Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Give it up gardash. Talking to these misantrhopists is a waste of time.

we already solved the problem Gardash ..... The solution of the Buyuk han

our parliment is established too .....

....and the names of the ministers are.........................?

[Gregory]

Give it up gardash. Talking to these misantrhopists is a waste of time.

we already solved the problem Gardash ..... The solution of the Buyuk han

our parliment is established too .....

....and the names of the ministers are.........................?

Who's the stocky one?

[halil]

Give it up gardash. Talking to these misantrhopists is a waste of time.

we already solved the problem Gardash ..... The solution of the Buyuk han

our parliment is established too .....

President : Suleyman Bey
Vise president:Haci Andreas
Finance :Hasan Cirakli
Defance:Micheal
Interior:Tania
Culture:halil
Education:bananiot
Foregine:Erol Bey
Economy:Costas
Tourism: Lisa

garantor of the new Federal republic is ALexander Downer.



....and the names of the ministers are.........................?

[Tim Drayton]

Give it up gardash. Talking to these misantrhopists is a waste of time.

we already solved the problem Gardash ..... The solution of the Buyuk han

our parliment is established too .....

Is that Downer in the middle wearing sunglasses? Surely not!

[halil]

Give it up gardash. Talking to these misantrhopists is a waste of time.

we already solved the problem Gardash ..... The solution of the Buyuk han

our parliment is established too .....

Is that Downer in the middle wearing sunglasses? Surely not!

yes Tim....

[BirKibrisli]

Give it up gardash. Talking to these misantrhopists is a waste of time.

we already solved the problem Gardash ..... The solution of the Buyuk han

our parliment is established too .....

President : Suleyman Bey
Vise president:Haci Andreas
Finance :Hasan Cirakli
Defance:Micheal
Interior:Tania
Culture:halil
Education:bananiot
Foregine:Erol Bey
Economy:Costas
Tourism: Lisa

garantor of the new Federal republic is ALexander Downer.



....and the names of the ministers are.........................?

Vow...Is it really Downer in the picture???

I was once working for a TV station, Halil...Our special guest was Alexander Downer,and the day we taped the show was 15 February...It was my birthday that day and he crew had a cake in the green room for me...When Downer came he was very surprised,he thought the cake was for him because he was born on that day too...We soon find out the year of our births was also the same...I wonder if he remembers that day!

[Oracle]

..The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

Bir, would you explain what you mean by "the process" which was strangled in 1963?

Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

Or, do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

If you took your blinkers off and considered my whole post,you'd know what I meant...

...But the majority of the settlers need to be repatriated after a solution to give the Cypriots a real chance of building their own nation...The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

The process was Cypriots building their own nation....After an eternity ,Cypriots had a chance to become an independent nation...But they had their own agendas...And guess which came first???? yep,the GC dream of Enosis with Greece....Would you accept that as fact or would you like proof of that too???

I saw the whole phrase ... I reduced it to component parts for clarification.

So, would you please answer which of these two possible processes you meant for 1963 onwards (forget "dreams") was responsible for strangling the Cypriot nation's future ...


(1) Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

(2) Do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

Which of those two processes would have "strangled" the chance of Cypriots building their own nation?

None of the above...But there are 2 other processes which put an end to the dream of building a unique nation....

1...The greed which made Makarios not satisfied with sharing 70-30 the executive power with Turkish Cypriots in 1963....

2...The stupidity which made Sampson attempt his coup to bring about ENOSIS with Greece by force of arms in 1974....

I can think of others,but these 2 will do for now...

Take your pick....

You were talking about processes which strangled the future of Cypriots back in 1963 ... So, why did you now introduce something from 1974?

If you stop using words from your imagination ("greed") and look at some facts, then you may manage an honest answer and stop kidding yourself, and us, about what you really believe.

You are struggling to admit that it is the Process of Democratisation which you believe strangled Cyprus. And, by also refusing to admit 'strangulation' had anything to do with the TC/TMT efforts to bring about partition then you have allied yourself with all the other TC partitionists.

Keep your heart and your mind shut to the TC pain and loss and soon,Oracle,you will be living in a democratic country talking about the human rights of the majority in Cyprus,the settlers from Anatolia...
And you will rue the day you were not satisfied with sharing political power with the TCs 70-30 (Veto or no veto),back in the good old days of 60-63....

Unlike you I am not a racist.

The 70,000 can be Anatolians or TCs ... I do not care.

Just so long as they respect democracy, Human Rights and are allied to the RoC and not Turkey.

Would you be upset if some of those Anatolians were rather more "impressive" and, eventually, patriotic to Cyprus, more so than you TCs, they are replacing, have ever been?

[halil]

Give it up gardash. Talking to these misantrhopists is a waste of time.

we already solved the problem Gardash ..... The solution of the Buyuk han

our parliment is established too .....

President : Suleyman Bey
Vise president:Haci Andreas
Finance :Hasan Cirakli
Defance:Micheal
Interior:Tania
Culture:halil
Education:bananiot
Foregine:Erol Bey
Economy:Costas
Tourism: Lisa

garantor of the new Federal republic is ALexander Downer.



....and the names of the ministers are.........................?

Vow...Is it really Downer in the picture???

I was once working for a TV station, Halil...Our special guest was Alexander Downer,and the day we taped the show was 15 February...It was my birthday that day and he crew had a cake in the green room for me...When Downer came he was very surprised,he thought the cake was for him because he was born on that day too...We soon find out the year of our births was also the same...I wonder if he remembers that day!

I will ask him at our next cabinet meeting ....... he is a nice gentelman.He knows very well Bir.what happened in 60's....63's....67 ....68 and 74 up to now . He is very balanced .

Bir one thing is with this UN and EU diplomats .They are always with public and they listens what the public says as well . Lots of the are around in the streets of the Cyprus .Mixing with locals and getting their own ideas as well . Also they visits all the political parties and civilian organisations too .

[halil]

here is the Yusuf Kanli article for Cyprus package

Monday, January 11, 2010
YUSUF KANLI
A day after the Greek Cypriot National Council – composed of the president and leaders of all political parties represented in the House of Representatives – flatly rejected a set of proposals regarding the “Governance and power sharing” chapter, Turkish Cypriot President Mehmet Ali Talat and his Greek Cypriot counterpart Dimitris Christofias launched the first round of three-day intensified talks yesterday. The second round will be held between Jan. 25-27. In this first round, the leaders will be focusing on power-sharing under a future federal structure, the economy and European Union matters.

What were the fundamental elements of the plan? First of all, like the entire process, the set of offers was built on a “nothing is agreed unless everything is agreed” principle “with an integrated whole approach,” yet negotiable as long as “the internal balance” of the package was not compromised. That was, naturally a constructive approach aimed at triggering a meaningful give-and-take.

Of the 10 offers included in the package, nine of them might have been endorsed by all Turkish Cypriots irrespective of political standing. But, as regards the first proposal – that contained a cross-voting scheme for the election of the president and the vice president (each coming from different communities) of the future federal republic as well as a five-year presidential term on the basis of rotation between a Greek Cypriot and a Turkish Cypriot in a ratio of three years to two years, the creation of an 12-member Cabinet [as opposed to earlier Greek Cypriot demands for a nine-member Cabinet, three Turkish Cypriots and six Greek Cypriots], five members coming from Turkish Cypriot community and on the condition that the foreign minister and the EU affairs minister; the finance minister and the interior minister; and the natural resources minister and the transportation minister shall never come from the same constituent state – there was a marked deviation from the established parameters of the Turkish Cypriot approach to a settlement on the island. With this offer, the Turkish Cypriot side gave a strong signal to the Greek Cypriot side that it may compromise from its established position that the new partnership state on the island would be the common state of the existing two communities, two democracies, two cultures and two religions on the basis of political equality.

As this offer was nothing further than a revised version of an earlier suggestion by Greek Cypriot President Christofias, I would assume that this was not the reason why Greek Cypriot National Council decided Sunday to reject the package. Yet, the last paragraph of this proposal was stressing that the “concurrent favorable vote of both the president and the vice president shall be required” for the Cabinet to adopt a decision. That, effectively, was introducing a veto mechanism, like the 1960 system. This, indeed, was the sole sentence that the Eroğlu government was happy with in this proposal regarding the “executive” in Talat’s latest set of proposals, but since Greek Cypriots collapsed the 1960 republic among some other reasons because of the veto power of the Turkish Cypriot vice president, probably this was one of the main reasons of the Greek Cypriot “Oxi” to the package.

The second item in the Turkish Cypriot set of proposals was regarding the legislature of the future federation. The proposal underlined that while representation in the senate will be on a communal basis, at the House of Representatives representation will be on the basis of “internal citizenship status.” Thus, a Greek Cypriot who might reside in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state will not be able to be elected either to the Senate or the House from the Turkish Cypriot contingencies. Furthermore, the proposal underlines that there will always be at least one-fourth representation of each of the two constituent states in the House where decisions will be made with simple majority, provided a minimum of one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two states vote affirmatively. At the Senate, however a qualified vote [two-fifths of sitting Senators from each constituent state, in addition to a simple majority of deputies present and voting including one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two federated states] will be required in legislating laws in certain areas [such as internal security, federal finance, taxation and foreign relations] to be specified in the federal constitution.

If the 1960 agreement was an “effective federation” because of similar qualified vote arrangements in favor of Turkish Cypriots, naturally Greek Cypriots were right in complaining that the arrangements explained above were describing a confederation not a federation or elements that will add a federation some confederal components.

I will continue tomorrow with other elements in the Turkish Cypriot package.

[denizaksulu]

Give it up gardash. Talking to these misantrhopists is a waste of time.

we already solved the problem Gardash ..... The solution of the Buyuk han

our parliment is established too .....

....and the names of the ministers are.........................?

Who's the stocky one?

Mr BAYRAK, BROTHER HALIL