Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Ultimately the judgment on Apostiledes v Orams was the right one, in my view.

I look forward, though, to the day when TCs with claims in the RoC can enjoy effective remedy for their claims. Despite what some people have claimed in recent threads on this matter, TCs have been prevented from access to and recovery of their former properties. One further product of the A v O case may be, ironically, that it eases the claims by TCs in the RoC.

I also look forward to TCs finally turning on the crooked politicians, developers and estate agents who led them up the blind alley that was "exchange title" and the theft of real estate and other property.

But posters should also realise that whilst the A v O case opens a new and effective avenue of remedy, it does not necessarily open the flood gates. It will still need individual GC property owners to pursue individual actions against named individuals who have alleged to have violated their property rights (or other rights). That is, as we know, a long, often complicated, and twisted process, which invariably requires a litigant to already have some money up front to finance the whole legal action.

Hermes and Viewpoint arrests are highly, highly unlikely because what we're talking about are civil actions, not criminal actions.

Finally a voice of reason in all this madness. Thanks Copperline.
The FACT IS 3 out of the 4 GC TV channels downgraded these news as 3rd or 4rth in importance last night. Probably they were directed to do so, knowing damn well that the RoC law for the Guardian of Tc properties holds a lot of water. I am most certain that at this point the Government will not allow any flood of sueings, and it will postpone as much as it can hearings at courts.

There is one point i think is not right in your post though. All decisions will be taken by RoC courts. Then it's a matter of compliance. If the accused does not comply to the decission of the courts, his offense is no longer Civil but defaults to criminal for contempt of court decision. Then s/he is liable to arrest.

[Pyrpolizer]

I don't think we will be short of money to finance legal actions. The Church of Cyprus, for example, is a major landowner in the north and not exactly short of a few euros. Also, it only takes one targeted case to set a precedent and to deter future investors.

The threat of seizing assets is more effective than arrests. It was never Mr. Apostolides' aim to jail the Orams, but to establish his right over his property. The key point I think in all this is that the Orams' case re-affirms the legal authority of the ROC over the occupied territory and allows it to exercise its authority in Europe. An important outcome as far as I can see...

Use it if you have the balls.

What a bizarre thing to say! Are you drunk? I'm amazed after what happened this week you can doubt it. You think Greek Cypriots won't go to court to defend their rights? Where on earth did you get that impression? Have you been living on Mars lately?

Its one thing getting a piece of paper the real issue is carrying out some conrete action, arrest them or demolish the house....let see if you have the balls.

Are you really crazy VP? Of course they will do it, do you want to see it happening to be convinced? It is a matter of time and how fast or slow the RoC wants it to happen.
Stop playing the brave, there's nothing you can do.

[Tim Drayton]

Let the Brits sell their properties to Turks. I wonder how EU will blackmail them. Seize their properties in Türkiye maybe?

I don't know, but I do know that the Republic of Turkey banks which have branches in the north of Cyprus will not accept kochanis for GC property as collateral for loans, so it looks like they know something we don't.

Wrong they do, eşdeğer deeds meaning exchanged land are accepted as collateral by the majority of Turkish banks.

That is not what I know. You yourself say 'the majority', so some don't. The ones that don't must know something.

[Gasman]

That is not what I know. You yourself say 'the majority', so some don't. The ones that don't must know something.

Agree. Just like the property developers who offer free inspection trips and warn the prospective purchasers NOT to carry ANYTHING on them relating to purchasing property in TRNC when they cross at the crossings.

Why not? If they are doing nothing wrong. Because it was made ILLEGAL to do so a few years back and punishable by up to 5 yrs imprisonment if you were caught with such stuff.

Why aren't they all just more honest about it all. All this feigned innocence

[CBBB]

North’s property market in free fall

By Nathan Morley
Published on January 22, 2010

ESTATE Agents in the north have conceded that the once-booming property market is in freefall and teetering on the brink of collapse as a result of the Orams ruling.

News of the verdict spread like wildfire, leaving thousands of Britons and other Europeans reeling at the developments in London. Many, realising their property investments were no-longer cast-iron, raced to place their properties on the open market.

In an effort to calm down worried residents, the chairman of the Turkish Cypriot Chamber of Commerce Gunay Cerkez said that Britons, who are panicking at the verdict, must receive urgent guarantees - in an effort to stop them from abandoning their homes in the north.

The buying of property has almost ground to a complete halt, with estate agents struggling to survive as many home owners are concerned that they may soon face a similar fate to David and Linda Orams.

Most of the leading agencies were not even answering their phones yesterday, with all but one agent point-blank refusing to discuss the implications of the Orams case.

A saleswoman for one of the leading realty firms did however comment and warned that things would get worse for ‘everybody in the TRNC’.

“We are not selling any property - not at all. We are waiting for an announcement from the government, it would be best to call back in the future - that is the situation,” she said.

Asked if the rock-bottom prices, which have seen the value of some homes slashed by 50 per cent, would decrease even further, she said: “Yes, they certainly could, keep checking our website.”

In a sign of growing desperation, one estate agent dealing properties in Salamis and Famagusta was yesterday offering brand new apartments for just £20,000, but insisted that payments must be in sterling cash.

The same agent added that he also had luxury apartments normally priced at £49,000 but would sell them for just £25,000 each - again only for cash.

Most experts agree that the Orams ruling will probably prove to be the final nail in the coffin for the once lucrative property market, which recorded record sales after the failure of the Annan plan in 2004.

Only last month Sonar Yetkili from the Construction Contractors Union said that the British expat market was ‘over’ and sales had ground to a virtual standstill.

To compound matters further, Turkish Cypriot media has reported that up to 7,000 unfinished homes have been abandoned by builders, with experts saying half of the properties were poorly constructed or illegal.

Turkish Cypriot authorities have faced a wave of criticism in recent months from residents who complained of being ‘ripped off’ and receiving shoddily built houses.

Serden Hoca, a Turkish Cypriot member of committee which discusses the property issue at the negotiations, said that around ten thousand foreigners reside in the north, and admitted that a number of these will sell their property out of sheer panic.

Foreign property investments are estimated to have injected £1 billion into the Turkish Cypriot economy in recent years.

Meanwhile, mystery surrounds the disappearance of a popular internet message board used by British residents in the north Cyprus.

Just hours after the UK Appeals Court announced that Linda and David Orams would have to demolish their home, the internet board was flooded with concerned residents, many expressing shock at the decision.

By mid-afternoon on Tuesday the website had gone offline and theories abound on other internet sites as to the closure of the forum.

“The website is down because it was being subjected to an attack - a deliberate attempt to overload it,” wrote one forum user.

Another commented: “The website was taken down by its owners to hide the identities and photographs of members who now face claims against their property in the UK.”

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/north ... l/20100122

[Tim Drayton]

So, the following statement in an article by Mehmet Davulcu which appeared in the Star Kıbrıslı newspaper on 17.09.2009 is wrong then?

http://www.starkibris.net/index.asp?haberID=39115

Üzerinde “Türk koçanlı” yazmayan konutların da aslında KKTC devleti tarafından verilmiş bir tapusu vardır. Yani Kıbrıs Cumhuriyeti döneminden kalma Kıbrıslı Türklere ait malların tapularına “Türk koçanı” denirken, KKTC’nin verdiği tapulara “Türk koçanı değil” denmesi ve KKTC’deki kamu bankaları dahil tüm bankaların bu malları teminat olarak kabul etmemesi.

TRANSLATION:

Buildings which do not bear the inscription “Turkish title” essentially have title deeds which were issued by the TRNC state. In other words, implicit in referring to the title deeds of property belonging to Turkish Cypriots as of the Republic of Cyprus era as “Turkish title” is the referal to the deeds issued by the TRNC as “not Turkish title” and the refusal by all banks in the TRNC, including state banks, to accept these properties as security.

[Gasman]

I think someone should make it quite clear in plain English (not legalese) exactly WHO is at risk of suffering the same fate as the Orams over there.

Only yesterday I asked someone I know who has a house there if they were now very concerned. They replied that they had nothing to worry about because their house was built on 'exchange land'.

Some just don't 'geddit'.

And Estate Agents and some NC forums have compounded the problem in my view by glossing over the facts and refusing to let anyone express their genuine concerns. Seeing that as somehow being disloyal to the country they have moved to or purchased in or (more often) rocking the boat for those who just want to hide their head in the sands or want to believe they have absolutely nothing to worry about.

What I don't 'get' is this:

If the Brits in the North were so jubilant and elated and celebrating the first victory for the Orams and the estate agents were using that to reassure potential buyers - why are they now refusing to see the Orams losing their case with no right to further appeal as bad news for them?

[PushDaddy]

And to do with you that is what ????

[PushDaddy]

Exchange land is perfectly safe and there is nothing morally wrong with buying it. Turkey liberated the North from Greek oppression and the land has been exchanged for land in the South and is now legally owned by the TRNC. There is still land in the South that has not been exchanged such as the Turkish owned Larnaca Airport. Orams will not have any effect. People will still buy and it is not up to British ex-pats or holiday home owners to critices or call us pigs. It is in fact nothing to do with you what I or fellow Brits do.

[DT.]

Exchange land is perfectly safe and there is nothing morally wrong with buying it. Turkey liberated the North from Greek oppression and the land has been exchanged for land in the South and is now legally owned by the TRNC. There is still land in the South that has not been exchanged such as the Turkish owned Larnaca Airport. Orams will not have any effect. People will still buy and it is not up to British ex-pats or holiday home owners to critices or call us pigs. It is in fact nothing to do with you what I or fellow Brits do.

I'll help you out. The parts in red are going to get ripped to pieces on this forum and hopefully you will learn to add some logic and facts in your posts.

The part in green will not get bothered at all.