Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

..The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

Bir, would you explain what you mean by "the process" which was strangled in 1963?

Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

Or, do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

[Nikitas]

Expatkiwi said:

"Voters should be restricted to those born IN Cyprus before 1974, and open to the disapora. That way, no migrant mess..."

And that is a valid starting point in solving the settler question and the counteraccusations and debate about Pontians etc.

It is is also helpful here to keep in mind that BBF is a MAJOR victory for the TC side and just as major defeat for GCs.

We do not know how the system will work in the long run. I have noted my thoughts that such a mechanistic and artificial division will not prove functional and that separation cannot be maintained for long. People will gravitate to the economically viable areas of the island regardless of bizonality and bicommunality.

But for the start, the foundation of the new system, it is vital that it should not contain any element of humiliation of either partner. Allowing foreigners to vote in the plebiscites that will found the new system is a humiliating action. It is humiliating for both of the major communities of Cyprus and it is surprising that some people cannot see it this way.

[Nikitas]

This is from today's article by Sener LEvent in Politis paper:

"Turkey has not made this proposal so that it can be accepted by the GC side. Obviously it knows that it will be rejected. What crazy GC would accept for a population of 75 million to come to the island. Is there such a crazy man in the south? Is there a GC leader who would want to see a road built which would connect Larnaca to Antalia?"

[Oracle]

Expatkiwi said:

"Voters should be restricted to those born IN Cyprus before 1974, and open to the disapora. That way, no migrant mess..."

And that is a valid starting point in solving the settler question and the counteraccusations and debate about Pontians etc. .

However, Expatkiwi was talking about voting rights within his formally recognised "trnc".

[BirKibrisli]

..The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

Bir, would you explain what you mean by "the process" which was strangled in 1963?

Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

Or, do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

If you took your blinkers off and considered my whole post,you'd know what I meant...

...But the majority of the settlers need to be repatriated after a solution to give the Cypriots a real chance of building their own nation...The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

The process was Cypriots building their own nation....After an eternity ,Cypriots had a chance to become an independent nation...But they had their own agendas...And guess which came first???? yep,the GC dream of Enosis with Greece....Would you accept that as fact or would you like proof of that too???

[Oracle]

..The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

Bir, would you explain what you mean by "the process" which was strangled in 1963?

Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

Or, do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

If you took your blinkers off and considered my whole post,you'd know what I meant...

...But the majority of the settlers need to be repatriated after a solution to give the Cypriots a real chance of building their own nation...The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

The process was Cypriots building their own nation....After an eternity ,Cypriots had a chance to become an independent nation...But they had their own agendas...And guess which came first???? yep,the GC dream of Enosis with Greece....Would you accept that as fact or would you like proof of that too???

I saw the whole phrase ... I reduced it to component parts for clarification.

So, would you please answer which of these two possible processes you meant for 1963 onwards (forget "dreams") was responsible for strangling the Cypriot nation's future ...


(1) Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

(2) Do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

Which of those two processes would have "strangled" the chance of Cypriots building their own nation?

[BirKibrisli]

..The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

Bir, would you explain what you mean by "the process" which was strangled in 1963?

Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

Or, do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

If you took your blinkers off and considered my whole post,you'd know what I meant...

...But the majority of the settlers need to be repatriated after a solution to give the Cypriots a real chance of building their own nation...The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

The process was Cypriots building their own nation....After an eternity ,Cypriots had a chance to become an independent nation...But they had their own agendas...And guess which came first???? yep,the GC dream of Enosis with Greece....Would you accept that as fact or would you like proof of that too???

I saw the whole phrase ... I reduced it to component parts for clarification.

So, would you please answer which of these two possible processes you meant for 1963 onwards (forget "dreams") was responsible for strangling the Cypriot nation's future ...


(1) Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

(2) Do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

Which of those two processes would have "strangled" the chance of Cypriots building their own nation?

None of the above...But there are 2 other processes which put an end to the dream of building a unique nation....

1...The greed which made Makarios not satisfied with sharing 70-30 the executive power with Turkish Cypriots in 1963....

2...The stupidity which made Sampson attempt his coup to bring about ENOSIS with Greece by force of arms in 1974....

I can think of others,but these 2 will do for now...

Take your pick....

[Oracle]

..The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

Bir, would you explain what you mean by "the process" which was strangled in 1963?

Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

Or, do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

If you took your blinkers off and considered my whole post,you'd know what I meant...

...But the majority of the settlers need to be repatriated after a solution to give the Cypriots a real chance of building their own nation...The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

The process was Cypriots building their own nation....After an eternity ,Cypriots had a chance to become an independent nation...But they had their own agendas...And guess which came first???? yep,the GC dream of Enosis with Greece....Would you accept that as fact or would you like proof of that too???

I saw the whole phrase ... I reduced it to component parts for clarification.

So, would you please answer which of these two possible processes you meant for 1963 onwards (forget "dreams") was responsible for strangling the Cypriot nation's future ...


(1) Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

(2) Do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

Which of those two processes would have "strangled" the chance of Cypriots building their own nation?

None of the above...But there are 2 other processes which put an end to the dream of building a unique nation....

1...The greed which made Makarios not satisfied with sharing 70-30 the executive power with Turkish Cypriots in 1963....

2...The stupidity which made Sampson attempt his coup to bring about ENOSIS with Greece by force of arms in 1974....

I can think of others,but these 2 will do for now...

Take your pick....

You were talking about processes which strangled the future of Cypriots back in 1963 ... So, why did you now introduce something from 1974?

If you stop using words from your imagination ("greed") and look at some facts, then you may manage an honest answer and stop kidding yourself, and us, about what you really believe.

You are struggling to admit that it is the Process of Democratisation which you believe strangled Cyprus. And, by also refusing to admit 'strangulation' had anything to do with the TC/TMT efforts to bring about partition then you have allied yourself with all the other TC partitionists.

[EPSILON]

..The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

Bir, would you explain what you mean by "the process" which was strangled in 1963?

Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

Or, do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

If you took your blinkers off and considered my whole post,you'd know what I meant...

...But the majority of the settlers need to be repatriated after a solution to give the Cypriots a real chance of building their own nation...The process which was strangled at birth in 1963...

The process was Cypriots building their own nation....After an eternity ,Cypriots had a chance to become an independent nation...But they had their own agendas...And guess which came first???? yep,the GC dream of Enosis with Greece....Would you accept that as fact or would you like proof of that too???

I saw the whole phrase ... I reduced it to component parts for clarification.

So, would you please answer which of these two possible processes you meant for 1963 onwards (forget "dreams") was responsible for strangling the Cypriot nation's future ...


(1) Do you mean the process of democratisation where TCs and GCs (etc) were to have equal voting power and no forced GC/TC President/Vice positions?

(2) Do you mean the process which was started by the TCs/TMT to partition the island into a 'TC state' and a 'GC state'?

Which of those two processes would have "strangled" the chance of Cypriots building their own nation?

None of the above...But there are 2 other processes which put an end to the dream of building a unique nation....

1...The greed which made Makarios not satisfied with sharing 70-30 the executive power with Turkish Cypriots in 1963....

2...The stupidity which made Sampson attempt his coup to bring about ENOSIS with Greece by force of arms in 1974....

I can think of others,but these 2 will do for now...

Take your pick....

You were talking about processes which strangled the future of Cypriots back in 1963 ... So, why did you now introduce something from 1974?

If you stop using words from your imagination ("greed") and look at some facts, then you may manage an honest answer and stop kidding yourself, and us, about what you really believe.

You are struggling to admit that it is the Process of Democratisation which you believe strangled Cyprus. And, by also refusing to admit 'strangulation' had anything to do with the TC/TMT efforts to bring about partition then you have allied yourself with all the other TC partitionists.

Dear Oracle, after 36 years Mapet show in CB you and all of us should understand that there is only one solution- There are no Turkish , T/cs rights in Cyprus, there are only Cyprus initial population rights/.Get all foregners including T/cs out of Cyprus, there are bad foot in the stomach-Cyprus belong to its original habitantss-GREEKS OF CYPRUS

[DT.]

None of the above...But there are 2 other processes which put an end to the dream of building a unique nation....

1...The greed which made Makarios not satisfied with sharing 70-30 the executive power with Turkish Cypriots in 1963....

2...The stupidity which made Sampson attempt his coup to bring about ENOSIS with Greece by force of arms in 1974....

I can think of others,but these 2 will do for now...

Take your pick....

2 corrections here Bir,

1) Wasn't about greed, state was paralysed and pennyless. Something had to be done. He took the wrong/right decision. Fact is though that things couldn't remain as they were.
2) Sampson didn't attempt any coups. He was the 3rd choice of the Athens Junta after Clerides and (forgot the 2nd) declined. The coup was a purely Greek affair with Greek officers backed by treasonous Eoka B GC's.