Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

It was apparently the 1995 amendment to the ITEM law, enacted under a DP-CTP coalition government, that opened the way for title deeds to be issued for Greek Cypriot property, so you are partly correct, Pyrpolizer.

So it was Kifeas's mate Denktash that did it.

[YFred]

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-199319-100-turkish-cypriot-winner-in-property-case.html

I know Zaman is a TR paper, but before we all get carried away, perhaps the score now stands at Sofi 1 - Apostolides 1?
Took a lot less time and didn't have to leave Cyprus for the decision.
I think this case is as, if not more, relevant than Orams.

About time the eu takes some action about the real culprits of the Cyprus problem. Long overdue in my opinion.
I would love to say "What have I been saying", but my lovely gc friends will accuse me of winging. But I will not. It was not fair was it chaps? What?
It looks as though I will get my land back from the thieving greeks without having to spend a fortune and wasting decades after all.
Party at Yfred zivania palace and all the zivania you can drink.

If you could read properly you would see the EU took no action, the RoC Government agreed to change its regulations.

Now it is Turkey's turn!

It's strange that it took 6 years for them to realise it but I guess better late then never.
What do you want Turkey to do, what's she got to do with this. If roc has a wish list, you will find talking to her may produce results where as threatening her just has the opposite effect, what?

[Tim Drayton]

It was apparently the 1995 amendment to the ITEM law, enacted under a DP-CTP coalition government, that opened the way for title deeds to be issued for Greek Cypriot property, so you are partly correct, Pyrpolizer.

Thank you very much for your search dear Tim. You are a valuable contributor to this forum.

Now that I scratched my memory you are right it was a coalition, I seem to have memory problems lately, i don't even remember where i put them on my pc

About the "abandoned" term (again from memory-I could be wrong) refers to the original law that defined as "abandoned" those before February 1975. Now why February 1975 I have no idea.

From the text of the law:

[...] Kıbrıs Türk Federe Devletinin ilan edildiği 13 Şubat 1975 tarihinde terkedilmiş bulunan veya söz konusu tarihten sonra terkedilmiş veya sahipsiz mal olarak nitelendirilen tüm taşınmaz mallar [...]

[...] all immovable property that was abandoned as of 13 February 1975 on which the Turkish Cypriot Federated State was proclaimed or has been deemed subsequent to the said date to be abandoned or unowned property [...]

[Hermes]

What do you want Turkey to do, what's she got to do with this. If roc has a wish list, you will find talking to her may produce results where as threatening her just has the opposite effect, what?

You are a joker at times, Fred. For years we talked and all we heard from Turkey is that the Cyprus problem was "solved" in 1974.

Be honest. The only reason Turkey is at the negotiating table now is because we are blocking Turkey's EU accession process. The only reason Turkey is even in talks now is because the legal and diplomatic pressure has undermined its case. The only reason Turkey is talking is because the "trnc" is going nowhere.

Of course it wants a "solution" on its terms with a puppet state in place in the north. But we are not playing ball. Besides, we are talking to the puppet Talat. You can be sure that our "wish-list" is finding its way to Ankara. It can be reduced to a few simple words. You don't need me to tell you what they are...

[YFred]

What do you want Turkey to do, what's she got to do with this. If roc has a wish list, you will find talking to her may produce results where as threatening her just has the opposite effect, what?

You are a joker at times, Fred. For years we talked and all we heard from Turkey is that the Cyprus problem was "solved" in 1974.

Be honest. The only reason Turkey is at the negotiating table now is because we are blocking Turkey's EU accession process. The only reason Turkey is even in talks now is because the legal and diplomatic pressure has undermined its case. The only reason Turkey is talking is because the "trnc" is going nowhere.

Of course it wants a "solution" on its terms with a puppet state in place in the north. But we are not playing ball. Besides, we are talking to the puppet Talat. You can be sure that our "wish-list" is finding its way to Ankara. It can be reduced to a few simple words. You don't need me to tell you what they are...

I am always honest. You are being too optimistic about the power of Cyprus. If they had power, they would block any negotiations till she pulled out. All that is required is that she opens her ports, but in fact you should fear that more than anything else.
Cyprus is in a very real danger of splitting and the GCs think they are in control and can stop it. They are wrong. The world has moved on from 74 and you guys are left there. I remember my father saying everyone will go to their homes one day. Unfortunately he was wrong and died without seeing it and so will we the way this is panning out. Unless the GCs have a rude awakening, but I suspect it is not coming any time soon.
Sorry but the truth has to be told.

[Hermes]

What do you want Turkey to do, what's she got to do with this. If roc has a wish list, you will find talking to her may produce results where as threatening her just has the opposite effect, what?

You are a joker at times, Fred. For years we talked and all we heard from Turkey is that the Cyprus problem was "solved" in 1974.

Be honest. The only reason Turkey is at the negotiating table now is because we are blocking Turkey's EU accession process. The only reason Turkey is even in talks now is because the legal and diplomatic pressure has undermined its case. The only reason Turkey is talking is because the "trnc" is going nowhere.

Of course it wants a "solution" on its terms with a puppet state in place in the north. But we are not playing ball. Besides, we are talking to the puppet Talat. You can be sure that our "wish-list" is finding its way to Ankara. It can be reduced to a few simple words. You don't need me to tell you what they are...

I am always honest. You are being too optimistic about the power of Cyprus. If they had power, they would block any negotiations till she pulled out. All that is required is that she opens her ports, but in fact you should fear that more than anything else.
Cyprus is in a very real danger of splitting and the GCs think they are in control and can stop it. They are wrong. The world has moved on from 74 and you guys are left there. I remember my father saying everyone will go to their homes one day. Unfortunately he was wrong and died without seeing it and so will we the way this is panning out. Unless the GCs have a rude awakening, but I suspect it is not coming any time soon.
Sorry but the truth has to be told.

Fred, your analysis is too pessimistic. Turkey might well decide to turn its back on the talks and believe it can split Cyprus. But this would be a self-defeating policy. It would gain them little and cost them a lot. Diplomatically, legally and strategically they would suffer. They would "keep" northern Cyprus but they would lose authority and credibility on the international stage. Never mind exposing themselves to law suits which would target Turkish assets in Europe.

It is a fine line for us to keep Turkey at the table. But ultimately, we have to believe that we are dealing with a rational opponent who understands where its interests lie. You cannot make deals with an angry belligerent adversary who wants things its way. We have managed to even things up a bit. The balance has shifted. Turkey has lost the diplomatic advantage it had after the Annan referendum of 2004. It went for broke with the Orams case and lost. It is a new reality now. Let's see if Turkey understands what is going on...

[YFred]

What do you want Turkey to do, what's she got to do with this. If roc has a wish list, you will find talking to her may produce results where as threatening her just has the opposite effect, what?

You are a joker at times, Fred. For years we talked and all we heard from Turkey is that the Cyprus problem was "solved" in 1974.

Be honest. The only reason Turkey is at the negotiating table now is because we are blocking Turkey's EU accession process. The only reason Turkey is even in talks now is because the legal and diplomatic pressure has undermined its case. The only reason Turkey is talking is because the "trnc" is going nowhere.

Of course it wants a "solution" on its terms with a puppet state in place in the north. But we are not playing ball. Besides, we are talking to the puppet Talat. You can be sure that our "wish-list" is finding its way to Ankara. It can be reduced to a few simple words. You don't need me to tell you what they are...

I am always honest. You are being too optimistic about the power of Cyprus. If they had power, they would block any negotiations till she pulled out. All that is required is that she opens her ports, but in fact you should fear that more than anything else.
Cyprus is in a very real danger of splitting and the GCs think they are in control and can stop it. They are wrong. The world has moved on from 74 and you guys are left there. I remember my father saying everyone will go to their homes one day. Unfortunately he was wrong and died without seeing it and so will we the way this is panning out. Unless the GCs have a rude awakening, but I suspect it is not coming any time soon.
Sorry but the truth has to be told.

Fred, your analysis is too pessimistic. Turkey might well decide to turn its back on the talks and believe it can split Cyprus. But this would be a self-defeating policy. It would gain them little and cost them a lot. Diplomatically, legally and strategically they would suffer. They would "keep" northern Cyprus but they would lose authority and credibility on the international stage. Never mind exposing themselves to law suits which would target Turkish assets in Europe.

It is a fine line for us to keep Turkey at the table. But ultimately, we have to believe that we are dealing with a rational opponent who understands where its interests lie. You cannot make deals with an angry belligerent adversary who wants things its way. We have managed to even things up a bit. The balance has shifted. Turkey has lost the diplomatic advantage it had after the Annan referendum of 2004. It went for broke with the Orams case and lost. It is a new reality now. Let's see if Turkey understands what is going on...

Turkey is where she wants to be and happy with it. There are more immediate dangers you are oblivious to which suddenly will materialise and the international community will choose Turkey over Cyprus. She is too powerful and she knows it.

[Hermes]

Turkey is where she wants to be and happy with it. There are more immediate dangers you are oblivious to which suddenly will materialise and the international community will choose Turkey over Cyprus. She is too powerful and she knows it.

If you are right then there is nothing to discuss. The struggle goes on...

[Malapapa]

Turkey is where she wants to be and happy with it. There are more immediate dangers you are oblivious to which suddenly will materialise and the international community will choose Turkey over Cyprus. She is too powerful and she knows it.

This may or may not be true. But do you want it to be true?

[Hermes]

Turkey is where she wants to be and happy with it. There are more immediate dangers you are oblivious to which suddenly will materialise and the international community will choose Turkey over Cyprus. She is too powerful and she knows it.

Let me expand. Overconfidence led Turkey to believe it would win the Orams case in the EU and British courts. It suffered a huge setback that has serious implications if Turkey continues its current policy on Cyprus. No-one is saying it's over. But everything is up in the air again.

Turkey is not too powerful that it can't be sued and it can't prevent the "trnc" from sinking into further isolation and ruin. It can't tell the Europeans it ought to be allowed into the EU on its terms. For sure Turkey has troops in Cyprus. But can it exercise its will over the ROC? Can it even pursue a policy in northern Cyprus when territory and property in the north are under the legal jurisdiction of ROC courts? Maybe Turkey is as powerful as you say. But is it powerful enough to get its way on Cyprus?

What exactly can Turkey do on Cyprus that will lead to recognition and economic prosperity for the north and legal and diplomatic immunity from the courts? What is this plan that Turkey is holding back? And why hasn't it used it before now?

You see, Fred, for your analysis to hold water, you must ignore the predicament that Turkey finds itself in over Cyprus. This is emphatically not where Turkey wants to be on Cyprus. The "trnc" is an albatross around Turkey's neck. It's not all going smoothly and to plan, despite what you say.