Cyprus-Forum.com

[Malapapa]

Vow...go to sleep,wake up,and find the whole world changed...

Or has it????

while I am delighted that one man has finally recieved natural justice,I am worried this will make finding a solution even more difficult...Christofias is already hailing this as a "political victory" and I think that is mistaken...This will only make The TCs and Turkey more obstinate,more suspicious of GC motives...

There is nothing political in this judgement,it is purely a win for international property law....I agree that the implications for the British refugee property "owners" in tne trnc are grave...And this will rightly put an end to land speculation in the North...But it will do nothing to facilitate a comprehensive solution...Orams will not be allowed to demolish the villa,and they will end up abandoning it..They will most likely be compensated by the trnc authorities for their loss...The property will probably revert to the trnc admin ,and they might rent it or lease it to some settler...
Those who are waiting for the trnc economy to collapse s,will also have a long wait...something that does not exist cannot collapse...The trnc economy is entirely supported by Turkey,at great expense ,and this will continue until a solution is found...Sure,the decision has opened the way for others to follow suit,and start harrassing the British settlers,but think of how long it will take in courts...And while we fiddle with this property issue,the status quo will continue without an end in sight...Those who see the Cyprus conflict simply as one based on foreign occupation and ethnic cleansing,human rights abuse etc will be disappointed in the long run when nothing really changes,as Viewpoint has already stated...
But don't let me rain on your parade now...Justice for one refugee is something to celebrate in itself...Lets say 3 cheers for Mr Apostolides,hip hip...hurray...hip hip....

Sure. A solution needs to be found where people's rights to their property is respected - or else someone will get there arse sued. Now what?

[EricSeans]

Wow! I am overcome with their concern lest the judgement affects the process! Such compassion, such altruism, how can you keep a straight face!

On a more practical level, watch as the values of genuine TC titles shoot up in value and the stolen lands fall straight downward. Serves them right, the thieves!

Sure hope so, buddy!

[BirKibrisli]

Vow...go to sleep,wake up,and find the whole world changed...

Or has it????

while I am delighted that one man has finally recieved natural justice,I am worried this will make finding a solution even more difficult...Christofias is already hailing this as a "political victory" and I think that is mistaken...This will only make The TCs and Turkey more obstinate,more suspicious of GC motives...

There is nothing political in this judgement,it is purely a win for international property law....I agree that the implications for the British refugee property "owners" in tne trnc are grave...And this will rightly put an end to land speculation in the North...But it will do nothing to facilitate a comprehensive solution...Orams will not be allowed to demolish the villa,and they will end up abandoning it..They will most likely be compensated by the trnc authorities for their loss...The property will probably revert to the trnc admin ,and they might rent it or lease it to some settler...
Those who are waiting for the trnc economy to collapse s,will also have a long wait...something that does not exist cannot collapse...The trnc economy is entirely supported by Turkey,at great expense ,and this will continue until a solution is found...Sure,the decision has opened the way for others to follow suit,and start harrassing the British settlers,but think of how long it will take in courts...And while we fiddle with this property issue,the status quo will continue without an end in sight...Those who see the Cyprus conflict simply as one based on foreign occupation and ethnic cleansing,human rights abuse etc will be disappointed in the long run when nothing really changes,as Viewpoint has already stated...
But don't let me rain on your parade now...Justice for one refugee is something to celebrate in itself...Lets say 3 cheers for Mr Apostolides,hip hip...hurray...hip hip....

Sure. A solution needs to be found where people's rights to their property is respected - or else someone will get there arse sued. Now what?

Now we have to wait and see how this judgement reflects on the negotiations and on the political landscape...If I am right in my misgivings it will make agreeing to a solution more difficult...

[Hermes]

Now we have to wait and see how this judgement reflects on the negotiations and on the political landscape...If I am right in my misgivings it will make agreeing to a solution more difficult...

I cannot see how this judgement makes things more difficult in the talks. It makes the property issue one of legal right and takes away the Turkish argument that property owners should be deprived of their rights. That is a good thing. It's only if you believe that the Greek Cypriot owners should be deprived of their rights that the talks become "difficult".

Why on earth should we discuss with Turkey a solution that deprives us of our rights? This is nonsense. I'm fed up with these spurious arguments that justice for the Greek Cypriots makes the talks "difficult". The only thing that makes talks difficult is the Turkish insistence on depriving the legal owners to the land in the north their right of return and restitution.

Restoring rights to those expelled from their homes is fundamental to a solution. Why do Turks insist that this is some kind of a loss to their side? Can Turkish Cypriots only conceive of a solution at our expense? The T/Cs need to stop thinking in terms of zero-sum games and start thinking of how they can live in peace and prosperity with the majority of citizens on this island. That will never happen as long as T/Cs insist on depriving others of their human rights. One question: why would you want to live on this island on those terms anyway?

[boulio]

or in a "united" island that is,i think the property chapter is solved and closed lets move on to security issue

[boulio]

what really suprised me today was that the british courts did not send this back to the ecj about the supposed involvment and bias of the greek judge delaying a outcome for another 12-18 months.

[B25]

Alot has been said on this thread, we all know the real meaning to this decision, so I only want to say the following;

1. Bravo Mr A, you are our hero and the whole GC community thanks you

2. Thank you billy, jerry and milti for your excellent job today, impecable.

3. Did you notice how the British court referred to Turkys entry to Cyprus as an 'INVASION' ? Priceless.

And with that good night all.

[paliometoxo]

yes b25 everywhere calls it an invasion only turkey calls rape murder and kicking people out of their homes taking them prisoners to turkey a PEACE operation

[Hermes]

On this auspicious day let us end with a reminder of what the Cyprus Court now expects. In particular, the Cyprus Court ordered that the Orams should:

Cease trespassing on the land belonging to Apostolides.

Deliver up possession of the land to Apostolides.

Pay ‘mesne profits’ (effectively, rent) to Apostolides in respect of the period of their occupation.

Knock down the villa and fencing they had built on the land.

Pay certain sums in respect of Apostolides’ costs of the proceedings.

Pay the legal fees incurred by Apostolides, regarding the London and Luxembourg proceedings.

That's it. Sweet dreams to all...

[BirKibrisli]

Now we have to wait and see how this judgement reflects on the negotiations and on the political landscape...If I am right in my misgivings it will make agreeing to a solution more difficult...

I cannot see how this judgement makes things more difficult in the talks. It makes the property issue one of legal right and takes away the Turkish argument that property owners should be deprived of their rights. That is a good thing. It's only if you believe that the Greek Cypriot owners should be deprived of their rights that the talks become "difficult".

Why on earth should we discuss with Turkey a solution that deprives us of our rights? This is nonsense. I'm fed up with these spurious arguments that justice for the Greek Cypriots makes the talks "difficult". The only thing that makes talks difficult is the Turkish insistence on depriving the legal owners to the land in the north their right of return and restitution.

Restoring rights to those expelled from their homes is fundamental to a solution. Why do Turks insist that this is some kind of a loss to their side? Can Turkish Cypriots only conceive of a solution at our expense? The T/Cs need to stop thinking in terms of zero-sum games and start thinking of how they can live in peace and prosperity with the majority of citizens on this island. That will never happen as long as T/Cs insist on depriving others of their human rights. One question: why would you want to live on this island on those terms anyway?

It will make it more difficult for two reasons:
ONE: The GC side will take this as a political decision and harden their stand on the property issue...
TWO: The TC side and Turkey will put on a brave face,but behind close door will take this as a slap in the face both from the EU and now the british Juristiction and harden their stand on property issue as well...

If Cyprus probem was only about the property issue,the right of return for all,INCLUDING THE TCS TO THE SOUTH,this decision would have helped settle the issue...But we all know it is not just about the refugees and the right of return...all you need to do is look at all the chapters we are discussing in the current negotiations to realise how complicated it will be to find a compromise to agree on...
Having said that,again,let us all rejoice that natural justice has prevailed,and take nothing away from the achievement of Mr Apostolides...