warrant of execution - sending a court bailiff to collect the money.
• An attachment of earnings order - stopping the money from the defendant's wages.
• A third party debt order - freezing the defendant's money that is held, for example, in a bank account; or
• A charging order - the money is paid on the sale of the defendant's house.

What should I be careful of?

The most important thing is to try and make sure the defendant has the money to pay. You must consider the following points before deciding to embark on enforcement proceedings:
• Are you likely to get your money and court fee from the defendant;
• Does the defendant owe other people money or have other county court judgments;
• Does the defendant own any goods or assets which can be taken and sold at auction;
• Is the defendant is working;
• Has the defendant other earnings, such as income from investments;
• Does the defendant have a bank, building society or other account;
• Does the defendant own property; or
• Does anyone else owe the defendant money.

These questions can be difficult to answer, which means it might sometimes be necessary to make enquiries about the defendant’s means before we can decide whether enforcement proceedings will be successful. Obviously, if the defendant has no money or assets, no amount of threats or court proceedings will succeed.

How much does GRL charge?

GRL’s fees are based on a percentage of the amount recovered. The percentage varies depending on the amount involved, the location of the defendant and their financial position. We are always happy to provide a free, no obligation estimate of any case.

Why use GRL?

Costas Andrea, the managing director of GRL, spent 20 years as a solicitor in the UK, specialising in international litigation with 7 of those years running his own legal practice. He built up his own, personal network of trusted lawyers, funders and advisers, worldwide and was recognised as a “Leader” in this field.
Costas set up GRL to offer an alternative to going to a lawyer for international cases, who the client would have to pay by the hour, whether they won or lost their case. The GRL model offers clients a completely risk free and cost free solution.
Finally, GRL already currently acts for a number of Greek Cypriot businesses involved in international trade.

How do I get in touch?

All enquiries are dealt with confidentially, without obligation and without charge. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain, so please do not hesitate to contact us:

Costas Andrea (please quote ref. No. OCCF/2010 when responding)

Email: [email protected]
Web: www.grl.gb.com
Tel: 00 44 (0) 1428 729922
Fax: 00 44 (0) 1428 725024

Global Recoveries Limited,
PO Box 121,
Liphook,
Hampshire,
GU30 9AW
England

[Pyrpolizer]

So
1)is it true that if they refuse to pay there won't be an arrest warrant waiting for them?
2)Is it true that the case still remains civil without defaulting to criminal? (considering the refusal to pay as contempt to court decisions)
3)What exactly is the minimum amount of claimed money the GLR would be interested in taking the case? Would for example a case of 3000-4000 Euros for rents interest them?

[Pyrpolizer]

I have put some more questions here

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28318

(to which by the way I am not waiting many answers)

I am just placing those questions because at the moment we look like happy dancing chicken with no brains at all

[bill cobbett]

I have put some more questions here

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28318

(to which by the way I am not waiting many answers)

I am just placing those questions because at the moment we look like happy dancing chicken with no brains at all

Sure individuals will make the choice inthe cool light of day and not in the euphoria of the last few days.

First question to ask is do you have the kochans in your name? Vital that the kochans are kept updated.

[T_C]

I hear some lawyers are bringing out pre-paid Sue packs which will be available in all supermarkets and corner stores!

Consisting of 3 different varieties; Tresspassing, Carpetbagging and Illegalling. They make the perfect gift for any refugee.

Just pop open the relevant box, fill out your personal details, their small questionaire and they do the rest!

[B25]

@Pyro

I put your questions to GLR and here are some answers to you questions:

1)How would one prove beyond and reasonable doubt that the summoned is indeed the "owner"? This will be a question of fact. If you can get a copy of the TNRC “deeds” they should have the “owner’s” name on it. Other than that, it could be difficult, but some form of documentary evidence is best.

2)How difficult would it be to deliver the summons?(the pseudo already announced persons doing so will be imprisoned) Obviously very difficult in TNRC, but if you have the owners UK/EU address, you can serve any ROC proceedings anywhere in the EU – you do not have to serve them at the property in the TNRC, unless the type of proceedings you are taking require it under ROC rules, but serving proceedings outside the jurisdiction is common practice.

3)Is it possible to call someone who for example lives in Germany to appear at a Court in Nicosia? You can serve someone, either as a defendant or a witness, anywhere in the EU, but whether they attend or not is another matter. That said, if they’re the defendant and they are validly served in their home country, if they don’t put in an appearance, you can enter judgement in default.

4)Will the RoC allow the hearings immediately, or will they postpone them for as long as they can? This will all be governed by the ROC rules, which I don’t know, and whether there’s any political reason for a delay, which of course is impossible to comment about.

5)Would the authorities of other EU countries cooperate if a lot of cases end up to arrest warrants? Is it possible we end up having diplomatic problems? This is a civil issue, it’s not criminal and arrest warrants apply to criminal, not civil matters. Unless you have a judgement from an ROC criminal court, not the ROC civil court, arrest warrants never arise.

6)Will such actions really stagnate the economy at the occupied or will they just start building on clean TC land? Probably both...

and....

1)is it true that if they refuse to pay there won't be an arrest warrant waiting for them? No, they won’t be arrested – we don’t have debtor’s prisons any more.

2)Is it true that the case still remains civil without defaulting to criminal? (considering the refusal to pay as contempt to court decisions) - we’re talking here about civil claims. You can’t arrest someone for a civil claim, you can just enforce your judgement, which might include making them bankrupt, but then you’ll just be in line with all the other unsecured creditors.

3)What exactly is the minimum amount of claimed money the GLR would be interested in taking the case? Would for example a case of 3000-4000 Euros for rents interest them? I’ll consider anything, even as low as €3 – 4,000 Euros...

[Oracle]

What's wrong with using Cyprus based lawyers (and avoid turning this into a free-for-all)?

[rigsby]

Hasn,t the Cypriot gov put something in place to help the G/C,s recover their properties or land.Surely each person has not got to fight his own case

[Pyrpolizer]

Thank you b25.

Some questions I 've put were not meant for the lawyers but for us here in CF as food for thought.

Regarding No1 as far as I know the courts of the Republic do not accept photocopies unless they are certified to be genuine. I really doubt anyone could ever get such a certified copy. So even if you get a copy of their "deeds" such a copy could serve as supportive evidence only. A lot of other evidence is required. Kandounas had the Orams video taped for hours. Hundreds of photographs as well. He had eye witnesses to testify the Orams said the house is theirs...

Points No 2 and 3 are now confirmed to be of no problem.

The other problem I see is is that the case remains civil to the very end and all you can do is just sue the trespassers once again against their assets somewhere in the EU.

And what will your nett profit be in the end? Only some rent.

So I conclude this is just another case for the few. Only some GCs who have substantial immovable property in the occupied will proceed. The average man in the streets will not. The good thing is that once you have all the evidence the procedure is pretty fast, you don't have to wait for centuries like we wait at the ECHR.

Another thought I have is that surely there will be a black market selling hard evidence in the next few years. Documents collected from burglerers, certified copies from utitilies, banks etc. The underground will surely organise everything, however imagine how much you will have to pay to get them. And how many years it will take for this market to develop.

[Pyrpolizer]

What's wrong with using Cyprus based lawyers (and avoid turning this into a free-for-all)?

Because Achilleas Demetriades wanted 3000 pounds/ 5000 Euro just to send the first letter to the ECHR, plus 30% of whatever you get.

I have no doubt this company will be charging about 40-50% because it provides a risk free option. (You only pay them if they win for you)

Nothing is easy man, once you mess up with lawyers and courts you are half doomed. Of course that's better than mess up with doctors isn't it?