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How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby insan » Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:24 pm

AKEL still keep the same attitude towards GC right wing and TC right wing....

The below articles give us lots of clues regarding AKELs perspective on Enosis and right wing...


One everyday
2003-07-10 | Ηaravgi | ΜαÏ￾ίας ΦÏ￾άγκου

There is no room for all of us in the condemnation of the double crime

You are right, you gentlemen of the Democratic Coalition (DISY). There is no room for you in this rally. You are massively ‘present’ at the annual memorial service of Cyprus’ destroyer, you ask to exonerate Grivas as chief of the National Guard; you conduct memorial services in memory of those who turned their weapons against Democracy and the Rule of Law. What are you doing, paying tribute to the heroes of the Cypriot tragedy?


It is July. Memories awaken. Not that they have been diluted by time, since everything around remind us of that tragic summer in 1974. The mother wearing black kerchief, holding the missing person’s picture, her face lined by pain and suffering, hundreds of enclaved people, staying behind to guard Thermopylae, the flag-disgrace in Pentadactylos mountain. To all, constant reminders of the betrayal and disaster.

It is our duty to remember, for people with no memory have no future. Besides, what would guide us to avoid the same tragedies? Oblivion, in the name of the so-called unity, has been governmental policy for the last ten years. As if it could erase the heroes of that tragedy, who rest in the Pantheon. As if they could write off the greatness of their sacrifice. We know how to forgive, but we demand respect for the historical truth and recognition of our heroes’ sacrifice and greatness. Memory is always alive, yearning for vindication. Isn’t showing the way to those left behind, to guide and inspire them actually the destiny of all those passing away early?

On July 17th, Cypriot united, with sole exception the party with the sinful past, will honor all those who defended Democracy and the Rule of Law, fought for the Freedom and Independence of their country. Our people, sending a unity message, declare its will to solve the Cyprus issue, reunify the country and establish it as single home of Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots.

The excuse made by the Democratic Coalition for not joining the rally of memory and honor, the rally organized to condemn the double crime committed against Cyprus, failed to convince. If actions which remind us of our duties towards the next generations and honor our heroes are described as reopening of old wounds with the Turkish Cypriots, then what else but reopening of such wounds for all Cypriots has been the policy that DISY has followed ever since its foundation. Where have the people responsible for the disaster found shelter? Who ‘vindicated’, and when the ‘65’? Which party, despite being the government, has never attended the rally of memory and honor the last ten years?

You are right, you gentlemen of DISY. There is no room for you in this rally. You are massively ‘present’ at the annual memorial service of Cyprus’ destroyer, you ask to exonerate Grivas as chief of the National Guard; you conduct memorial services in memory of those who turned their weapons against Democracy and the Rule of Law. What are you doing, paying tribute to the heroes of the Cypriot tragedy?




Reminding the Role of the Right Is Annoying
2003-12-09 | Ηaravgi | ΓιώÏ￾γος ΧÏ￾ιστοδουλίδης

The statements of the House President Demetris Chrystofias annoyed the President of the right wing party DISY Nicos Anastasiades. Mr. Chrystofias speaking on the occasion of the Day of Memory and Honor of Resistance Fighters outlined that the Right, thus Grivas and EOKA B, had committed crimes at the expense of the country. As Mr. Chrystofias pointed out among others, “under no circumstances, could that treason be compared to any mistake possibly made in those very difficult years. No mistake could be equated with those crimesâ€￾.

Invited to comment on the references of the House President to history, Mr. Anastasiades described them as “divisiveâ€￾ and claimed: “any party is entitled to its opinion and the State to choose which days to honor all those who have fought for freedom and democracy, but using History as a means for national division is huge mistakeâ€￾.

Mr. Demetris Chrystofias making statements yesterday in Astra radio station criticized those who were annoyed by the decision of the House to establish December 7th, the day that Makarios returned in Cyprus after the tragic events that occurred in July, as day in the memory of resistance fighters. “If they mean what they say about devotion to the Republic, they should welcome the establishment of that day, in the honor of all people who have resisted and in the honor of Makarios, who was the symbol of the resistance. Finally, schools should teach who brought disaster to the countryâ€￾, he highlighted.

On his part, the Education Minister Pefkios Georgiades pointed out that day would teach the democratic institution to the Cypriot children. “That presupposes democratic citizensâ€￾, he said. However, the education committees belonging to the party DISY, “Changeâ€￾ and “PADEDâ€￾, opposed the establishment of the particular anniversary, but the party leadership avoided to take position, at least in public.





Remembering the past
2003-08-12 | Ηaravgi | Α. Πανάτου

Days of memory and honor

It’s a fact. The months of July and August are associated with EOKA-B, the Greek Junta, the wretched military coup and the barbaric invasion of the Turkish establishment in Cyprus, assisted by the CIA and Kissinger.



Thank God, we managed to call somebody by his name. We should call a spade a spade, starting with the wretched defectors of the Union of the Center (Enosi Kentrou), Garoufalias, Mitsotakis, Stefanopoulos, Tsirimokos and their co-conspirators, Queen Frederika and former King Konstantinos, the perjurers of the Junta, Papadopoulos, Patakos, Ioannides, and their collaborators in Cyprus, with Grivas as their ringleader.

The list of names in Cyprus remains long and unpronounceable until today. As a result, it is the organizers of the coup who raise their voices to silence the resistants. Silence, for the sake of supposed peace leads to the other end, covering up the insolent culprits. For lack of honors, resistance falls into oblivion, and chances are that it may be needed again.

August is also marked by the death of the great leader of the resistance, Ethnarch Makarios. It was a right thing to change the name of these events from “black anniversariesâ€￾ to “days of memory and honor.â€￾ The unforgettable dictator Metaxas also emerged in August. He was thrown in the trashcan of history for laying the first stone for fascist nationalism with the terrible consequences. Who is honoring Metaxas today? Not a soul. His name is gone from the squares and the streets and Metaxa Square in Nicosia became Eleftherias Square. May the trespassers of democracy have the same fate.

While there are still some people who keep honoring the ringleaders of the coup, dead or living, with words and deeds, this results in the falsification of history and in pathetic examples for imitation, as was the case of Metaxas.

Some people may rush to name this reference as “looking back into the past,â€￾ but according to the poet Yiannis Ritsos, “we should at any moment take back the past and preview the future to conquer the present.â€￾ Some people are trying to find excuses for the inexcusable and go back to the epic of ’21 and to our illustrious ancestors. They don’t regard this as looking back into the past and they even rush to cover up the recent doings of their idols, saying that posterity will judge those facts later on. Otherwise, Alkiviades would still be a hero and Petain in France would have been an ethnarch instead of a traitor heading for the gallows.

Another aspect of looking back into the past is the Greek-Christian ideals enlightening all Europe and a great part of the world. Surely, their correct version and perception supported and still supports mankind. But what kind of support did these distorted Greek-Christian ideals offer, in the hands of vicious emperors, dictators, at the time of the Holy Inquisition and of the Crusades, in the hands of Metaxas, of the Palace, of the Junta, of the fascist nationalism and of the EOKA-B?

In this case of self-interested fanatics manipulating the past, rational human beings are needed to adopt the ideas and materialize them. God help those who turn a blind eye or do evil consciously, subconsciously or unconsciously.



The answer of why AKEL keep itself quite on some national issues stated here:

The list of names in Cyprus remains long and unpronounceable until today. As a result, it is the organizers of the coup who raise their voices to silence the resistants. Silence, for the sake of supposed peace leads to the other end, covering up the insolent culprits. For lack of honors, resistance falls into oblivion, and chances are that it may be needed again.




Ps: Sorry for the long quotations but they are very important to understand the essentials of the Cyprus problem and role of its actors...
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Postby mehmet » Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:31 pm

So if you are going to say that "EOKA = Bad" it will be equal as to saying that "90% of GC = Bad". I am sure you don't want to do that.[/quote]

Yes, I am saying EOKA is bad, no I am not saying 90% of Greek Cypriots are bad. As the statistics stated previoulsy confirmed, Greek Cypriots suffered from EOKA more than Turkish Cypriots.

If you expect any Turkish Cypriot to think EOKA was good you might have a long wait.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:47 pm

ok guys, I have no time to read copy-paste documents of 1000 lines right now, maybe later.

I am happy for you that you can agree on everything. When TCs realize that agreeing with a small minority of GC like Bananiot will do them no good and will lead nowhere then we can talk again.
If you want to create your own little fake history and be happy about it, go ahead - again it will do you no good.

The decision belongs to the people. Have a nice day.
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Postby mehmet » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:45 pm

According to your version of history, EOKA are heroes with a just cause. and the sooner the rest of us all realise it the sooner we will come to an agreement. I would rather be in disagreement perpetually, Ultimately it would be better to make peace without you or not at all. When you start to realise that Turkish Cypriots are not an inconveniance to your dreams let us know then we can talk.
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Postby insan » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:54 pm

ok guys, I have no time to read copy-paste documents of 1000 lines right now, maybe later.


You should be more open minded piratis... we are discussing here with all of our good will and trying to share what we have...

People read articles and if they wish to share it with their friends and debaters; they give a copy of those articles to them ...

We are free to share what we have.. It can be either our opinions, views, claims or others articles...

You read or don't read, it's up to you... Don't tell me that you don't have time to read 1000 lines of copied and pasted articles...


I don't care if you have no time to read them or any other articles.. it's your problem... They are not especially put there for you...

This is a discussion board where we share, exchange views...

Ok?
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:58 pm

The cause was just, and it was supported by the great majority of GC. I didn't say that all EOKA fighters or members were heroes though.

When you start to realize that Turkish Cypriots are not an inconvenience to your dreams let us know then we can talk.


My dream is to live in a democratic, independent, united Cyprus where human rights of everybody are respected. Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots that support the occupation are a lot more than just an "inconvenience" for those dreams.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:11 pm

Ok?


Sure, as I said copy paste whatever you feel like and then find that 3% of GC to agree with you and you will all be happy about it. No problem.
But remember: When the only ones left discussing are TCs and GCs like Bananiot, do not make the mistake to think that you found an agreement with GCs. That will be only an illusion, and sooner or later you will realize that you were just wasting your time.
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Postby mehmet » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:29 pm

The justice of any cause cannot be considered without reference to the conduct of those that carry out actions in favour of that cause. The deaths of so many people carried out by EOKA affected the politics of this island. You cannot consider the partition of this island without referece to the sequence of events tha led to partition. If you believe the events of 1974 and the actions of Turkey to be the only injustice that needs addressing then we will get nowhere. Even if you were not around to witness events yourself you must know people who do, you must be able to have access to information that clarifies things you are not sure of because you were not there yourself.

Turkish Cypriots will make their choices according to what is available. You can call it what you like but Papadopoulos has nothing to offer.
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Postby metecyp » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:50 am

The cause was just, and it was supported by the great majority of GC. I didn't say that all EOKA fighters or members were heroes though.

I can't believe that there are people who still think that EOKA cause was just. How was it just? Was it just because the majority supported? The majority support is the only criterion for some cause to be just?

You must be blind not to realize the suffering and destruction this so called "just cause" caused. Even if we accept that it was a just cause, what's the worth of its being just when it caused so much suffering to TCs and GCs alike?

According to your logic, Taksim must be a just cause as well. After alll, TCs did not ask for the whole island with Taksim. They just asked for a part of it to unite with Turkey in order not to suffer the consequences of Enosis. It was more out of the necessity, right? And it was supported by most TCs at some point. Now this makes it just?

Cyprus problem will be solved when we realize the mistakes of the past. Both Enosis and Taksim brought nothing but destruction to the island and they should never be related to anything positive. I don't care how just Enosis was or how necessary Taksim was. All I care is how many people sufferred because of these ideologies and make sure that the fanatics on both sides can never impose their stupidity on ordinary people of Cyprus.
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Postby Bananiot » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:21 pm

I agree entirely with the above and I breath a deep sigh of relief when I realise that there are people who have not condemned common sense. May be there is still hope for this unfortunate corner of the world.

Coming back to AKEL, as it was said earlier, despite opposing Makarios strongly in the 1st presidential elections, AKEL very soon took Makarios under its wings and the feeling was mutual. AKEL gave total support to Makarios without questioning one iota of his wisdom, declaring him an ethnarch. Makarios, who was naturally anti-communist, returned the favour by sparing AKEL from ideological attacks. So, AKEL slowly started coming into the enosis camp and openly declared its position for enosis. This alienated many (probably all its TC members) and the now worshiped Kavazoglu was nothing but a thorn in its flesh at the time. Only when the damage was done, that is in 1964, did AKEL return to the independent state theory, but again, it was after Makarios dropped the cause of enosis, realising at long last that he played with fire.

The turn by Makarios infuriated Grivas and the rest of the extreme right (even if they command the majority they are extremists my friend Piratis, and your notion of democracy and human rights is strange to say the least) and this eventually led to EOKA B which took over the struggle for enosis.

Along with the Greek junta, the terrorist organisation tried three times to assasinate Makarios but again, let's look at AKEL. During the junta years it still tried to maintain good relations with the colonels, and high above the main wall of Omonoia football club, the portrait of the greek minister of sport was to be seen. That was during the junta epoch.
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