Cyprus-Forum.com

[vaughanwilliams]

Wasn't the Government, but here's what I read:

"When HSBC bought out Turkish Demirbank in 2002 and they announced they were opening branches in N. Cyprus, a senior manager from the GC central bank went to London to pressure the British Financial Services Authority to stop HSBC's operations in the north, but this one protest the greeks did not win. And they are still protesting about it"

The rules have changed now, though. HSBC stand to lose shed loads...

Homework not done again, boys?
I hate to rain on your parade lads, but HSBC is located in 1 Agustos Sokak, Girne, on original Turkish title land. They moved there from their original GC "owned" site in the high street, about 3 years ago.
How do I know this? Their landlord is my landlord and he asked me to pass a message on to you guys. It looked a bit like the Churchill salute, but the other way around.

Thanks for sharing that. How many years did they spend at the previous GC address?

You can't expect me to do your homework.
At least I spared you the embarassment and expense of trying to take them to court.

You don't know much about Cyprus law do you?

What makes you think its ok to stay in someone's property illegally and get away with it just because you don't stay in it now?

Again thanks for the info, I thought there was nothing to pin on HSBC but your landlord mate has really helped us out here.

Nice try at face saving, mate, but you'll have to do better than that.

[Gasman]

Well I have to agree with DT on the point he makes above.

I see it this way:

If HSBC were sure they were doing nothing wrong, and could not be touched, they wouldn't have moved from their original premises to where they are now to be on Turkish Title Land (I assume it is pre 1974 Turkish Title? VaughnWilliams didn't say.)

And, if there were no question of pursuing anyone who had been living in GC owned property/land just because they are no longer living on it - well they wouldn't now be talking about pursuing former guests of hotels over there would they? They ain't in those hotel rooms now! Just because you have stopped doing something that is deemed to be illegal, doesn't mean you cannot be prosecuted for having done it in the past.

I don't actually think this has much to do with TCs (unless it was a TC who originally sold land/property to a foreigner) it seems to be more to do with stopping outsiders/foreigners from investing or going to live in the TRNC. And bringing it to their attention (even if their Estate Agents and Bankers did not) that what they were doing or contemplating doing was not without risk and they would not be untouchable (esp. in the case of EU nationals or those with any interests in the EU). And to send out a messsage to a lot of the world that it is not 'perfectly OK' and risk free to invest over there.

Not everyone shares the confidence of VW and some others here who are seeming to laugh at the latest ruling and express indifference. I heard only last night from a Brit couple who originally had TC residence but homes in both N and S Cyprus for about 8 years (purchased N, rented S - as many do - when you buy your dream home in the sun for less than the cost of an average car you can afford to pay rent to live somewhere else), changed their residence to RoC a few years ago (health care reasons - most outsiders have more allegiance to their pocket re their health care and the quality of that health care than they do to either N or S), and have now stated that they intend to leave the N and reside permanently in the S.

I doubt they'd be able to sell the N. residence easily or quickly and have to say I am now intrigued as to what might happen to foreign buyers over there on disputed land who just 'walk away' from their property in the N? My feeling is that they could probably still be taken to Court for having had the use of it for the past 8, 9 years or whatever.

It is very interesting to read and hear all these different views being expressed by people who could potentially be affected by the outcome of the Orams decision. Ranging from outright 'we don't care, you can't touch us anyway, Turkish Army will protect us' belligerence to ... well, what I would describe as running round like headless chickens, blaming TRNC Authorities, Estate Agents and getting into a sheer panic - especially if they have interests in the UK.

I doubt very much whether we will ever see a post by one of the latter group on a forum such as this one. There have been many such posts on the 'Northern' forums in the past (when Orams originally went to Court) and much jubilation and BIG sighs of relief when they won at one point. It all then became a sort of 'taboo' subject on the N forums - and it was obvious they didn't want anyone reading about the fears of those who might be affected. Now of course, most of them have vanished (but I would bet my socks they are reading CF and others like it).

[Malapapa]

Homework not done again, boys?
I hate to rain on your parade lads, but HSBC is located in 1 Agustos Sokak, Girne, on original Turkish title land. They moved there from their original GC "owned" site in the high street, about 3 years ago.
How do I know this? Their landlord is my landlord and he asked me to pass a message on to you guys. It looked a bit like the Churchill salute, but the other way around.

Thanks for sharing that. How many years did they spend at the previous GC address?

You can't expect me to do your homework.
At least I spared you the embarassment and expense of trying to take them to court.

You don't know much about Cyprus law do you?

What makes you think its ok to stay in someone's property illegally and get away with it just because you don't stay in it now?

Again thanks for the info, I thought there was nothing to pin on HSBC but your landlord mate has really helped us out here.

It's not just the rent, vaughan, the financial regulators will be having a field day investigating the operations of HSBC in the north. Because of the unequivocal Orams ruling, HSBC may now find they have 'unwittingly' been involved in all manner of financial offences, including but not limited to money laundering, fraud, suspicious transactions, market abuse etc.

Do you bank with HSBC by any chance, vaughan? I'd consider moving. In fact you'd be better off moving out of the "TRNC" altogether.

[vaughanwilliams]

Well I have to agree with DT on the point he makes above.

I see it this way:

If HSBC were sure they were doing nothing wrong, and could not be touched, they wouldn't have moved from their original premises to where they are now to be on Turkish Title Land (I assume it is pre 1974 Turkish Title? VaughnWilliams didn't say.)

And, if there were no question of pursuing anyone who had been living in GC owned property/land just because they are no longer living on it - well they wouldn't now be talking about pursuing former guests of hotels over there would they? They ain't in those hotel rooms now! Just because you have stopped doing something that is deemed to be illegal, doesn't mean you cannot be prosecuted for having done it in the past.

I don't actually think this has much to do with TCs (unless it was a TC who originally sold land/property to a foreigner) it seems to be more to do with stopping outsiders/foreigners from investing or going to live in the TRNC. And bringing it to their attention (even if their Estate Agents and Bankers did not) that what they were doing or contemplating doing was not without risk and they would not be untouchable (esp. in the case of EU nationals or those with any interests in the EU). And to send out a messsage to a lot of the world that it is not 'perfectly OK' and risk free to invest over there.

Not everyone shares the confidence of VW and some others here who are seeming to laugh at the latest ruling and express indifference. I heard only last night from a Brit couple who originally had TC residence but homes in both N and S Cyprus for about 8 years (purchased N, rented S - as many do - when you buy your dream home in the sun for less than the cost of an average car you can afford to pay rent to live somewhere else), changed their residence to RoC a few years ago (health care reasons - most outsiders have more allegiance to their pocket re their health care and the quality of that health care than they do to either N or S), and have now stated that they intend to leave the N and reside permanently in the S.

I doubt they'd be able to sell the N. residence easily or quickly and have to say I am now intrigued as to what might happen to foreign buyers over there on disputed land who just 'walk away' from their property in the N? My feeling is that they could probably still be taken to Court for having had the use of it for the past 8, 9 years or whatever.

It is very interesting to read and hear all these different views being expressed by people who could potentially be affected by the outcome of the Orams decision. Ranging from outright 'we don't care, you can't touch us anyway, Turkish Army will protect us' belligerence to ... well, what I would describe as running round like headless chickens, blaming TRNC Authorities, Estate Agents and getting into a sheer panic - especially if they have interests in the UK.

I doubt very much whether we will ever see a post by one of the latter group on a forum such as this one. There have been many such posts on the 'Northern' forums in the past (when Orams originally went to Court) and much jubilation and BIG sighs of relief when they won at one point. It all then became a sort of 'taboo' subject on the N forums - and it was obvious they didn't want anyone reading about the fears of those who might be affected. Now of course, most of them have vanished (but I would bet my socks they are reading CF and others like it).

Vaughan Williams did say in his first post "HSBC is located in 1 Agustos Sokak, Girne, on original Turkish title land." 'Original' meaning whatever you want it to mean, but accepted by most as meaning 'not GC owned.' The purpose of the first post was to make other people aware that you guys haven't really researched HSBC (or anything else) properly, as, by your own admission, you now know more than you did before thanks to me, not that I think it will do you any good.

[DT.]

Wasn't the Government, but here's what I read:

"When HSBC bought out Turkish Demirbank in 2002 and they announced they were opening branches in N. Cyprus, a senior manager from the GC central bank went to London to pressure the British Financial Services Authority to stop HSBC's operations in the north, but this one protest the greeks did not win. And they are still protesting about it"

The rules have changed now, though. HSBC stand to lose shed loads...

Homework not done again, boys?
I hate to rain on your parade lads, but HSBC is located in 1 Agustos Sokak, Girne, on original Turkish title land. They moved there from their original GC "owned" site in the high street, about 3 years ago.
How do I know this? Their landlord is my landlord and he asked me to pass a message on to you guys. It looked a bit like the Churchill salute, but the other way around.

Thanks for sharing that. How many years did they spend at the previous GC address?

You can't expect me to do your homework.
At least I spared you the embarassment and expense of trying to take them to court.

You don't know much about Cyprus law do you?

What makes you think its ok to stay in someone's property illegally and get away with it just because you don't stay in it now?

Again thanks for the info, I thought there was nothing to pin on HSBC but your landlord mate has really helped us out here.

Nice try at face saving, mate, but you'll have to do better than that.

I understand the predicament you now find yourself in. In your quest for one upmanship you've inadvertently given everyone a clear target in HSBC with information from the very landlord!

We won't talk about it anymore so as not to cause any further embarrassment or problems between you and your friend the landlord. Action however, will have to be taken.

[Gasman]

It's foolish to assume you know how much others know. As foolish as it is to blurt out EVERYTHING you know on an open forum!

[vaughanwilliams]

Wasn't the Government, but here's what I read:

"When HSBC bought out Turkish Demirbank in 2002 and they announced they were opening branches in N. Cyprus, a senior manager from the GC central bank went to London to pressure the British Financial Services Authority to stop HSBC's operations in the north, but this one protest the greeks did not win. And they are still protesting about it"

The rules have changed now, though. HSBC stand to lose shed loads...

Homework not done again, boys?
I hate to rain on your parade lads, but HSBC is located in 1 Agustos Sokak, Girne, on original Turkish title land. They moved there from their original GC "owned" site in the high street, about 3 years ago.
How do I know this? Their landlord is my landlord and he asked me to pass a message on to you guys. It looked a bit like the Churchill salute, but the other way around.

Thanks for sharing that. How many years did they spend at the previous GC address?

You can't expect me to do your homework.
At least I spared you the embarassment and expense of trying to take them to court.

You don't know much about Cyprus law do you?

What makes you think its ok to stay in someone's property illegally and get away with it just because you don't stay in it now?

Again thanks for the info, I thought there was nothing to pin on HSBC but your landlord mate has really helped us out here.

Nice try at face saving, mate, but you'll have to do better than that.

I understand the predicament you now find yourself in. In your quest for one upmanship you've inadvertently given everyone a clear target in HSBC with information from the very landlord!

We won't talk about it anymore so as not to cause any further embarrassment or problems between you and your friend the landlord. Action however, will have to be taken.

Leave it out. All you now know, that you very obviously didn't before, is that HSBC is renting on TC property, much good that may do you.

[DT.]

Wasn't the Government, but here's what I read:

"When HSBC bought out Turkish Demirbank in 2002 and they announced they were opening branches in N. Cyprus, a senior manager from the GC central bank went to London to pressure the British Financial Services Authority to stop HSBC's operations in the north, but this one protest the greeks did not win. And they are still protesting about it"

The rules have changed now, though. HSBC stand to lose shed loads...

Homework not done again, boys?
I hate to rain on your parade lads, but HSBC is located in 1 Agustos Sokak, Girne, on original Turkish title land. They moved there from their original GC "owned" site in the high street, about 3 years ago.
How do I know this? Their landlord is my landlord and he asked me to pass a message on to you guys. It looked a bit like the Churchill salute, but the other way around.

Thanks for sharing that. How many years did they spend at the previous GC address?

You can't expect me to do your homework.
At least I spared you the embarassment and expense of trying to take them to court.

You don't know much about Cyprus law do you?

What makes you think its ok to stay in someone's property illegally and get away with it just because you don't stay in it now?

Again thanks for the info, I thought there was nothing to pin on HSBC but your landlord mate has really helped us out here.

Nice try at face saving, mate, but you'll have to do better than that.

I understand the predicament you now find yourself in. In your quest for one upmanship you've inadvertently given everyone a clear target in HSBC with information from the very landlord!

We won't talk about it anymore so as not to cause any further embarrassment or problems between you and your friend the landlord. Action however, will have to be taken.

Leave it out. All you now know, that you very obviously didn't before, is that HSBC is renting on TC property, much good that may do you.

yep no worries

[EricSeans]

Wasn't the Government, but here's what I read:

"When HSBC bought out Turkish Demirbank in 2002 and they announced they were opening branches in N. Cyprus, a senior manager from the GC central bank went to London to pressure the British Financial Services Authority to stop HSBC's operations in the north, but this one protest the greeks did not win. And they are still protesting about it"

The rules have changed now, though. HSBC stand to lose shed loads...

Homework not done again, boys?
I hate to rain on your parade lads, but HSBC is located in 1 Agustos Sokak, Girne, on original Turkish title land. They moved there from their original GC "owned" site in the high street, about 3 years ago.
How do I know this? Their landlord is my landlord and he asked me to pass a message on to you guys. It looked a bit like the Churchill salute, but the other way around.

Thanks for sharing that. How many years did they spend at the previous GC address?

You can't expect me to do your homework.
At least I spared you the embarassment and expense of trying to take them to court.

Vaughan,

Is it verified TC land according to the TRNC Tapu or the RoC Land Registry? Only I reckon loads of people think they have Pre-74 title when they don't have any such thing.

[Gasman]

Is it verified TC land according to the TRNC Tapu or the RoC Land Registry? Only I reckon loads of people think they have Pre-74 title when they don't have any such thing.

Absolutely. One thing that has become very clear to me is that most of the Brits who have purchased over there haven't a clue what all this Esdegger/Exchange/Foreign/Turkish/pre 74 Turkish/ stuff means.

They believed whatever the estate agents who sold to them told them at the time.

It was said to me by a couple who bought in the Iskele area that they were shown an 'old map' by the Estate Agent - proving that all that land round there was Turkish Cypriot owned in the past! I've read stuff to the absolute contrary for that area. Estate Agents will say anything to secure a sale.

Medview was telling people there was nothing to worry about - that the land theirs was built on was not in dispute and then, at the same time, telling them that if anything untoward did happen in the future regarding it (tho it was highly unlikely) they would promise to pay them back what they paid originally. Well if there was nothing to worry about - why the need for the promise of repayment?