Cyprus-Forum.com

[vaughanwilliams]

Wasn't the Government, but here's what I read:

"When HSBC bought out Turkish Demirbank in 2002 and they announced they were opening branches in N. Cyprus, a senior manager from the GC central bank went to London to pressure the British Financial Services Authority to stop HSBC's operations in the north, but this one protest the greeks did not win. And they are still protesting about it"

The rules have changed now, though. HSBC stand to lose shed loads...

Homework not done again, boys?
I hate to rain on your parade lads, but HSBC is located in 1 Agustos Sokak, Girne, on original Turkish title land. They moved there from their original GC "owned" site in the high street, about 3 years ago.
How do I know this? Their landlord is my landlord and he asked me to pass a message on to you guys. It looked a bit like the Churchill salute, but the other way around.

Thanks for sharing that. How many years did they spend at the previous GC address?

You can't expect me to do your homework.
At least I spared you the embarassment and expense of trying to take them to court.

Vaughan,

Is it verified TC land according to the TRNC Tapu or the RoC Land Registry? Only I reckon loads of people think they have Pre-74 title when they don't have any such thing.

I can only verify that my TC landlord has told me it is Turkish Title land. If you pop into the Ak Market, next door to HSBC, I'm sure he will clarify.

[Epiktitos]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the Orams ruling asserts that the laws of the Republic of Cyprus apply in the occupied north regardless of the ability of the Republic to enforce those laws then.

In this case, the physical location of HSBC outlets is secondary since HSBC is subject to the banking and commercial laws of the RoC. Banks are subject to supervision, reserve requirements, audits, taxation, etc. HSBC is effectively carrying out a banking business in contravention of the laws of the RoC and they can presumably be prosecuted by the appropriate banking or financial regulator just like I would be prosecuted if I illegally operated Epiktitos Bank Incorporated in Larnaca.

My guess is that this line of reasoning applies for any transnational business operating in the occupied north without the necessary license, or that has neglected to pay taxes to the RoC treasury. I suspect that the issue of trespass will become secondary where transnational businesses are concerned.

[vaughanwilliams]

Is it verified TC land according to the TRNC Tapu or the RoC Land Registry? Only I reckon loads of people think they have Pre-74 title when they don't have any such thing.

Absolutely. One thing that has become very clear to me is that most of the Brits who have purchased over there haven't a clue what all this Esdegger/Exchange/Foreign/Turkish/pre 74 Turkish/ stuff means.

They believed whatever the estate agents who sold to them told them at the time.

It was said to me by a couple who bought in the Iskele area that they were shown an 'old map' by the Estate Agent - proving that all that land round there was Turkish Cypriot owned in the past! I've read stuff to the absolute contrary for that area. Estate Agents will say anything to secure a sale.

Medview was telling people there was nothing to worry about - that the land theirs was built on was not in dispute and then, at the same time, telling them that if anything untoward did happen in the future regarding it (tho it was highly unlikely) they would promise to pay them back what they paid originally. Well if there was nothing to worry about - why the need for the promise of repayment?

Eric,
I can only confirm what I was told with my TC landlord. I must assume that, as he is an elderly TC gentleman and not some ill-informed ex-pat, that he knows exactly what status his property is.

Gassman,
How could you possibly suggest that Estate Agents here in TRNC are anything less than truthful, honest folk, who wouldn't tell people anything they thought would help them close a sale? It is also nothing less than scandalous to suggest that it is the EAs that are to blame here, and not the carpetbagging ex-pats, who knew full well what they were being sold when they most wickedly and deliberately bought GC land.

[denizaksulu]

Only a fool will trust an estate agent/crook in the north. I was offered prime sites and gave up after they had to admit the truth. I lived in Kyrenia in the 1950's and knew where the Turks lived and where the Greeks were living. The old HSBC was on GC property , till it disappeared a few years ago. I had to go to Nicosia to withdraw money. No one wanted to say why the HSBC in Kyrenia was closed down. If they have opened a new branch, I sure hope they have learnt their lesson by now.

[vaughanwilliams]

Only a fool will trust an estate agent/crook in the north. I was offered prime sites and gave up after they had to admit the truth. I lived in Kyrenia in the 1950's and knew where the Turks lived and where the Greeks were living. The old HSBC was on GC property , till it disappeared a few years ago. I had to go to Nicosia to withdraw money. No one wanted to say why the HSBC in Kyrenia was closed down. If they have opened a new branch, I sure hope they have learnt their lesson by now.

The old Girne HSBC was closed down as it became too small and there was no parking there. The old Girne HSBC didn't close down until the new one opened, so I don't know why you needed to go to Nic. They have learnt their lesson as there is loads of parking now.

[denizaksulu]

Only a fool will trust an estate agent/crook in the north. I was offered prime sites and gave up after they had to admit the truth. I lived in Kyrenia in the 1950's and knew where the Turks lived and where the Greeks were living. The old HSBC was on GC property , till it disappeared a few years ago. I had to go to Nicosia to withdraw money. No one wanted to say why the HSBC in Kyrenia was closed down. If they have opened a new branch, I sure hope they have learnt their lesson by now.

The old Girne HSBC was closed down as it became too small and there was no parking there. The old Girne HSBC didn't close down until the new one opened, so I don't know why you needed to go to Nic. They have learnt their lesson as there is loads of parking now.

Well, it was not on the high street. I asked a few foreign settlers (thats what they turned out to be) and they couldnt care less. I wasnt desperate so waited to go to Nicosia. Is that ok with you?

[bill cobbett]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the Orams ruling asserts that the laws of the Republic of Cyprus apply in the occupied north regardless of the ability of the Republic to enforce those laws then.

In this case, the physical location of HSBC outlets is secondary since HSBC is subject to the banking and commercial laws of the RoC. Banks are subject to supervision, reserve requirements, audits, taxation, etc. HSBC is effectively carrying out a banking business in contravention of the laws of the RoC and they can presumably be prosecuted by the appropriate banking or financial regulator just like I would be prosecuted if I illegally operated Epiktitos Bank Incorporated in Larnaca.

My guess is that this line of reasoning applies for any transnational business operating in the occupied north without the necessary license, or that has neglected to pay taxes to the RoC treasury. I suspect that the issue of trespass will become secondary where transnational businesses are concerned.

Yes and an action for violation of banking laws would be a prosecution by the appropriate authority of the RoC but so far the RoC gov hasn't engaged in prosecutions. Would be good to see such a test prosecution.

All the actions to date have been by private individuals (perhaps with the support of the RoC)

Welcome to CF.

Welcome to CF.

[Gasman]

Maybe some of the 'powers that be' have money invested in these Banks to take advantage of their much higher interest rates and don't want to rock the boat?

[Epiktitos]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the Orams ruling asserts that the laws of the Republic of Cyprus apply in the occupied north regardless of the ability of the Republic to enforce those laws then.

In this case, the physical location of HSBC outlets is secondary since HSBC is subject to the banking and commercial laws of the RoC. Banks are subject to supervision, reserve requirements, audits, taxation, etc. HSBC is effectively carrying out a banking business in contravention of the laws of the RoC and they can presumably be prosecuted by the appropriate banking or financial regulator just like I would be prosecuted if I illegally operated Epiktitos Bank Incorporated in Larnaca.

My guess is that this line of reasoning applies for any transnational business operating in the occupied north without the necessary license, or that has neglected to pay taxes to the RoC treasury. I suspect that the issue of trespass will become secondary where transnational businesses are concerned.

Yes and an action for violation of banking laws would be a prosecution by the appropriate authority of the RoC but so far the RoC gov hasn't engaged in prosecutions. Would be good to see such a test prosecution.

All the actions to date have been by private individuals (perhaps with the support of the RoC)

Welcome to CF.

Welcome to CF.

Thank you!

It would seem that if the strategy is to turn the screws on the tnucland economy, preventing foreign banks from operating there would be a good place to start. Just going after them for trespass would get them to move premises and pay damages but otherwise continue operating.

Another would be airlines, which given the nature of their business (flying to airports in the EU) would be prime candidates due to the ease of which judgments could be enforced (i.e. seize an airbus when it lands at Gatwick or wherever).

I guess such a move would result in unheard of squealing from the tnucland regime, and an abrupt end to any talks in the near term.

[vaughanwilliams]

[quote="Gasman"]Maybe some of the 'powers that be' have money invested in these Banks to take advantage of their much higher interest rates and don't want to rock the boat?[/quote
Surely not!
Wouldn't that mean some of your people foregoing their principles for filthy lucre? I thought it was the principle of the thing that was the most important....