Cyprus-Forum.com

[FragnaticDeath]

there we go again....lets get past all the petty issues, the since you want turkey why dont u stay over there and dont come and work/ use our airports or doctors are tooo petty in this issue.

as rightly pointed out before, the issues is about what turkey wants and wat GCs have. but the only card turkey has is the Tc card. if GCs hold that card no matter how bitter a pill it cost them to swallow am sure it will be worth seeing the seeming 'Almighty Turkey' leave without acheiving its partitionist goals. i support a united cyprus, one state maybe with a lil power sharing formula et al. but a cyprus devoid of external influences.

As regards the flags, the flags on the mountain was put there for the sole purpose of irritating GC. a game well played by turkey, GCs react turkey misinforms TC they hate everything thats TC.

if GC can swallow a bitter pill of given the TC a really good offer am sure the bitterness will immediately become as sweet as honey when turkey finds TCs rallying against settlers and her(turkey) asking to there return to anatolia

Why don't you understand what ORACLE is saying:

The problem is not the TC but Turkey for wanting what Cyprus has. THEY WILL NEVER accept and agreement where Turkey leaves with all their troops and no more control over Cyprus. They will simply never agree to such a plan.

Today I was talking with a woman that had her husband a solider as a hostage during the war at Turkey. The only thing they gave him was some bread, water, and olives to make him more thirsty to drink more water to make him feel he ate a complete meal. then later on they were beaten with sticks burned with ciggarettes all over their body. If you want me to make any deals with such ANIMALS ( take into consideration animals at least give some remorse towards such actions ) then your a fool. Bloody under knowledged people with no ethics in their lives.

[denizaksulu]

sharing the island is not what the turks had in mind when they came to cyprus killing 20,000 gcs and then when they caused more problems to split the land in two and they continue to occupy and demand more and more rights then the majority not just equal rights but more rights

20,000? Where did you get that figure?

when the turks arrived in cyprus they killed 20,000..

i got it from history of cyprus lesson. ( taught by an australien ) books studying the subject. since i was not alive during or before the war and dont talk about it with family what it was like.

study it up on the net to you will see it.. after they arrived in cyprus what they did just because they where happy.

I think the figure of 20,000 is the figure banded about for the 1571 invasion and NOT the 1974 one.

[Paphitis]

sharing the island is not what the turks had in mind when they came to cyprus killing 20,000 gcs and then when they caused more problems to split the land in two and they continue to occupy and demand more and more rights then the majority not just equal rights but more rights

20,000? Where did you get that figure?

when the turks arrived in cyprus they killed 20,000..

i got it from history of cyprus lesson. ( taught by an australien ) books studying the subject. since i was not alive during or before the war and dont talk about it with family what it was like.

study it up on the net to you will see it.. after they arrived in cyprus what they did just because they where happy.

I think the figure of 20,000 is the figure banded about for the 1571 invasion and NOT the 1974 one.

That's correct. And the GO Church's role in this massacre will no longer be ignored. Aphrodite will avenge this treason!

[Tony-4497]

"BBF with political equality as backed and documented by the UN."

VP

In fact, it's political equality as DEFINED by the relevant UN resolutions, which means effective participation of both communities and NOT numerical equality.

In any case, please tell me if by "BBF with political equality" you understand the following (and hence agree with your leaders):

- Turkish rotational presidency with final vote on any dispute (i.e. 82% being subordinated to the 18% for X years in every term on the basis of racial/ethnic criteria)
- restrictions on the human and (especially) property rights of GCs
- right of the 2 zones to form international agreements
- right of the 2 zones to FIR
- right of the 2 zones to any sovereignty
- the 18% TCs getting 29% of land and 55% of coastline

None of the above is implied by the agreed type of solution - in fact most go completely against it.

My view is that if even one of the above is in a proposed plan, it will be rejected by GCs at referendum.

GC's ultimate, final (and yet to be approved by the GC people) sacrifice for peace is precisely BBF - which is in itself a hugely unfair solution for an 82% majority living on this island for thousands of years.

If you keep on trying to have gains beyong this, then no solution will be found. GCs will not accept a solution which is even worse than the status quo. If you think this suits you and time is on your side, think again.

[denizaksulu]

The Cyprus problem is not about the TCs.

It's about what the GCs have and what Turkey wants ...

I beg to differ O. The Cyprus problem is just that!! Greek Cyps and Turkish Cyps. Somehow the TCs must get a grip and remove Turkey from the equation. (Likewise the GC's Greece).

Come on you TC's wake up till its too late.

What dont we want? To be a Vilayet of Turkey. Open your eyes all of YOU.

[paliometoxo]

sharing the island is not what the turks had in mind when they came to cyprus killing 20,000 gcs and then when they caused more problems to split the land in two and they continue to occupy and demand more and more rights then the majority not just equal rights but more rights

20,000? Where did you get that figure?

when the turks arrived in cyprus they killed 20,000..

i got it from history of cyprus lesson. ( taught by an australien ) books studying the subject. since i was not alive during or before the war and dont talk about it with family what it was like.

study it up on the net to you will see it.. after they arrived in cyprus what they did just because they where happy.

I think the figure of 20,000 is the figure banded about for the 1571 invasion and NOT the 1974 one.

yes making it worse for the turks since there was no attacks no one did the turks anything they just attacked for no reason..

doesent matter when it happened still does not make it ok they still murderd so many thousands just for fun withotu being attacked

[denizaksulu]

sharing the island is not what the turks had in mind when they came to cyprus killing 20,000 gcs and then when they caused more problems to split the land in two and they continue to occupy and demand more and more rights then the majority not just equal rights but more rights

20,000? Where did you get that figure?

when the turks arrived in cyprus they killed 20,000..

i got it from history of cyprus lesson. ( taught by an australien ) books studying the subject. since i was not alive during or before the war and dont talk about it with family what it was like.

study it up on the net to you will see it.. after they arrived in cyprus what they did just because they where happy.

I think the figure of 20,000 is the figure banded about for the 1571 invasion and NOT the 1974 one.

yes making it worse for the turks since there was no attacks no one did the turks anything they just attacked for no reason..

doesent matter when it happened still does not make it ok they still murderd so many thousands just for fun withotu being attacked

The reasons were posted before Palio. There is always an excuse to do dastardly things. Wherever the will, there is always a way. I will try to fine my latest submission on the matter which I am sure my auntie O will object to.

[denizaksulu]

Palio, check out the links and see foryourself the other factors affecting the fate of Cyprus. Cyprus itself or Cypriots never did attack anyone (as Oracle is too keen to bring up) but the Masters of Cyprus at the time who were the Venetians DID become a nuisance to the Ottoman Empire just because where it was. (In the underbelly and right accross the trade routes which were a prize for any contemporary marine power.) These were the Ottoman Empire and the Venetians. Most of the Ottoman Navy was captained by and manned by Greeks from all over the Greek world. Even the the most famous of the 'Turkish' Admirals' Barbaros Khaireddin Pasha was Greek. He had two other brothers who were in the Ottoman navy as famous captains of ships. Its not as black and white as you would like to think it is.

Check out Joseph Nasi as well. Its interesting.


denizaksulu
vip



Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 25101
Location: A London Cypriot from Anglissidhes






Oracle wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Oracle wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
steveuk wrote:
As an outsider, i am able to have an impartial look at both points of view. The bottom line is, Turks are wrong, Greeks are right.

So you’re right, there is no point continuing this debate with you, as you are clearly bias and blinkered in your views.





I almost fell off my chair reading this...VP,now you have been told by steve from uk....Turks are Wrong and Greeks are right...100%...

ehmmm,steve???? what do you think about the Turkish Cypriots????
Are they 100% wrong as well????
What about the British??? Why did you have to abandon us,Cypriots???
Didn't you realise we were going to slit each others throats????
maybe it is all the British fault??? What do you think steve????

The British came to Cyprus to civilise us,Cypriots,but left before the job was done??? Why did you do that ,steve??? I think it is all your fault,100%!!!


Really? Wasn't it the Otto-Turks who first "sold" Cyprus?

Sometimes things really are black and white. The Ottomans were 100% wrong in invading Cyprus. The Turks are 100% wrong in invading Cyprus. The Turks are 100% wrong in occupying Cyprus.



In 1571, the Ottomans had every right to take Cyprus from the Venetians. Period. The Venetians were a pain in the Ottomans arse.


By what logic?

Why did the Ottomans, who were nomads from the East, have a right to take anybody's land away from them in these parts, and without limits?

Why didn't the Ottomans just take "Venice" if they had issue with Venetians?

Really, Deniz, your capacity to see things clearly and fairly is seriously flawed.



Logic?

Among other things, Cyprus was in the under belly of Asia Minor. A hiding place of Maltese and other christian corsairs who regularly attacked shipping which were under the protection of the Ottomans.

Ofcourse, Cyprus was then famous for its wines. Slik the Sot (the famous drunkard Ottoman sultan) Selim II wanted to get his hands on the Cyprus wine industry.

Given time, they would have attacked Venice once Vienna was conquered, but that was not to be.

Read about Josef Nasi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nasi

During the war between the Ottomans and the Republic of Venice, Nasi's negotiations with the Jewish community in Venetian-ruled Cyprus were uncovered, and, as a result, the Jewish population of Famagusta (with the exception of Jews who were natives of the city) was expelled in June 1568 (see History of the Jews in Cyprus).[7] It is believed that he intended parts of Cyprus to be a Jewish colony, and encouraged the Ottoman annexation of Cyprus in the war to that end; he was granted a coat of arms by Selim that indicated he would be given viceregal rank in that colony.[8] Nasi's relative Abraham Beneviste (Righetto Marrano) was arrested in 1570, on charges of having set fire to the Venetian Arsenal on Nasi's instigation.[9]

Maintaining contacts with William the Silent,[10] Nasi encouraged the Netherlands to revolt against Spain, a major adversary of the Ottoman Empire (the rebellion was ultimately carried out by the Union of Utrecht, as the start of the Eighty Years' War).[11] For this and other achievements, he was appointed by Selim to become the Duke of Naxos; he also later became the Count of Andros. Represented locally by one Francesco Coronello,[4] Nasi mainly ruled the Duchy from his palace of Belvedere, where he also maintained his own Hebrew printing press (kept by his wife and cousin, Doña Reyna, after Joseph's death).

[edit] Settling Tiberias
Joseph Nasi is best known to history for his


_________________
How proud I am that I am a Cypriot.






Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:14 pm

Oracle
vip



Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 17615
Location: ~ X ~






Again, by what logic does any of the above give the Ottomans "rights" to take Cyprus?

You clearly do not know the meaning of "rights" Deniz, as we have already established on another thread.

A thought for the day, for you!


_________________
"The Turkish Cypriots on the other hand exaggerated the facts to stress their justification..." Ulus Irkad






Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:44 pm

denizaksulu
vip



Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 25101
Location: A London Cypriot from Anglissidhes






Oracle wrote:
Again, by what logic does any of the above give the Ottomans "rights" to take Cyprus?

You clearly do not know the meaning of "rights" Deniz, as we have already established on another thread.

A thought for the day, for you!


Those days they were considered rights Oracle. Its called self-preservation and it can come in many disguises.

What rights did your Helenic Brothers have to invade and spread into Anatolia in 1919. Easy gain at the expense of the crumbling Otto Empire or was it winner gets it all (being part of the victorious allies.

If you bothered to read the link, you would have found out the oppressive nature of the Venetian rule. It wasnt only the GO church was it. It was also aganst the Cypriot Jews they 'sorted' out by expelling them. The Jews Like the GO's were the favoured subjects of the Ottoman Empire. They needed protection. They got it. But that comes at a price. Heavy taxes if you like. We have gone through this before but you will play your own bouzouki/agenda.


_________________
How proud I am that I am a Cypriot.






Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:48 pm

Paphitis
professor



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 6159
Location: True Cypriot, exiled with Aphrodite and awaiting the real and betrayed CYPRIOT PHOENIX TO RISE......






denizaksulu wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Again, by what logic does any of the above give the Ottomans "rights" to take Cyprus?

You clearly do not know the meaning of "rights" Deniz, as we have already established on another thread.

A thought for the day, for you!


Those days they were considered rights Oracle. Its called self-preservation and it can come in many disguises.

What rights did your Helenic Brothers have to invade and spread into Anatolia in 1919. Easy gain at the expense of the crumbling Otto Empire or was it winner gets it all (being part of the victorious allies.

If you bothered to read the link, you would have found out the oppressive nature of the Venetian rule. It wasnt only the GO church was it. It was also aganst the Cypriot Jews they 'sorted' out by expelling them. The Jews Like the GO's were the favoured subjects of the Ottoman Empire. They needed protection. They got it. But that comes at a price. Heavy taxes if you like. We have gone through this before but you will play your own bouzouki/agenda.


We have already established that the GO Church is in fact treasonous and anti Cypriot. They have supported many crimes in Cyprus, which makes them more Turk and definitely NOT Greek or Cypriot!

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27970


_________________
Prepare for the unknown, unexpected and inconceivable....

[Oracle]

there we go again....lets get past all the petty issues, the since you want turkey why dont u stay over there and dont come and work/ use our airports or doctors are tooo petty in this issue.

as rightly pointed out before, the issues is about what turkey wants and wat GCs have. but the only card turkey has is the Tc card. if GCs hold that card no matter how bitter a pill it cost them to swallow am sure it will be worth seeing the seeming 'Almighty Turkey' leave without acheiving its partitionist goals. i support a united cyprus, one state maybe with a lil power sharing formula et al. but a cyprus devoid of external influences.

As regards the flags, the flags on the mountain was put there for the sole purpose of irritating GC. a game well played by turkey, GCs react turkey misinforms TC they hate everything thats TC.

if GC can swallow a bitter pill of given the TC a really good offer am sure the bitterness will immediately become as sweet as honey when turkey finds TCs rallying against settlers and her(turkey) asking to there return to anatolia

I know where you're coming from, and perhaps it works with some kids i.e bribe them into siding with you. But, in the long term you could be storing other problems. The kids get fat with bribes and their mentality becomes one of going with whoever promises them more. They are unreliable and nobody's friend, but bred to be selfish. Isn't that why the TCs allowed themselves to be used by Turkey in the first place? Turkey promised them a state of their own and free property and they sided with Turkey. Now you are asking us to top all that and give the TCs yet more to win them back from Turkey. And what is to stop Turkey promising them the whole island next time and they betray the GCs yet again. Can't you see your strategy is a Catch 22 where we are locked forever wasting our lives bribing TCs back and forth.

Much easier solution, through education, is to teach everyone respect of property (small scale; homes and big scale; sovereignty) and real, fair and just equality. No ethnic differences polluting politics for the people ... ALL the people as independent individuals. Then we can rejoice in having good neighbours, as Fragnatic Death has pointed out.

[Oracle]

Palio, check out the links and see foryourself the other factors affecting the fate of Cyprus. Cyprus itself or Cypriots never did attack anyone (as Oracle is too keen to bring up) but the Masters of Cyprus at the time who were the Venetians DID become a nuisance to the Ottoman Empire just because where it was. ....

Deniz, how does any of that contradict the fact that Cyprus/Cypriots have never attacked and invaded any other country?

If the Ottomans and Venetians hated each other and battled for supremacy, how can that be the Cypriots' fault?

If Greeks and half-Greeks, enslaved to the Ottomans, carried out some unsavoury duties, for survival, you cannot generalise about how "lovely" the Ottomans were when they managed to go around attacking everyone, enslaving them and then forcing those slave to do more of their dirty work. Is that more honorable for the Ottomans?

Are you going to blame the African Slaves for European-Americans wiping out the Mohicans?