Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Now all you need to do is convince the TCs!

Well, there were other points that I would add, but there could be problems getting these agreed to:

1) Majority of Turkish Settlers (post 1975 migration) to be repatriated. Remaining settlers allowed on basis of (a) marriage to a Cypriot citizen, (b) Having offspring born in Cyprus, (c) renounciation of Turkish citizenship.

2) Treaty of Guarantee - Powers enjoyed by UK, Greece, and Turkey to intervene transferred to the EU (once Turkey acceeds to the EU).

3) Political parties - Those that espouse philosophies of ethnic nationalism, enosis, or taksim to be banned.

4) Seperation of Church and State. In particular, the Greek Orthrodox Church not to interfere in or influence matters of governence of Cyprus. No immunity from prosecution for any clergy - of any religion - that espouses hatred against any community, or the government, and the governement not to favor one religion over another.

The thing is, Paphitis, is that for a unitary state to work, it has to be a total cleaning of house. The above points (and the others I mentioned earlier) are what I would recommend on the basis of a unitary state being the only option.

I'm curious, how do you feel now that your points are closer to what the GC's are proposing than what the TC's?

[Paphitis]

Now all you need to do is convince the TCs!

Expat wrote:

Well, there were other points that I would add, but there could be problems getting these agreed to:

I think you will find that these points are also agreeable from the GC side.

Let's look at each point one by one.

Expat wrote:

1) Majority of Turkish Settlers (post 1975 migration) to be repatriated. Remaining settlers allowed on basis of (a) marriage to a Cypriot citizen, (b) Having offspring born in Cyprus, (c) renounciation of Turkish citizenship.

This is definitely agreeable, and you will find that Christofias has already agreed that 50,000 settlers be allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds probably similar to the criteria you mention above.

The remaining settlers would be repatriated humanely as we would not have it any other way.

Expat wrote:

2) Treaty of Guarantee - Powers enjoyed by UK, Greece, and Turkey to intervene transferred to the EU (once Turkey acceeds to the EU).

This is a big stumbling block, because the GCs can't accept any Guarantees from Greece, Turkey or UK.

However, the GCs would probably be willing to accept a UN, EU or NATO force to be stationed on the island for a fixed term.

Expat wrote:

3) Political parties - Those that espouse philosophies of ethnic nationalism, enosis, or taksim to be banned.

Agreeable as we have had quite enough from nationalists who have ruined Cyprus....

Expat wrote:

4) Seperation of Church and State. In particular, the Greek Orthrodox Church not to interfere in or influence matters of governence of Cyprus. No immunity from prosecution for any clergy - of any religion - that espouses hatred against any community, or the government, and the governement not to favor one religion over another.

I think that is also a great idea, but am not sure how this one will go. I can only assume that most GCs will agree.

Expat wrote:

The thing is, Paphitis, is that for a unitary state to work, it has to be a total cleaning of house. The above points (and the others I mentioned earlier) are what I would recommend on the basis of a unitary state being the only option.

Well it looks like that all but one of your points are agreeable from a GC point of you.

Now what happens? Will the TCs agree to your blueprint or are we pissing in the wind?

[paliometoxo]

Now all you need to do is convince the TCs!

Well, there were other points that I would add, but there could be problems getting these agreed to:

1) Majority of Turkish Settlers (post 1975 migration) to be repatriated. Remaining settlers allowed on basis of (a) marriage to a Cypriot citizen, (b) Having offspring born in Cyprus, (c) renounciation of Turkish citizenship.

2) Treaty of Guarantee - Powers enjoyed by UK, Greece, and Turkey to intervene transferred to the EU (once Turkey acceeds to the EU).

3) Political parties - Those that espouse philosophies of ethnic nationalism, enosis, or taksim to be banned.

4) Seperation of Church and State. In particular, the Greek Orthrodox Church not to interfere in or influence matters of governence of Cyprus. No immunity from prosecution for any clergy - of any religion - that espouses hatred against any community, or the government, and the governement not to favor one religion over another.

The thing is, Paphitis, is that for a unitary state to work, it has to be a total cleaning of house. The above points (and the others I mentioned earlier) are what I would recommend on the basis of a unitary state being the only option.

agreed i think these points would also be acceptable..

but the turks are pushing for two states they wont accept anything else that gives them power over the south and north and two states and use of resources they want it both ways but partioned land. like the security issue they claim eu is not trusted since they lied to turks abotu isolations they want turkey as a garantore and probably alls ettlers stay regardless of if they are with a tc or had a child born here..etc

but so far your new ways of the cy problem.. the good points and not partition i would personally accept such a solution. and i think the other members by their comments would also even the apoel fans^^

so well done on that:)

the problem all along is/was to convince turkey that this sort of solution si the best and stop being idiots

[boulio]

t/c will never go for it for the following two reasons:

1)will not accept anything were turkey is not involved(security)

2)They will claim that the other smaller communites threw their lot in with the g/c in 1960 so they should have no rights as a community in the senate or house of reps.

I think even with this plan you can still have even bi zonality and let the t/c in the north administer the state for local affairs.

[Expatkiwi]

Palio, I thank you for thinking my unitary formula has merit, but it is an extremely idealistic one to say the least. It assumes that unitary is the only option, and with the overriding sentiment in the north for either federation, confederation, or outright partition formalising, I have to be realistic. That's why partition was favored by me as other options seem to be non-starters. Partition as I see it (with my total independence favoring) would however involve items that would make the TRNC folk - not to mention your folk - distinctly uneasy:

1) Cession of TRNC territory to RoCy of Famagusta, Morphou, Lourojina Salient, Nicosia International Airport, and south coastal area of Karpass peninisula in order to bring TRNC territory to no more than 25% of the island area. RoCy to cede to TRNC strip of territory to join the Erenkoy exclave to TRNC.

2) Nicosia old city to be declared an open area for both countries. All TRNC and RoCy government facilities to be removed from the old city.

3) Removal of all Turkish and Greek Armed Forces and the UNICYP forces in Cyprus.

4) Cross-Accreditation of all embassies in Nicosia to both countries. Embassies of both Cypriot states to be located inside the Old City.

5) Total cession of all former TC lands south of the border to RoCy, with equivilent amount of former GC lands north of the border ceded to TRNC, with the remainder compenated to the RoCy by the TRNC.

6) No Cypriot country to be annexed - or to annex itself - to any other country, except with each other upon mutual agreement.

7) Free Trade between both countries and unrestricted movement between both countries by their citizens. Euro to be common currency of both countries.

8 ) No objection by RoCy to TRNC membership in international organizations.

9) TRNC to rename itself "Republic of North Cyprus" in order not to imply association with any other country.

Needless to say, all this would be a non-starter as well...

[Paphitis]

Palio, I thank you for thinking my unitary formula has merit, but it is an extremely idealistic one to say the least. It assumes that unitary is the only option, and with the overriding sentiment in the north for either federation, confederation, or outright partition formalising, I have to be realistic. That's why partition was favored by me as other options seem to be non-starters. Partition as I see it (with my total independence favoring) would however involve items that would make the TRNC folk - not to mention your folk - distinctly uneasy:

1) Cession of TRNC territory to RoCy of Famagusta, Morphou, Lourojina Salient, Nicosia International Airport, and south coastal area of Karpass peninisula in order to bring TRNC territory to no more than 25% of the island area. RoCy to cede to TRNC strip of territory to join the Erenkoy exclave to TRNC.

2) Nicosia old city to be declared an open area for both countries. All TRNC and RoCy government facilities to be removed from the old city.

3) Removal of all Turkish and Greek Armed Forces and the UNICYP forces in Cyprus.

4) Cross-Accreditation of all embassies in Nicosia to both countries. Embassies of both Cypriot states to be located inside the Old City.

5) Total cession of all former TC lands south of the border to RoCy, with equivilent amount of former GC lands north of the border ceded to TRNC, with the remainder compenated to the RoCy by the TRNC.

6) No Cypriot country to be annexed - or to annex itself - to any other country, except with each other upon mutual agreement.

7) Free Trade between both countries and unrestricted movement between both countries by their citizens. Euro to be common currency of both countries.

8 ) No objection by RoCy to TRNC membership in international organizations.

9) TRNC to rename itself "Republic of North Cyprus" in order not to imply association with any other country.

Needless to say, all this would be a non-starter as well...

After all your progress, you had to let yourself down with the above!

None of the above would be acceptable by the GCs. There is no way I'm afraid, so I guess the status quo will continue....Too bad!

[Expatkiwi]

After all your progress, you had to let yourself down with the above!

None of the above would be acceptable by the GCs. There is no way I'm afraid, so I guess the status quo will continue....Too bad!

That's what I thought. So what alternatives are there if the unitary option is unacceptable to the north and the partition option is unacceptable to the south?

[boulio]

your plan can be implemented as a bbf

[Paphitis]

After all your progress, you had to let yourself down with the above!

None of the above would be acceptable by the GCs. There is no way I'm afraid, so I guess the status quo will continue....Too bad!

That's what I thought. So what alternatives are there if the unitary option is unacceptable to the north and the partition option is unacceptable to the south?

I already told you. The options are as follows:
1) A unitary state or a just and viable BBF (Federation),
2) Status quo, or
3) Partition under certain conditions and where land distribution and coastline are no more than what the TCs originally owned (18%) as per the British established RoC Land Titles Office, and the "northern state" and Turkey never attaining EU admission.

Option 3 is the least favored of all the 3 options, and so even this would probably not be acceptable to the majority. It would also be a disaster for peace and stability within the region.

[Malapapa]

Now all you need to do is convince the TCs!

Well, there were other points that I would add, but there could be problems getting these agreed to:

1) Majority of Turkish Settlers (post 1975 migration) to be repatriated. Remaining settlers allowed on basis of (a) marriage to a Cypriot citizen, (b) Having offspring born in Cyprus, (c) renounciation of Turkish citizenship.

2) Treaty of Guarantee - Powers enjoyed by UK, Greece, and Turkey to intervene transferred to the EU (once Turkey acceeds to the EU).

3) Political parties - Those that espouse philosophies of ethnic nationalism, enosis, or taksim to be banned.

4) Seperation of Church and State. In particular, the Greek Orthrodox Church not to interfere in or influence matters of governence of Cyprus. No immunity from prosecution for any clergy - of any religion - that espouses hatred against any community, or the government, and the governement not to favor one religion over another.

The thing is, Paphitis, is that for a unitary state to work, it has to be a total cleaning of house. The above points (and the others I mentioned earlier) are what I would recommend on the basis of a unitary state being the only option.

Goodness me, Expat. The above (aside from continued guarantees from Britain, Turkey and Greece) and your previous 12 point plan are eminently sensible. Are you sure wife isn't logging in on your behalf to try and restore her husband's credibility?

You do realise that Viewpoint - who'd rather make his wife a widow and children orphans than accept emergency medical treatment in the free areas - won't be your friend any more. Perhaps not much of a loss, either for you or for his poor family.