Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Actually, Popsicle... There is a way that I think a unitary Cypriot state could (and I emphasise COULD) work:

1. All disputed property restoration based on pre-December 1963 ownership.
2. No foreign armed forces permitted in Cyprus, and British cession of the SBA's.
3. House of Representatives voting based on overall population distribution.
4. Senate voting based on community makeup. All four major communities (Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Marionite) have equal number of senators.
5. The President and Vice President elected by the House of Representatives and endorsed by the Senate.
6. Entrenched constitutional clause forbidding any annexation (in whole or part) to any other country.
7. Affirmative Action policies in employment to ensure no discriminationatory practices.
8. Encouragement of English as the language of use rather than Greek or Turkish by the Government, President and Vice-President in order not to show any community favoritism.
9. Only Cypriot holidays to be officially recognized and removal of the official status of the Greek and Turkish flags from the constitution.
10. National anthem to be unique. No official useage of either the Greek or Turkish National Anthem.
11. Dual nationality/citizenship not to be permitted.
12. Interim step of a EU police force and justice ministry for the first ten years.

Probably not a hope in Hell of such a thing happening, but this is my view nonetheless.

Deal!

Ask you're mate VP now if he'll accept it and then come talk to me about motives.

We're 82% majority of the population and I'll be happy with a senate of 4 equal communities.

[Expatkiwi]

i edited and pointed out i dont agree with number 8 but i agree with the rest, sensible and fair solution to all.

I'm not saying that Turkish and Greek should be dropped as official languages, but that the Cypriot government use English as their lingua franca so that THEY would appear to be not favoring either side.

In any case, this unitary solution would not be seriously brought up because the Turkish Cypriot authorities would not accept it. There is not trust between the sides to make such a scenario work.

[Paphitis]

Actually, Popsicle... There is a way that I think a unitary Cypriot state could (and I emphasise COULD) work:

1. All disputed property restoration based on pre-December 1963 ownership.
2. No foreign armed forces permitted in Cyprus, and British cession of the SBA's.
3. House of Representatives voting based on overall population distribution.
4. Senate voting based on community makeup. All four major communities (Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Marionite) have equal number of senators.
5. The President and Vice President elected by the House of Representatives and endorsed by the Senate.
6. Entrenched constitutional clause forbidding any annexation (in whole or part) to any other country.
7. Affirmative Action policies in employment to ensure no discriminationatory practices.
8. Encouragement of English as the language of use rather than Greek or Turkish by the Government, President and Vice-President in order not to show any community favoritism.
9. Only Cypriot holidays to be officially recognized and removal of the official status of the Greek and Turkish flags from the constitution.
10. National anthem to be unique. No official useage of either the Greek or Turkish National Anthem.
11. Dual nationality/citizenship not to be permitted.
12. Interim step of a EU police force and justice ministry for the first ten years.

Probably not a hope in Hell of such a thing happening, but this is my view nonetheless.

Now that wasn't so hard now was it Expat?

Your proposal above, is very sensible, and an example of a Democratic system of Governance that would work.

More or less, the GC side has been proposing such a solution all along, with the added bonus of offering the TCs an extra concession such as a True BBF or Federated nation where the TCs will be in charge of their own administrative area, with their own State Police force, and judiciary.

Even that is rejected because Turkey prefers a Confederacy, which will make it easy for her to annex a portion of Cyprus down the track. Turkey also demands non proportional representation, citizenship rights for all Turkish citizens, control of the Cypriot continental shelf, intervention rights and control of the Cypriot FIR.

So now you can understand which side is being unreasonable.

I think your plan is very sensible, and it is a viable solution.

Let's look at each point one by one:

1. All disputed property restoration based on pre-December 1963 ownership.

Great idea - the GC side does in actual fact recognize TC property rights as we speak and has set up a property trust which is responsible for protecting lands owned by TCs.

2. No foreign armed forces permitted in Cyprus, and British cession of the SBA's.

Fantastic idea!

3. House of Representatives voting based on overall population distribution.

Fantastic idea!

4. Senate voting based on community makeup. All four major communities (Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Marionite) have equal number of senators.

Fantastic yet again!

5. The President and Vice President elected by the House of Representatives and endorsed by the Senate.

Fantastic idea!

6. Entrenched constitutional clause forbidding any annexation (in whole or part) to any other country.

Fantastic idea!

Perhaps a constitutional Bill of Rights can also protect the rights of each citizen.

7. Affirmative Action policies in employment to ensure no discriminationatory practices.

Fantastic idea!

8. Encouragement of English as the language of use rather than Greek or Turkish by the Government, President and Vice-President in order not to show any community favoritism.

I don't have a problem with this either.

Bear in mind, that most GCs are already excellent English speakers as English is in fact already encouraged at school, followed by French and German.

Furthermore, English is already an official language of the RoC!

9. Only Cypriot holidays to be officially recognized and removal of the official status of the Greek and Turkish flags from the constitution.

No problem with this...

10. National anthem to be unique. No official useage of either the Greek or Turkish National Anthem.

Great idea!

11. Dual nationality/citizenship not to be permitted.

I am a dual citizen, but given the fact that Turkey is demanding citizenship rights for all Turks around the world, then I will be quite happy to give up my RoC citizenship if this were outlawed, in the hope that this will prevent 70,000,000 also holding dual Cypriot citizenship...

Agreeable!

12. Interim step of a EU police force and justice ministry for the first ten years.

Once again, this is agreeable!

Now all you need to do is convince the TCs!

[denizaksulu]

Actually, Popsicle... There is a way that I think a unitary Cypriot state could (and I emphasise COULD) work:

1. All disputed property restoration based on pre-December 1963 ownership.
2. No foreign armed forces permitted in Cyprus, and British cession of the SBA's.
3. House of Representatives voting based on overall population distribution.
4. Senate voting based on community makeup. All four major communities (Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Marionite) have equal number of senators.
5. The President and Vice President elected by the House of Representatives and endorsed by the Senate.
6. Entrenched constitutional clause forbidding any annexation (in whole or part) to any other country.
7. Affirmative Action policies in employment to ensure no discriminationatory practices.
8. Encouragement of English as the language of use rather than Greek or Turkish by the Government, President and Vice-President in order not to show any community favoritism.
9. Only Cypriot holidays to be officially recognized and removal of the official status of the Greek and Turkish flags from the constitution.
10. National anthem to be unique. No official useage of either the Greek or Turkish National Anthem.
11. Dual nationality/citizenship not to be permitted.
12. Interim step of a EU police force and justice ministry for the first ten years.

Probably not a hope in Hell of such a thing happening, but this is my view nonetheless.

Deal!

Ask you're mate VP now if he'll accept it and then come talk to me about motives.

We're 82% majority of the population and I'll be happy with a senate of 4 equal communities.

Why four communities. I reckon there are more British expats than there are Armenians and Maronites put together. Most of them might be qualified to have their own community.

[Paphitis]

Actually, Popsicle... There is a way that I think a unitary Cypriot state could (and I emphasise COULD) work:

1. All disputed property restoration based on pre-December 1963 ownership.
2. No foreign armed forces permitted in Cyprus, and British cession of the SBA's.
3. House of Representatives voting based on overall population distribution.
4. Senate voting based on community makeup. All four major communities (Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Marionite) have equal number of senators.
5. The President and Vice President elected by the House of Representatives and endorsed by the Senate.
6. Entrenched constitutional clause forbidding any annexation (in whole or part) to any other country.
7. Affirmative Action policies in employment to ensure no discriminationatory practices.
8. Encouragement of English as the language of use rather than Greek or Turkish by the Government, President and Vice-President in order not to show any community favoritism.
9. Only Cypriot holidays to be officially recognized and removal of the official status of the Greek and Turkish flags from the constitution.
10. National anthem to be unique. No official useage of either the Greek or Turkish National Anthem.
11. Dual nationality/citizenship not to be permitted.
12. Interim step of a EU police force and justice ministry for the first ten years.

Probably not a hope in Hell of such a thing happening, but this is my view nonetheless.

Deal!

Ask you're mate VP now if he'll accept it and then come talk to me about motives.

We're 82% majority of the population and I'll be happy with a senate of 4 equal communities.

Why four communities. I reckon there are more British expats than there are Armenians and Maronites put together. Most of them might be qualified to have their own community.

Most Brits are only permanent residents and are NOT citizens.

But in any case, Brits who are citizens can run for high office if they want to, but being given community status is quite absurd and things will spiral out of control since the Russian, Sri Lankan, Indian, and Pakistani community will also be entitled to the same.

Let's just keep it simple, and allocate community status to the indigenous Cypriots such as GC, TC, AC, MC and LCs only as far as representation within the Senate is concerned and only as an added safeguard to minority rights as EQUAL citizens of Cyprus.

[miltiades]

Actually, Popsicle... There is a way that I think a unitary Cypriot state could (and I emphasise COULD) work:

1. All disputed property restoration based on pre-December 1963 ownership.
2. No foreign armed forces permitted in Cyprus, and British cession of the SBA's.
3. House of Representatives voting based on overall population distribution.
4. Senate voting based on community makeup. All four major communities (Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Marionite) have equal number of senators.
5. The President and Vice President elected by the House of Representatives and endorsed by the Senate.
6. Entrenched constitutional clause forbidding any annexation (in whole or part) to any other country.
7. Affirmative Action policies in employment to ensure no discriminationatory practices.
8. Encouragement of English as the language of use rather than Greek or Turkish by the Government, President and Vice-President in order not to show any community favoritism.
9. Only Cypriot holidays to be officially recognized and removal of the official status of the Greek and Turkish flags from the constitution.
10. National anthem to be unique. No official useage of either the Greek or Turkish National Anthem.
11. Dual nationality/citizenship not to be permitted.
12. Interim step of a EU police force and justice ministry for the first ten years.

Probably not a hope in Hell of such a thing happening, but this is my view nonetheless.

Deal!

Ask you're mate VP now if he'll accept it and then come talk to me about motives.

We're 82% majority of the population and I'll be happy with a senate of 4 equal communities.

Why four communities. I reckon there are more British expats than there are Armenians and Maronites put together. Most of them might be qualified to have their own community.

How about us ..proper Charlies !

[denizaksulu]

Actually, Popsicle... There is a way that I think a unitary Cypriot state could (and I emphasise COULD) work:

1. All disputed property restoration based on pre-December 1963 ownership.
2. No foreign armed forces permitted in Cyprus, and British cession of the SBA's.
3. House of Representatives voting based on overall population distribution.
4. Senate voting based on community makeup. All four major communities (Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Marionite) have equal number of senators.
5. The President and Vice President elected by the House of Representatives and endorsed by the Senate.
6. Entrenched constitutional clause forbidding any annexation (in whole or part) to any other country.
7. Affirmative Action policies in employment to ensure no discriminationatory practices.
8. Encouragement of English as the language of use rather than Greek or Turkish by the Government, President and Vice-President in order not to show any community favoritism.
9. Only Cypriot holidays to be officially recognized and removal of the official status of the Greek and Turkish flags from the constitution.
10. National anthem to be unique. No official useage of either the Greek or Turkish National Anthem.
11. Dual nationality/citizenship not to be permitted.
12. Interim step of a EU police force and justice ministry for the first ten years.

Probably not a hope in Hell of such a thing happening, but this is my view nonetheless.

Deal!

Ask you're mate VP now if he'll accept it and then come talk to me about motives.

We're 82% majority of the population and I'll be happy with a senate of 4 equal communities.

Why four communities. I reckon there are more British expats than there are Armenians and Maronites put together. Most of them might be qualified to have their own community.

Most Brits are only permanent residents and are NOT citizens.

But in any case, Brits who are citizens can run for high office if they want to, but being given community status is quite absurd and things will spiral out of control since the Russian, Sri Lankan, Indian, and Pakistani community will also be entitled to the same.

Let's just keep it simple, and allocate community status to the indigenous Cypriots such as GC, TC, AC, MC and LCs only as far as representation within the Senate is concerned and only as an added safeguard to minority rights as EQUAL citizens of Cyprus.

That was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Paphitis.

But we talk of communities as opposed to the Greek sectors or Turkish sectors of towns. Had there been proper integration years ago, like there was in villages without the sectors, I dont think we would have the problem we had today. As I recal the 1963 fingy errupted on the question of the 'separate' municipalities.
Oh well. No point crying over spilt milk.

[Paphitis]

Actually, Popsicle... There is a way that I think a unitary Cypriot state could (and I emphasise COULD) work:

1. All disputed property restoration based on pre-December 1963 ownership.
2. No foreign armed forces permitted in Cyprus, and British cession of the SBA's.
3. House of Representatives voting based on overall population distribution.
4. Senate voting based on community makeup. All four major communities (Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Marionite) have equal number of senators.
5. The President and Vice President elected by the House of Representatives and endorsed by the Senate.
6. Entrenched constitutional clause forbidding any annexation (in whole or part) to any other country.
7. Affirmative Action policies in employment to ensure no discriminationatory practices.
8. Encouragement of English as the language of use rather than Greek or Turkish by the Government, President and Vice-President in order not to show any community favoritism.
9. Only Cypriot holidays to be officially recognized and removal of the official status of the Greek and Turkish flags from the constitution.
10. National anthem to be unique. No official useage of either the Greek or Turkish National Anthem.
11. Dual nationality/citizenship not to be permitted.
12. Interim step of a EU police force and justice ministry for the first ten years.

Probably not a hope in Hell of such a thing happening, but this is my view nonetheless.

Deal!

Ask you're mate VP now if he'll accept it and then come talk to me about motives.

We're 82% majority of the population and I'll be happy with a senate of 4 equal communities.

Why four communities. I reckon there are more British expats than there are Armenians and Maronites put together. Most of them might be qualified to have their own community.

Most Brits are only permanent residents and are NOT citizens.

But in any case, Brits who are citizens can run for high office if they want to, but being given community status is quite absurd and things will spiral out of control since the Russian, Sri Lankan, Indian, and Pakistani community will also be entitled to the same.

Let's just keep it simple, and allocate community status to the indigenous Cypriots such as GC, TC, AC, MC and LCs only as far as representation within the Senate is concerned and only as an added safeguard to minority rights as EQUAL citizens of Cyprus.

That was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Paphitis.

But we talk of communities as opposed to the Greek sectors or Turkish sectors of towns. Had there been proper integration years ago, like there was in villages without the sectors, I dont think we would have the problem we had today. As I recal the 1963 fingy errupted on the question of the 'separate' municipalities.
Oh well. No point crying over spilt milk.

You are correct Deniz.

Which makes it most ideal to do away with separate communities all together, so that we can get back to basics where everyone is just Cypriot and equal. I don't see the TCs agreeing to anything like that, which is a big shame.

[paliometoxo]

i edited and pointed out i dont agree with number 8 but i agree with the rest, sensible and fair solution to all.

I'm not saying that Turkish and Greek should be dropped as official languages, but that the Cypriot government use English as their lingua franca so that THEY would appear to be not favoring either side.

In any case, this unitary solution would not be seriously brought up because the Turkish Cypriot authorities would not accept it. There is not trust between the sides to make such a scenario work.

i dont believe that point is so important but wouldent apose to it..

the rest i think is very good and if there was to ever be such a plan or if those points where int he anan i think most would of accepted.

[Expatkiwi]

Now all you need to do is convince the TCs!

Well, there were other points that I would add, but there could be problems getting these agreed to:

1) Majority of Turkish Settlers (post 1975 migration) to be repatriated. Remaining settlers allowed on basis of (a) marriage to a Cypriot citizen, (b) Having offspring born in Cyprus, (c) renounciation of Turkish citizenship.

2) Treaty of Guarantee - Powers enjoyed by UK, Greece, and Turkey to intervene transferred to the EU (once Turkey acceeds to the EU).

3) Political parties - Those that espouse philosophies of ethnic nationalism, enosis, or taksim to be banned.

4) Seperation of Church and State. In particular, the Greek Orthrodox Church not to interfere in or influence matters of governence of Cyprus. No immunity from prosecution for any clergy - of any religion - that espouses hatred against any community, or the government, and the governement not to favor one religion over another.

The thing is, Paphitis, is that for a unitary state to work, it has to be a total cleaning of house. The above points (and the others I mentioned earlier) are what I would recommend on the basis of a unitary state being the only option.