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Turkey's Proposals

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:34 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Malapapa wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Malapapa wrote:I think it's incredibly revealing that the "average TC" would brazenly sacrifice his own well-being in this way - and hence (and far worse) the well-being of those closest to him, those dependent on him - who are given no say in the matter.

It reveals, quite starkly, your sick mentality and why it's probably best to keep you at arms length, in the open prison you've constructed for yourselves.


For some TCs there are things worse than death,MP...

To depend on the kindness of the GCs is ONE of them...

If you really want to understand their mentality,open your mind, and go and study the 1955-74 period of our recent history... :wink:


Having access to a defibrillator during a cardiac arrest isn't "worse than death" but the difference between life and death. You're not depending on kindness from a perceived enemy but on state-of-the-art medical equipment; equipment which may not necessarily be to hand in the north, to prevent your wife becoming a widow, your children orphans.

I can't believe you're even trying to justify Viewpoint's mentality; and point to a period two generations ago to do so.


I am not justifying Viewpoint's mentality,I am just telling you that it is not only confined to VP...And if you are really curious as to why some TCs feel that way,I am pointing you in the right direction...But it is easier to dismiss people as mad than try to understand where they are coming from... :roll:


Bir they do not want to know nor do they want to learn, we have doctors and equipment in the TRNC, the TCs that come to the south only go there for free hand outs which the "RoC" is oblidged to give otherwise it could not cliam to represent all the people of this island.
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Postby Malapapa » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:23 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Having access to a defibrillator during a cardiac arrest isn't "worse than death" but the difference between life and death. You're not depending on kindness from a perceived enemy but on state-of-the-art medical equipment; equipment which may not necessarily be to hand in the north, to prevent your wife becoming a widow, your children orphans.

I can't believe you're even trying to justify Viewpoint's mentality; and point to a period two generations ago to do so.


I am not justifying Viewpoint's mentality,I am just telling you that it is not only confined to VP...And if you are really curious as to why some TCs feel that way,I am pointing you in the right direction...


Thanks. It's his poor widow and orphans who would need an explanation, not me.

BirKibrisli wrote:But it is easier to dismiss people as mad than try to understand where they are coming from... :roll:


I may understand where people are coming from but that doesn't mean that my view of their mentality changes.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:47 pm

Malapapa wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Having access to a defibrillator during a cardiac arrest isn't "worse than death" but the difference between life and death. You're not depending on kindness from a perceived enemy but on state-of-the-art medical equipment; equipment which may not necessarily be to hand in the north, to prevent your wife becoming a widow, your children orphans.

I can't believe you're even trying to justify Viewpoint's mentality; and point to a period two generations ago to do so.


I am not justifying Viewpoint's mentality,I am just telling you that it is not only confined to VP...And if you are really curious as to why some TCs feel that way,I am pointing you in the right direction...


Thanks. It's his poor widow and orphans who would need an explanation, not me.

BirKibrisli wrote:But it is easier to dismiss people as mad than try to understand where they are coming from... :roll:


I may understand where people are coming from but that doesn't mean that my view of their mentality changes.


Get over it we do not need the GC south for anything nor do you need us, over 30 of being seperated clearly shows that we can do without each other.
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Postby Malapapa » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:58 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Get over it


:roll: You won't be there to say that to your widow and orphans. As for me, there's nothing to get over, sicko.

Viewpoint wrote:we do not need the GC south for anything nor do you need us, over 30 of being seperated clearly shows that we can do without each other.


There's just the small matter of all the land belonging to displaced people to be returned. I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with you.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:19 pm

Malapapa wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Get over it


:roll: You won't be there to say that to your widow and orphans. As for me, there's nothing to get over, sicko.

Viewpoint wrote:we do not need the GC south for anything nor do you need us, over 30 of being seperated clearly shows that we can do without each other.


There's just the small matter of all the land belonging to displaced people to be returned. I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with you.


Your the sicko for thinking people have to use the GC south for emergency medical treatment, we have trained doctors and medical equipment on a par with yours plus we have Turkey and all the world as backup, all those that come there are taking the carrot you dangle because you are forced to do so remember your claim you represent all "Cypriots"...then you have to do exactly that.

Go to the ECHR like you have been doing maybe they can get you your land back but as far as I am concerned that will only be possible if we agree a comprehensive solution.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:00 am

Malapapa wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Malapapa wrote:Having access to a defibrillator during a cardiac arrest isn't "worse than death" but the difference between life and death. You're not depending on kindness from a perceived enemy but on state-of-the-art medical equipment; equipment which may not necessarily be to hand in the north, to prevent your wife becoming a widow, your children orphans.

I can't believe you're even trying to justify Viewpoint's mentality; and point to a period two generations ago to do so.


I am not justifying Viewpoint's mentality,I am just telling you that it is not only confined to VP...And if you are really curious as to why some TCs feel that way,I am pointing you in the right direction...


Thanks. It's his poor widow and orphans who would need an explanation, not me.

BirKibrisli wrote:But it is easier to dismiss people as mad than try to understand where they are coming from... :roll:


I may understand where people are coming from but that doesn't mean that my view of their mentality changes.


If you really appreciate what they have been through,and the trauma which they suffered,you will understand their mentality...And perhaps show some empathy...Since you haven't I can only conclude you have no real appreciation of their pain,suffering and loss...(And please don't remind me of the GC pain and suffering,I know all about it...That does not change anything we are talking about here...)
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Postby Expatkiwi » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 am

This article appeared in Hurriyet. It makes for interesting reading on the differences between the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot proposals:

Hurriyet wrote:Greek Cypriot paper

Sunday, January 17, 2010

YUSUF KANLI

If I am to make a two-sentence summary of the 13-page latest Greek Cypriot “proposals” on “Governance and Power Sharing” chapter of the Cyprus talks, I must say unlike the Turkish Cypriot proposals, it contained nothing new and indeed it is nothing further than a compilation of what has been said so far either behind the closed doors or publicly.

The first stress in the package is on the “single sovereignty” of the united republic to be established which “emanates from the people of Cyprus.” That is right from the start there is an attempt to ignore the existence of the two self-administering democracies of two peoples, two different ethnicities, cultures and religions, though in the sentence that follows there is an acknowledgement of the principle of equality of the two communities with an explanation that equality did not mean “equal numerical participation” in all federal government branches.

The paper, dated Jan. 11 but delivered by President Demetris Christofias to his Turkish Cypriot counterpart Mehmet Ali Talat on Jan. 12, on the second day of the intensified talks, unlike the Turkish Cypriot set of proposals that call for a relatively weaker central governance with residual powers resting with the two constituent administrations, suggests creation of a federation with a very strong central government as if the aim is to establish a unitary state with two communities with certain degree of autonomy as regards internal affairs. The fundamental stress of the paper is on “single sovereignty, one state, one citizenship.”

As regards competences of the federal government, the proposal underlines that excluding the right to conclude agreements on cultural and commercial matters the two federated units will have no competence in foreign relations. They will not have defense as a competence either. The central federal government, however, has all the competencies from external relations, EU affairs, defense policy to meteorology, regulatory high boards, finance, natural resources, aviation, navigation, communications, internal security, federal justice, labor rights, intellectual property, antiquities, protection of family and such. Contrary to the Turkish Cypriot proposals that call separate Flight Information Regions under one federal aviation authority, the Greek Cypriot paper underlines that the federal republic should have only one FIR.

As regards external ties, the paper, like the Turkish Cypriot proposals, call for “special ties” with Greece and Turkey in a manner respecting the balance established by the 1960 Foundation Agreement and to accord the two countries the “most favored nation” status “to the extent this is compatible with the obligations” of the Federal Republic of Cyprus “as a member of the European Union.” While the two constituent states may appoint representatives on commercial and cultural matters, such representations must be accredited as part of the diplomatic missions of the federal government. Furthermore, any commercial or cultural deal that the two constituent states might want to conclude should not cause prejudice to the federal state, government or federated units and must be compatible with EU membership of the island. In any case, such foreign contacts of the two federated “units” must be done through the federal external affairs ministry.

The Greek Cypriot paper agrees as well on the new republic having a two-chamber legislature. At the senate the two federated “units” will have “equal representation” while at the lower chamber or the House of Representatives “there will be a minimum representation of 25 percent for each federated unit.” Each chamber will elect a president and a vice-president, one from each federated “unit” and presidents of the two chambers shall never ever come from the same community. No decision can be adopted without at least 25 percent of senators from each of the two federated “units” are present and voting, while qualified quorum [required for amendment of the constitution or laws to be defined in the constitution] will be presence and voting in Parliament of at least two-fifths of senators from each community. Representation on both houses will be on the basis of permanent residence, but if Turkish Cypriots agree that there will be no limitation of the right of settlement, the paper says Greek Cypriots are willing to discuss communal representation as demanded by Turkish Cypriots.

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Postby Malapapa » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:14 am

Viewpoint wrote:Your the sicko for thinking people have to use the GC south for emergency medical treatment,


Don't talk rot. I don't think that. I described a specific scenario to illicit some information about you. And what I illicited was disturbing.

Viewpoint wrote:we have trained doctors and medical equipment on a par with yours plus we have Turkey and all the world as backup, all those that come there are taking the carrot you dangle because you are forced to do so remember your claim you represent all "Cypriots"...then you have to do exactly that.


Except for you because you'd rather make your wife a widow.

Viewpoint wrote:Go to the ECHR like you have been doing maybe they can get you your land back but as far as I am concerned that will only be possible if we agree a comprehensive solution.


Thanks and we don't need permission, nor agreement to secure justice.
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Postby Malapapa » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:15 am

Viewpoint wrote:Your the sicko for thinking people have to use the GC south for emergency medical treatment,


Don't talk rot. I don't think that. I described a specific scenario to illicit some information about you. And what I illicited was disturbing.

Viewpoint wrote:we have trained doctors and medical equipment on a par with yours plus we have Turkey and all the world as backup, all those that come there are taking the carrot you dangle because you are forced to do so remember your claim you represent all "Cypriots"...then you have to do exactly that.


Except for you because you'd rather make your wife a widow.

Viewpoint wrote:Go to the ECHR like you have been doing maybe they can get you your land back but as far as I am concerned that will only be possible if we agree a comprehensive solution.


Thanks but neither permission, nor agreement from you is needed to secure justice.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:36 pm

Malapapa wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Your the sicko for thinking people have to use the GC south for emergency medical treatment,


Don't talk rot. I don't think that. I described a specific scenario to illicit some information about you. And what I illicited was disturbing.

Viewpoint wrote:we have trained doctors and medical equipment on a par with yours plus we have Turkey and all the world as backup, all those that come there are taking the carrot you dangle because you are forced to do so remember your claim you represent all "Cypriots"...then you have to do exactly that.


Except for you because you'd rather make your wife a widow.

Viewpoint wrote:Go to the ECHR like you have been doing maybe they can get you your land back but as far as I am concerned that will only be possible if we agree a comprehensive solution.


Thanks but neither permission, nor agreement from you is needed to secure justice.


Secure what ever you want without a solution and the TCs support you will get jack shit.
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